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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Single Shots & Combination Guns
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Mark_Dube
.224 member


Reged: 04/01/06
Posts: 49
Loc: Ontario, Canada
I'm feeling creative (talk some sense into me)
      #148566 - 22/12/09 07:27 AM

I have this very pretty little J. Blanch & Sons London single barreled hammer shotgun, it's a 16 with 28" barrels & weighs 5 lbs. BUT, the barrels are shot.

I'm considering building a single shot stalking rifle, 20 bore or 500-577 BPE class, I'd like to retain the damascus pattern on the barrel.

Anybody been there & done that?

Any input is appreciated.





--------------------
Mark

Edited by Mark_Dube (23/12/09 02:34 AM)

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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: I'm feeling creative (talk some sense into me) [Re: Mark_Dube]
      #148567 - 22/12/09 07:45 AM

Mark-


What exactly do you mean when you say that the bore is shot?
Do you know the minimum wall thickness of that barrel?
Do you know what the bore diameter is of that barrel?
What are the chamber specs?
What is the barrel outside diameter where your bore measurements are?
The reason I ask is that our friend Steve (bouldersmith here on the site) represents Teague - and can get you set up with a full-length sleeve/line job - and you could continue to use the gun as a shotgun OR a smooth-bore roundball rifle (if there's enough meat where it counts...)


Start there, then we can continue this counseling session!



Sweet gun by the way.
I'd definitely be proud to have it myself!
I can see why you would want to preserve the external contour and continuity of that damascus barrel.





Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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Mark_Dube
.224 member


Reged: 04/01/06
Posts: 49
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: I'm feeling creative (talk some sense into me) [Re: tinker]
      #148639 - 23/12/09 05:49 AM

Tinker,

I mean I've never seen a rougher bore on a shotgun ever, & I'm primarily a vintage sxs guy.

Some pits are so big & so deep that my skeets bore gauge gets hung up.

Nominal bore is 0.665"
There is no choke whatsoever
Chamber is very nearly 2 3/4"
minimal wall thickness seems to be a healthy 0.040, but that excludes pits as the "ball" on the inside arm of my wall thickness gauge is too large to sink into the pits.

I've weighed it on a proper scale & actual weight is just less than 4lb 12oz

Obviously I will need to hone it whatever the decision is, so I will go slow & measure & watch & maybe it will clean up within my comfort parameters (but I'd bet against it).

I'm leaning towards a 577 BPE, my thinking being the larger the new bore the better the weight & balance of the gun might be maintained.

I'd like a 20 bore rifle (slug gun) for some of the areas I hunt deer, but the gun may be a tad light for that.

Thanks for your input.

Edited by Mark_Dube (23/12/09 05:52 AM)

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peter
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Reged: 11/04/07
Posts: 1493
Loc: denmark
Re: I'm feeling creative (talk some sense into me) [Re: Mark_Dube]
      #148641 - 23/12/09 06:34 AM

mark

i have a couple of those guns as well (neat little gun ) the weight issue will take you into painfull expirences if you try to go down the 577 route, i think the recoil will be to much both for your body and for the wrist area in the gun.
i think a 20 bore rifle sleve job would be the answer and then make it a 2,5-3 drams load and a round ball, you could actually short chamber it, in case you sell it no sad soul will blow themself up by putting a high energy round in it.
just keep the loads on the light side and you have a stalking rifle to die for.

best

peter

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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: I'm feeling creative (talk some sense into me) [Re: peter]
      #148644 - 23/12/09 07:02 AM

Mark -


Peter makes some good sense on the weight issues...

But my sense tells me this sweet little 16-bore is just too far gone and you need to dispose of it immediately.
I know how hard it is to hear this, and I can imagine how hard it will be on you to do so - to help you through this time of severance I will build a crate for the gun and send it to you with return postage and insurance pre-paid.

Check your mailbox for my request of shipping information.
I promise to act fast and minimize your distress in this holiday season.

I suggest you tuck it back in the safe until the crate arrives, get one of your .22 rifles out and punish some tin-cans out in the back 40 in the meantime.





Seriously - it looks like you have your situation pretty well handled.
Full-lengh line-job to 20-bore rifle sounds like a great idea, the only challenge for you will be to find a proper barrel-blank for roundball!




Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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DarylS
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Posts: 27014
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: I'm feeling creative (talk some sense into me) [Re: peter]
      #148708 - 24/12/09 02:48 AM

Quote:

mark

i have a couple of those guns as well (neat little gun ) the weight issue will take you into painfull expirences if you try to go down the 577 route, i think the recoil will be to much both for your body and for the wrist area in the gun.
i think a 20 bore rifle sleve job would be the answer and then make it a 2,5-3 drams load and a round ball, you could actually short chamber it, in case you sell it no sad soul will blow themself up by putting a high energy round in it.
just keep the loads on the light side and you have a stalking rifle to die for.

best

peter



I am in full agreement with Peter on the rifled 20 bore - or perhaps rifled 24 bore? I think 24 bore cases are available - somewhere.

The rifle is to 'fine' as in light, to go with a BPE. I am certain the stock would break through the wrist. What a sad thing that would be.

By the way - it would be easier to ship this gun to my cousin in Clinton, Ontario to hold for me (be there next summer) - forget about the headaches of sending it to Tinker.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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450_366
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Reged: 17/01/07
Posts: 1068
Loc: Sweden, west-coast.
Re: I'm feeling creative (talk some sense into me) [Re: DarylS]
      #148712 - 24/12/09 03:05 AM

I would take a rifled 20 bore barrel for a pump or semi and turn it down to fit inside the old one.
That is if i could get one thats thick enough and has a proper twist for ball.

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: I'm feeling creative (talk some sense into me) [Re: 450_366]
      #148714 - 24/12/09 03:19 AM

Andreas-


Barrel-length is going to be one issue there, pump and auto will have short tubes, also the autos will have gas-vents drilled in them at some place.
Also, most everything out there is set up for sub-caliber sabot ammunition - with fast twist.

There are likely properly bored muzzle loader barrels with the right twist that could be contoured and sleeved in as full-length liners, or one could be bored and rifled by one of a handful of US barrel makers.




Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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450_366
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Reged: 17/01/07
Posts: 1068
Loc: Sweden, west-coast.
Re: I'm feeling creative (talk some sense into me) [Re: tinker]
      #148719 - 24/12/09 03:43 AM

Quote:

Andreas-


Barrel-length is going to be one issue there, pump and auto will have short tubes, also the autos will have gas-vents drilled in them at some place.
Also, most everything out there is set up for sub-caliber sabot ammunition - with fast twist.

There are likely properly bored muzzle loader barrels with the right twist that could be contoured and sleeved in as full-length liners, or one could be bored and rifled by one of a handful of US barrel makers.




Cheers
Tinker



Yeas off course, the lenght would as usuall would be a problem
But i would shorten the original a bit anyway if it was mine, but if there are only rapid twisted to get i wouldnt matter.

Here around there are almost no production of barrels, there is one guy that makes them but i havent got the contcts for him so thats as good as nothing.

But any ml builder shoul be able to supply a blank.

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

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Mark_Dube
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Reged: 04/01/06
Posts: 49
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: I'm feeling creative (talk some sense into me) [Re: 450_366]
      #148722 - 24/12/09 04:21 AM

Thanks Guys,

How about a 577 Snyder? Lots of components etc. in my part of the world, & I think that's 24 bore.....

--------------------
Mark

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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: I'm feeling creative (talk some sense into me) [Re: Mark_Dube]
      #148724 - 24/12/09 04:35 AM

Mark-


The light weight of this gun is a fair bit of what makes it such a sweet-looking project (to me)


A light-charge (short chamber, as Peter said) 20-bore would be sweet.
Plenty of power (even at 2-1/2 drams) to kill deer and elk, it'd make a sweet and handy stalking rifle, and the outside diameter of the barrel wouldn't 'look out of place' in relation to the bore diameter.


Snyder - my concern would be the resulting weight of the rifle once you got that 577 barrel tucked in there.
The barrel-blank *could* be turned thin-wall between the chamber and the muzzle to save weight, you'd want at least a partial section of full-bore (to the shotgun tube) somewhere in the middle to keep stress low at the muzzle...


If that existing tube was really done, with no hope for service - I'd go 20-bore if I could.







Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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peter
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Reged: 11/04/07
Posts: 1493
Loc: denmark
Re: I'm feeling creative (talk some sense into me) [Re: Mark_Dube]
      #148731 - 24/12/09 07:38 AM

Quote:

Thanks Guys,

How about a 577 Snyder? Lots of components etc. in my part of the world, & I think that's 24 bore.....



mark

i still think that the snyder would be to much for the wrist area, imo stay withinn the bore rifle range and make it a low recoil load as these guns are really not up for to much play in the force department.
i have 2 20 bore guns in the same configuration, they actually smart a bit when fired with normal 20 gauge shells, so be carefull and if you have your heart set on a 577 go for a full restock as i really dont want to see you hurt, the action is strong but stock in the hand area is not.

best

peter

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Bramble
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Reged: 29/07/06
Posts: 950
Loc: England
Re: I'm feeling creative (talk some sense into me) [Re: peter]
      #148741 - 24/12/09 10:56 AM

If I May profer my opinion.

As She is a single shot anyway, consider having a 30 cal barrel turned up so that the outside of the chamber area is a perfect fit within the 16 G chamber -.002 +000 (take a cast first) Then pick a min barrel profile for the rest of the barrel.
Chamber it in something kind and low pressure like 30-30. At the rim cut put a small depression into which you can get a thin coin or your thumbnail
Now at the muzzle end of the liner leave a section like a thick washer on the last 3/8" and make this about .060 less than the inside of the 16 G muzzle. On this section turn a O ring groove so that when fitted it is a tight fit in the 16 G muzzle.
Now disable the extractor/elector or remove them.
Lube theinside of the 16G barrel with a bit of copper greese. Drive the adapter home with a rawhide mallet.
Shoot and enjoy and no harm done to a collectable.

Regards

If you cannot follow that then PM a fax number to me and I will do you a sketch.

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