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Ironscot
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Reged: 14/08/07
Posts: 27
Loc: Indian Nation
Is .500 N.E. the new .470?
      #147179 - 04/12/09 04:53 PM

I'm kind of wondering what the general consensus would be on the future of the .470. It seems from perusing the threads here about that the .500 and up seem to be getting all the play, while the intermediate calibers are almost left to the wimmins an chilluns.

A few years ago I was in a better position to pick up a double, and didn't. Since then the advent of an esposita and now a youngin' had kind of put the kiobosh on the idea until recently. The Sabattis are apparently starting to hit the streets at what seems reasonable money. I've been putting the stink eye on my meager collection and trying to decide what might need another home to be replaced by a standard model Sabatti. I've yearned for a .470 since I was a wee nipper reading Capstick, but wonder if it was just good enough back then and has been seriously kicked to the curb by bigger bores. I had almost convinced myself to pick up a .45-70 simply because it would be fairly inexpensive to burn quantities of ammo and wouldn't be too much overkill on North American game, but a .470 at these prices is almost too good to be true. What do you think the future looks like for this cartridge and available ammo?

I appreciate y'alls learned thoughts.

Bret

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500Nitro
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Re: Is .500 N.E. the new .470? [Re: Ironscot]
      #147180 - 04/12/09 04:59 PM



The 470 will be around for years to come as will ammo.

In some ways the 500 has and may take a bit of the gloss from the 470 but the 500 has a hell of a long way to go to catch up
in terms of numbers.

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Reged: 01/05/04
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Re: Is .500 N.E. the new .470? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #147193 - 04/12/09 11:19 PM

I agree entirely with 500Nitro.

But still, the .500 is my choice of the two.

I'm sure they both are great killers. I bought a .500 because I always admired that cartridge.

One benefit is that one set of dies covers the .500NE and the wonderful .500BPE.

Go with your heart within the constraints of your pocketbook.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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CptCurlAdministrator
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Reged: 01/05/04
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Re: Is .500 N.E. the new .470? [Re: CptCurl]
      #147194 - 04/12/09 11:20 PM

P.S.

The .450NE is on quite a roll now too. It also offers a BPE "twofer".

It's hard not to like the .450NE. In my view of the world the .450NE ranks ahead of the .470, a "Johnny come lately."

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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500Nitro
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Re: Is .500 N.E. the new .470? [Re: CptCurl]
      #147196 - 04/12/09 11:53 PM


500 N E was never that popular in the past due to possible ammo availability problems - which of course becomes a never ending circle of self fulfilling prophecy's.

500 N E seemed to lose it's "mystique" when Merkel made the 500 N E available in the low cost Double.

Just my HO.

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bonanza
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Reged: 17/05/04
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Re: Is .500 N.E. the new .470? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #147200 - 05/12/09 12:13 AM

The .470 has become the .375 of double rifles. But as we know, the .375 is one hell of a cartridge. The 470 is very shootable and does the job - nuff said.

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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500Nitro
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Re: Is .500 N.E. the new .470? [Re: bonanza]
      #147204 - 05/12/09 12:23 AM

Quote:

The .470 has become the .375 of double rifles. But as we know, the .375 is one hell of a cartridge. The 470 is very shootable and does the job - nuff said.




That's a good point.

The 470 is able to be handled by most people.

The 500 NE, not so.

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Ripp
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Re: Is .500 N.E. the new .470? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #147249 - 05/12/09 12:44 PM

Quote:

Quote:

The .470 has become the .375 of double rifles. But as we know, the .375 is one hell of a cartridge. The 470 is very shootable and does the job - nuff said.




That's a good point.

The 470 is able to be handled by most people.

The 500 NE, not so.





500

I find it odd that you stated that--you are much more knowledgable than I in regards to doubles..but of those I have shot, have never really noticed much difference in recoil between the two..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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500Nitro
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Re: Is .500 N.E. the new .470? [Re: Ripp]
      #147251 - 05/12/09 12:50 PM


Ripp

I do believe that their is a firm step up from the 470 to the 500 Nitro - well, there is in my guns and others I have shot
with ONE exception and that is a very light 470.

The effect on animals at the other end is the same
ie it shows when hit by a 500 Nitro.

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Ironscot
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Reged: 14/08/07
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Re: Is .500 N.E. the new .470? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #147272 - 05/12/09 05:13 PM

As always, there are many great perspectives on this subject. Like Jimmy Buffet says, "questions are the easy part, the answers raise the doubt...". I don't have oodles of experience with big boomers. The biggest thing I own and shoot is a .375 magazine rifle and it's an absolute cream puff. On the other hand, I've also got a Weatherby .270 mag that I'm not sure if it's ever been dead nuts zeroed. The recoil on the Weatherby is so dang sharp I swear I've seen my fillings hovering just past the scope!

The reloading equipment options CaptCurl offers for the .450 and the .500 definitey weight towards both of those calibers. I wonder though what effect a larger meplat bullet like Garret produces would have on the .470s perforance. I suppose that the same option applies to all cartridges. Hmmmm

Not like I have to make a decision tomorrow,so I'll keep cogitatin on the matter.

Thanks y'all

Bret

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Ripp
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Re: Is .500 N.E. the new .470? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #147281 - 06/12/09 01:17 AM

Quote:


Ripp

I do believe that their is a firm step up from the 470 to the 500 Nitro - well, there is in my guns and others I have shot
with ONE exception and that is a very light 470.

The effect on animals at the other end is the same
ie it shows when hit by a 500 Nitro.



500,

Agree with the effect on animals..everything I have seen and read..the difference is noticable --similar to a .375 vs a .416..

I have always been accused of not being very sensitive..maybe this is just another example..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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chipolopolo
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Reged: 05/12/09
Posts: 4
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Re: Is .500 N.E. the new .470? [Re: Ripp]
      #147302 - 06/12/09 06:02 AM

I own an 11.5# "K" in .470 and a 10# custom in .500. The difference is dramatic. A box of .470 is rather pleasant, conversely a box of .500 is / would be more of a dare.

Like any other caliber, in "most" hunting situations you don't feel any difference. That being said, I still prefer the .500.

Chipolopolo

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500Nitro
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Re: Is .500 N.E. the new .470? [Re: Ripp]
      #147303 - 06/12/09 06:11 AM

Quote:

Quote:


500,

Agree with the effect on animals..everything I have seen and read..the difference is noticable --similar to a .375 vs a .416..

I have always been accused of not being very sensitive..maybe this is just another example..

Ripp





375 vs 416 would probably be another good example.
I have shot heaps with the 375 but not much with the 40+ cals (ie 404, 416, 458) as I normally have something like a 465 or 500 in my hands.


Well, you and I must be the same then as I like to blow the living crap out of things, ie Vermin - and the bigger the better

Edited by 500Nitro (06/12/09 09:17 AM)

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chipolopolo
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Reged: 05/12/09
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Re: Is .500 N.E. the new .470? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #147307 - 06/12/09 06:42 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:


500,

Agree with the effect on animals..everything I have seen and read..the difference is noticable --similar to a .375 vs a .416..

I have always been accused of not being very sensitive..maybe this is just another example..

Ripp




375 vs 416 would probably be another good example.
I have shot heaps with the 375 but not much with the 40+ cals (ie 404, 416, 458) as I normally have something like a 465 or 500 in my hands.

Well, you and I must be the same then as I like to blow the living crap out of things, ie Vermin - and the bigger the better





I too see a noticable difference on the animals, just as soon as my double vision stops!!

Chipolopolo

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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
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Re: Is .500 N.E. the new .470? [Re: chipolopolo]
      #147312 - 06/12/09 09:46 AM

Quote:

I own an 11.5# "K" in .470 and a 10# custom in .500. The difference is dramatic. A box of .470 is rather pleasant, conversely a box of .500 is / would be more of a dare. Chipolopolo



In my experience--much of felt recoil can be attributed to weight, stock design and fit among other factors-- A Merkel I used to own kicked the living crap out of me--was a .470--yet my W/R in same caliber is actually pleasant to shoot..have noticed the same in the other calibers..shot a W/R and older Rigby in 500 last spring..did not think they were that much different than my .470--again I am insesitive..

Agree though, given the choice, I would take the 500..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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500Nitro
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Re: Is .500 N.E. the new .470? [Re: Ripp]
      #147315 - 06/12/09 09:55 AM


Ripp

You mention you shot an "older Rigby in 500 last spring"

Sidelock or Boxlock ?

I thought Rigby (old Rigby) only made one 500 Nitro Double
or am I mistaken and it was only one Rigby Bissell Sidelock 500 Nitro ? i think it was written up in Harold Wolf's magazine.

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DUGABOY1
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Reged: 02/02/03
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Re: Is .500 N.E. the new .470? [Re: Ironscot]
      #147320 - 06/12/09 11:32 AM

I don't think you need worry about the 470NE going anyplace soon, if at all. There are many others that are simi popular today that will go away long before the 470NE. The 500/416K is one that I believe will die on the vine long before the 470NE.

Having said that, the 470NE is not my favorite cartridge for dangerous game in a double rifle, but I do have one. I'm not an elephant hunter, but if I were the 500NE would be my first choice for that persuit. IMO, the 500NE is a better elephant cartridge that either the 470NE , or the 577NE. It hits harder than the 470NE, and it pennetrates better than the 577NE.

There is no question that the 500NE packs a bigger punch to the shooter as well over the 470NE, but is less than the 577NE.

My thing is cape buffalo, and the 470NE IMO is not needed for that animal, and for my personal use my favorite double rifle for up to, and including Cape buffalo, is a fine 10 pound or a little less 450/400NE 3". The 450/400NE 3" Is IMO absolutely perfect for cape buffalo, and is far more versitile for the cats as well. With proper loads I don't believe there is a better follow-up rifle that a nice 10 pound 450/400NE 3" double rifle for lion or leopard, and is up to about anything a buffalo has to offer.

The above is only my opinion, and is free for the taking or leaving!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
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Re: Is .500 N.E. the new .470? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #147323 - 06/12/09 01:12 PM

Quote:


Ripp

You mention you shot an "older Rigby in 500 last spring"

Sidelock or Boxlock ?

I thought Rigby (old Rigby) only made one 500 Nitro Double
or am I mistaken and it was only one Rigby Bissell Sidelock 500 Nitro ? i think it was written up in Harold Wolf's magazine.



Not sure as to your second question, but it was a boxlock-- The 500 I shot was at the local W/R shop here in Bozeman.

Supposedly it was of the 1920's or early 1930's vintage if memory serves me correctly. The gun was sent over from England and was supposedly refurbished and originally from India..In my opinion it had seen its better days so I passed on it..as know, have kept my eye open for a good best gun in a 500 for a while.. The ones I have found are more $$ than I am willing to spend..someday..

See they have an identical W/R double boxlock right now in .470..$36000. --seems way high too me..YOU????

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Edited by Ripp (06/12/09 01:20 PM)

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500Nitro
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Re: Is .500 N.E. the new .470? [Re: Ripp]
      #147324 - 06/12/09 01:34 PM

Quote:

Quote:


Ripp

You mention you shot an "older Rigby in 500 last spring"

Sidelock or Boxlock ?

I thought Rigby (old Rigby) only made one 500 Nitro Double
or am I mistaken and it was only one Rigby Bissell Sidelock 500 Nitro ? i think it was written up in Harold Wolf's magazine.



Not sure as to your second question, but it was a boxlock-- The 500 I shot was at the local W/R shop here in Bozeman.

Supposedly it was of the 1920's or early 1930's vintage if memory serves me correctly. The gun was sent over from England and was supposedly refurbished and originally from India..In my opinion it had seen its better days so I passed on it..as know, have kept my eye open for a good best gun in a 500 for a while.. The ones I have found are more $$ than I am willing to spend..someday..

See they have an identical W/R double boxlock right now in .470..$36000. --seems way high too me..YOU????

Ripp




I have 3 already, don't need any more.

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4seventy
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Re: Is .500 N.E. the new .470? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #147339 - 06/12/09 08:28 PM

Quote:


Ripp

You mention you shot an "older Rigby in 500 last spring"

Sidelock or Boxlock ?

I thought Rigby (old Rigby) only made one 500 Nitro Double
or am I mistaken and it was only one Rigby Bissell Sidelock 500 Nitro ? i think it was written up in Harold Wolf's magazine.



Regarding "old Rigby", there was only one Sidelock 500NE built, according to HW.

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