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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
How to pick out a used rifle. Part Deux
      #14633 - 11/05/04 11:42 AM

Assuming you have looked at the rifle now take off the forend. Hold the action body in one hand and twist the barrels with the other. If there is any movement it has a loose hinge pin. This is fixable and not the catastrophy some would have you think.

Take the barrels off and look down the bores, from both ends. You can see things from one direction that you can't see from the other. Look for pitting of the chambers and the bores. This is usually caused by the corrosive primers used in the olden days. Light pitting and worn rifleling does not mean the rifle will not shoot well.

I have had one rifle that was so badly pitted in the chamber that the brass would fill in the pits when fired and ejectors could not pull the shell out. The normal solution here is a rechamber and rebore. Worst case scenario is new barrels.

Take the barrels and 'hang them' upside down on a finger and then strike them with something hard. There whould be a sharp tone. If the sound is flat or dull then the ribs could be seperated. This will mean resoldering, reblacking and reregulating.

While apart, check the flats of the barrels for proof marks. Make sure it is a nitro proof and what the load is.

Place a horn or hard plastic block against the face and pull both triggers. Make sure that both firnig pinswork. Do not use wood as the pins can stick into the wood. You want them to rebound as they should. Look and see if the firing pins are bushed on the face. This is a mark of a better rifle.

Reassemble the rifle and, using snap caps, fire each barrel. If equipped with ejectors make sure they work. If possible let the snap caps exit the gun onto the floor or ground. See where the ejected caps or shells hit in relation to one another. This will let you know if the ejectors are tuned properly as they should end up side by side. This may not seem important but it is an indicator of overall condition and care.

Still like it? Then arrange to fire it. Never buy any Double that you cannot fire first. If the seller doesn't have any ammo have him get some or get it yourself. THIS IS IMPORTANT. If the seller won't let you shoot the rifle then walk away or make an offer appropriate to the worst case scenario of reregulation and resoldering of the rib.

Some rifles do not have a standard bore. Unless you know what it is get it slugged and miked. You are spending a lot of money so the seller should not mind any of this. Remember you are responsible for any damage you do during an inspection period.

I think that anything can be fixed. It all depends on what you pay up front that determinees a good deal.

Anybody else have any suggestions on what to look for?











--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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470Rigby
.333 member


Reged: 23/02/04
Posts: 328
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Re: How to pick out a used rifle. Part Deux [Re: mickey]
      #14661 - 12/05/04 01:09 AM

Mickey

Just a few things that come to readily to mind that haven't been touched on;

RIBS - look for any sign that the ribs have been taken off and relaid. If so, the original barrel regulation could have been put askew. This could have been done simply because they have vibrated loose, but could be due to rust formation under the ribs. Or possibly because the barrels have been docked. Look down down the ribs, checking for any undulations. Because it would be extremely unlikely for the gunmaker would lay them other than perfectly flat(assuming he was a "Britt"!!). Any humps and bumps can be taken as evidence that they have been relaid, and the rifle should definitely be taken to the range for test firing.

CRACKED STOCK - Hairline cracks are not always obvious. Put the rifle together, and bend it at the wrist region of the stock, looking for any cracks to open up.

EXTERNAL BARREL REPAIRS - If the barrel blacking looks anything other than original, take the rifle out into sunlight, and look for any localised diffences in the colour of the blacking, indicating that external pitting may have been filled with weld which usually reacts to the blacking (rust process) differently.

BAD RE-TIGHTENING - While there is nothing wrong with re-tightening per se, if not done properly, the new owner will be up for the cost of having the work done again in short order. There are still some scoundrels out there that will take to the lumps with a ball peen hammer or a centre punch.! I have a mate who does this every time he wants to shoot one of his favourite guns! Even so, IMO there is a right way and a wrong way to tighten a gun, and the simple expedient of inserting wedges into the Hook where it contacts the hinge pin is a wrong way, and is easy to detect.Also, when checking for looseness, it is alway a good idea that the gun is not clagged up with excessive grease - amazing how many guns become loose after they are cleaned!

LOCKPLATES - If the vendor will agree, take the lockplates (or detachable locks if a WR of that persuasion) off and check for any evidence of rusting, or whether they have been monkeyed around with in any way.

PROVENANCE - If records exist for the paricular make and are accessible, check them out and make sure they square off against the gun being considered. If maker is still in existance this is usually possible, but records for some other gunmakers are in private hands, if you know where to look. Obviously, we are looking for any depatures from the original specifications, which may indicate barrel re-boring, re-barreling, or worse, a complete conterfeiting.


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500grains
.416 member


Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: How to pick out a used rifle. Part Deux [Re: 470Rigby]
      #14668 - 12/05/04 03:35 AM

I would look for matching numbers/marks between the barrels and receiver to be sure that the barrels are indeed original as non-original barrels may radically affect value of the rifle.

Best of all, take the rifle to a double expert for evaluation. If that is not practical, understand that you are taking a significant financial risk.


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450Dakota
.300 member


Reged: 18/03/04
Posts: 113
Loc: California, USA
Re: How to pick out a used rifle. Part Deux [Re: mickey]
      #14681 - 12/05/04 06:30 PM

Mickey, As you can guess I have been hanging on every word thats been typed on this thread and others regarding this subject. The most important advice that keeps coming up for us non-experianced or novices, GET AN EXPERT DOUBLE GUNSMITH TO CHECK IT OUT!... Ok, but where do I find one? Perhaps we can start a list of reputed smiths who can provide these services in each country/state.. I for one can't thank you all enough for your valuable insights and experiance that you all have been so willing to share......450

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mickey
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Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: How to pick out a used rifle. Part Deux [Re: 450Dakota]
      #14690 - 13/05/04 12:31 AM

In reply to:

The most important advice that keeps coming up for us non-experianced or novices, GET AN EXPERT DOUBLE GUNSMITH TO CHECK IT OUT!... Ok, but where do I find one?




Ahhh, that's the rub, isn't it? I would guess that 90% of the gunsmiths in the US would not know anything about a Double Rifle. You, or anybody that reads this forum, is probably better informed and knowledgable.

Of the 10% remaining, perhaps 90% of them can look at one and offer a legitimate opinion. The remaining 10%, or 1% of the total are actual able to do some or all repairs.

Somewhere on this forum is a thread that asks the same question. I believe there is a list of a half dozen or so gunsmiths that are recommended by different members. My personnel recommendation would be JJ Peridou at Champlins. He is the only one in the Country I have had a positive experience with. I used New England Arms (Dietrich Appels outfit.) once and they tried there best to ruin a rifle I sent them so I would not recommend them to anyone.

Aside from them I have heard Lee La Bas SP? recommended by a few people. I understand Searcy is offering a repair service also. There are a few others but not many. Most of the work I get done is sent off to Europe, to Liege or Ferlach. I have found that the prices are half of what they are here and the workmanship is steller. A six year apprenticeship means no 'self taught' experimenters. There are also some cottage workers in Britain that work for all the big houses also. It can be a bit of a hassel with paperwork but once you have done it it isn't all that formidable.



--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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500grains
.416 member


Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: How to pick out a used rifle. Part Deux [Re: mickey]
      #14697 - 13/05/04 05:05 AM

Let's give this a go:

JJ Perodeau of Champlinarms in Enid, Oklahoma
Lee LeBass in Reno, Nevada
Butch Searcy of Searcy Enterprises in Boron, California (not sure if Butch does repairs)
Dietrich Appel of New England Custom Gun in Plainfield, New Hampshire

Others?


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zr2paul
.224 member


Reged: 12/02/04
Posts: 45
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: How to pick out a used rifle. Part Deux [Re: 500grains]
      #15508 - 04/06/04 08:56 AM

I'd Like to give a Canadian contact who offers expertise in Gunsmithing which includes Double Rifles. Stelios has been a great help to my Dad and I. In the past 5 months we have purchased 3 double rifles and currently working on our 4th...and I would like to give credit to Stelios from GUNWORKS INC for helping us. We couldn't have done it without him. Below is his contact information.

Stelios Chrysochou (President) - GUNSWORKS INC.
Phone# 905-513-8880
Fax# 905-513-9041
Internet www.scgunworks.ca
Email gunworks@attcanada.ca

Thanks
Paul


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