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9.3x57
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OSR, Double Damage and Barnes' Response
      #144117 - 22/10/09 01:59 PM

Here is the response from Barnes regarding the use of their mono's in doubles.

Also, here is the contact info for Ty Herring at Barnes. Please direct any questions regarding the use of Barnes bullets in doubles to him @ tyh@barnesbullets.com

Here goes:

Barnes says, '...our position is that we "own" the African market. Every year at the SCI Reno show we have countless guides and PH's visit our booth and buy our products. These same folks recommend our products to thousands of their clients and we've not had a single complaint in regard to the so called OSR issue.

I believe the competition uses these forums in a desperate attempt to gain popularity by spreading these rumors without any facts to back up their claims. There is no doubt in my mind that folks are smart enough to see through the smoke and mirrors tricks these folks portray.

We did the testing required to prove our products don't harm the doubles rifles in question and posted it at the following link. I might also add that these pressures were determined with strain gauges mounted on the exterior of the barrels - confirming that the exterior stress on a given barrel is less using our Mono Metal Banded Solids compared to the Woodleigh FMJ and RNSP.

http://www.barnesbullets.com/resources/newsletters/september-2008-barnes-bullet-n/

Since the post in September of 2008 we have not had a single complaint in this regard. We consider this a non issue and again we encourage anyone to contact us should they feel they have a problem.

At this time we don't feel that further testing is required.'

Here is the link again if it doesn't work above:

http://www.barnesbullets.com/resources/newsletters/september-2008-barnes-bullet-n/

Scroll down to the appropriate article on the site.

By the way, I have no relationship of any kind with Barnes. In fact, I've never shot a game animal with a Barnes bullet, and have never worked for Barnes in any capacity and do not now. I am, merely, a curious gun enthusiast and have found this topic particularly interesting because of the committed, diehard and, most conspicuously, diametrically-opposed positions.

I would love to see documentation of the actual CAUSE of OSR by those who believe it is caused by Barnes bullets. I haven't seen any such thing yet in spite of the long and horse-carcass-kicking discussions. I have read statements that it has occured and Barnes bullets caused it, but I have never seen any documentation or proof that Barnes bullets caused it.

In fact, in spite of implications that pictures of OSR may be posted, I've actually never seen such a thing posted on this forum. Since this is arguably the world's finest "double forum", I am a bit frustrated by that. I am all thumbs with technology, but I find it pretty easy to post pix...

I am not denying that damage to doubles has occured by firing them, maybe with this bullet or with that, and I cannot assert that a Barnes bullet has never caused damage to a gun. I can, however, state that on this forum, I've never seen a shred of proof that any Barnes bullet ever damaged a double. That is not because a Barnes bullet never did cause damage {I have no idea if one did or didn't}, but rather, that no proof has been provided.

That's not an indictment of anyone's integrity, or insinuation that anyone has lied and it certainly is not meant to hurt anyone's feelings, it is merely a fact.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

Edited by 9.3x57 (22/10/09 02:10 PM)

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DUGABOY1
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Re: OSR, Double Damage and Barnes' Response [Re: 9.3x57]
      #144130 - 22/10/09 11:34 PM

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/760101804/m/5671051911

Here is something you might read if you really want to know what happens when you use these ill designed mono-metal bullets in a double rifle!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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JabaliHunter
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Re: OSR, Double Damage and Barnes' Response [Re: 9.3x57]
      #144132 - 23/10/09 12:08 AM

I think that neatly bypasses the fact that prior to 2007(?) Barnes solids were not of 'driving band' design

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JabaliHunter
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Re: OSR, Double Damage and Barnes' Response [Re: 9.3x57]
      #144133 - 23/10/09 12:21 AM

Quote:

Barnes says, '...our position is that we "own" the African market.


Neither does this statement inspire any confidence either - seems incredibly arrogant and dismissive to me. I also very much doubt whether it is true in the context of double rifle users.


Edited by JabaliHunter (23/10/09 12:37 AM)

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9.3x57
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Re: OSR, Double Damage and Barnes' Response [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #144136 - 23/10/09 12:50 AM

Jabali, the bit about the owning of the market generated a chuckle from me, too, and others, but it is a statement of confidence in their sales, obviously, and whether it is strictly true I do not know. Maybe they are the largest American maker of premium bullets for hunters in Africa? I know other makers make pretty forceful statements about their products, too.

Your point about the pre-07 is a really good one. Not sure if they've done any testing with both pre-driving band and post-driving band bullets side-by-side. The pressure and barrel strain tests appear to have been run 2008. It seems tho, that those who say Barnes bullets damage guns do not limit that statement to pre-driving band bullets. Is that correct? Don't they say that ALL Barnes bullets damage doubles?

Dugaboy: I clicked on the link but only got a repost of the link shown here. The remark about Barnes bullets that came from the one poster doesn't give any particulars, but seems to imply that all was well with his "custom loaded" ammo till he got to Africa? I assume he shot the gun before he left? Our own Peter here posted a problem he had with a double {barrels separating or reg wedge loosening IIRC} when he went to Africa, but that had nothing to do with mono bullets. I do not believe he blamed the bullets for the problem. I do not remember if a cause was actually found for the problem.

Anyway, the AR thread provided no details of any kind, no pic's nothing. No criticism here, just observing the obvious. A fellow could say the same about pretty much anything. I had a gun that blew primers on Remington ammo consistently. While I thought it was Remington ammo, I finally found out it was the gun, and once rectified, the gun doesn't blow primers with any factory ammo.

If you can see here, I am actually trying to help you state your cause, as I want to know the truth. But repeating the same accusations without providing proof or any technical data only makes such statements sound like the "smoke and mirrors tricks" cited by Barnes above.

Now here's one, from the link I'm surprised nobody pounced on,

Barnes says: "Based on our tests and experience, I’m comfortable stating that Barnes Banded Solids are better for antique barrels than the competition."

Wow. That is a pretty strong statement!!

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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Ripp
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Re: OSR, Double Damage and Barnes' Response [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #144137 - 23/10/09 12:51 AM

9.3
As I stated in my email, and state above--that they "own the African market" is a crock, IMHO..Not what I see and hear in the lst 4 hunts over there..are they around?,,you bet..but hardly rule the market..I used their solids in my .416's when hunting ele or buff...but for softs, still stick with the A-Frame..and NO, I do not get $$ from Swift for promoting them..just merely feel their A-Frame soft is second to none for game..

I also use the Triple shocks in some of my higher velocity cartridges while hunting here in the U.S. ..257 Weatherby is one example..

As to whether there is validity to the claim that barnes solids should not be used in doubles, especially older doubles..I do find it ironic that NO ONE has been able to put forth proof. One would think, with all the shooting that is claimed to be done, someone, somewhere, would have photos to share. Having said that, and own a older WR, I am still not going to risk it when another viable product is available..Just see no reason to ..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Edited by Ripp (23/10/09 01:30 AM)

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Huvius
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Re: OSR, Double Damage and Barnes' Response [Re: Ripp]
      #144140 - 23/10/09 01:26 AM

Quote:

Having said that, and owned a older WR, I am still not going to risk it when another viable product is available..Just see no reason to ..



Precisely!
Surely the monometal bullet fad is a result of political pressure to decrease the use of lead projectiles. Which has no basis in scientific fact BTW.
Traditional bullets have been doing a splendid job for well over 100 years - why take the chance?
It's like saying to yourself, "my gut tells me this may not be good for my rifle, and there are excellent options, but what the heck - I'll try them"

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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9.3x57
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Re: OSR, Double Damage and Barnes' Response [Re: Huvius]
      #144146 - 23/10/09 02:08 AM

Huvius brings up a good point about traditionals.

They HAVE been around, and I suppose, preferred.

OSR has been stated on previous posts to be "everywhere", not uncommon at all.

Assuming we are right and most people do not shoot Barnes bullets in doubles, doesn't it logically follow that OSR is, if caused by bullets at all, caused by traditional bullets also?? Or has every gun exhibiting OSR been shot only with Barnes bullets?

I seems a stretch to say that Barnes aren't popular bullets for use in doubles but they are the only ones that cause the common OSR failure. Or is that not what is being said?

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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DarylS
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Re: OSR, Double Damage and Barnes' Response [Re: 9.3x57]
      #144149 - 23/10/09 02:32 AM

I don't know who 400 Nitro Express is, but his post: What a joke. Damage to DR barrels has nothing to do with pressure, and everybody knows that. I've discussed their "tests" with Ty on the phone. I tried, but I couldn't keep myself from laughing."

When I read this from the link above, I laughed. Obviously 400 NitroEx. knows nothing about pressure relating to strain gauges, but sure likes to spout off. Perhaps he's being funded by 'other' bullet companies?
Strain gauges show exactly what the barrel is feeling. To have this OSR phenominum, to actually press the rifling out to the outside of the barrel takes pressure - a strain gauge is on the outside of the barrel and shows the strain, pressure THERE.

Interesting.hahahahahahaha!

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Ripp
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Re: OSR, Double Damage and Barnes' Response [Re: DarylS]
      #144160 - 23/10/09 04:40 AM

Quote:


Interesting.hahahahahahaha!





Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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500Nitro
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Re: OSR, Double Damage and Barnes' Response [Re: DarylS]
      #144167 - 23/10/09 05:46 AM

Quote:

I don't know who 400 Nitro Express is, but his post: What a joke. Damage to DR barrels has nothing to do with pressure, and everybody knows that. I've discussed their "tests" with Ty on the phone. I tried, but I couldn't keep myself from laughing."

When I read this from the link above, I laughed. Obviously 400 NitroEx. knows nothing about pressure relating to strain gauges, but sure likes to spout off. Perhaps he's being funded by 'other' bullet companies?
Strain gauges show exactly what the barrel is feeling. To have this OSR phenominum, to actually press the rifling out to the outside of the barrel takes pressure - a strain gauge is on the outside of the barrel and shows the strain, pressure THERE.

Interesting.hahahahahahaha!




Darryl

I understand what you are saying, but you can get pressure with other bullets as well that don't cause OSR.

It is the fact that the bullets don't obturate as they go down the barrel that causes the rifling to be pushed to the outside.


And re 400NitroExpress, I think he knows a shitload more than 99.9% of the rest of us and be thankful IMHO that he is quite willing to impart that knowledge.

And I don't think he works for anyone else, he just likes calling a spade a spade.

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400NitroExpress
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Re: OSR, Double Damage and Barnes' Response [Re: DarylS]
      #144169 - 23/10/09 07:34 AM

Quote:

I don't know who 400 Nitro Express is, but his post: What a joke. Damage to DR barrels has nothing to do with pressure, and everybody knows that. I've discussed their "tests" with Ty on the phone. I tried, but I couldn't keep myself from laughing."

When I read this from the link above, I laughed. Obviously 400 NitroEx. knows nothing about pressure relating to strain gauges, but sure likes to spout off. Perhaps he's being funded by 'other' bullet companies?
Strain gauges show exactly what the barrel is feeling. To have this OSR phenominum, to actually press the rifling out to the outside of the barrel takes pressure - a strain gauge is on the outside of the barrel and shows the strain, pressure THERE.

Interesting.hahahahahahaha!



Pretty ignorant post. You obviously are completely ignorant of the cause of OSR, as well as of the test conducted, but you sure like to spout off as if you're not.

I've been exclusively a double rifle shooter for over 20 years, have had damage to DRs from monos, and have been discussing this issue with gunmakers, other serious double rifle shooters, and recognized experts in the DR field the entire time. Contrary to what 9.3 thinks, there are a lot of very well informed professional people with first hand experience with this problem. I've never found a single one of them that believes that excessive operating pressure has anything to do with the OSR, loose ribs and, sometimes, bent barrels characteristic of this damage.

OSR is the result of the expansion of the necessarily thin walls of double rifle barrels, caused by the passage of a bullet too hard to obturate, to the extent of exceeding recoverable deformation - the steel doesn't return to it's original shape. Also, the passage of this bulge down the barrel can flex the solder joints, causing them to fail. There are documented cases of barrels that actually bent.

Chamber pressure is no part of the puzzle, excessive or otherwise. One bullet maker (Woodleigh, I think) tested this by driving bullets down a barrel by hand, and measuring the expansion over the bullet as it was driven down the barrel. Soft, lead core bullets made a very small bulge, or none at all, as they passed down through the thinner sections up forward because the lead core is compressible, permitting the bullet to obturate. Bullets that are too hard to obturate made a large bulge. Mono-metals don't have a lead core that permits them to compress, so they can't obturate.

I spent some time on the phone with Ty about what Barnes had done to determine the suitability of their bullets for double rifles. I was careful to make sure that I understood what he said. Look at the link. The "take" was over the chamber ONLY. The expansion over the chamber gives you chamber pressure only, that's how a strain gauge works. No attempt was made to measure expansion downtube caused by the passage of the bullet itself - and there is no controversy that it is that expansion that causes the damage. I had this conversation with them maybe a couple years ago, many years after my complaint to them about damage to a double rifle from Barnes X, plus another from their mono solids.

Quote:

Originally posted by 9.3X57:

In fact, in spite of implications that pictures of OSR may be posted, I've actually never seen such a thing posted on this forum. Since this is arguably the world's finest "double forum", I am a bit frustrated by that. I am all thumbs with technology, but I find it pretty easy to post pix...



...and not so easy to take them. If you had basic knowledge of quality double guns, you'd know why.

If you had a good quality gun with well-struck barrels next to a cheap machine made gun with very poorly finished barrels, would the difference be obvious? Of course, a blind baby could see it. Could you photograph it and capture the difference? Good luck. You look for OSR in exactly the same way that you examine a Purdey best for perfectly struck barrels.

Tell you what. I have ready access to five double rifles with OSR. I'm sure you're right and I'm wrong. I'm sure it's simple to capture on film. I haven't figured out how yet, and I'm sure you'll know exactly what to do. Come show us how it's done.

Quote:

Originally posted by 9.3X57:

If you can see here, I am actually trying to help you state your cause, as I want to know the truth.



Well, let's see. You don't own, and never have owned, a double rifle. If you have I think you would have mentioned it. As such you haven't had the experience, or the worry, that we long-time DR shooters have had. We've had the need to research this issue and make our own choices, and some of us have actually observed direct cause and effect first hand. So, you don't have any experience with the subject matter, or knowledge of it, nor do you have any reason to. You're also the only one trying to make this discussion exclusive to one brand, which it is not. And, you seem to have a need to make a statement about a long-settled issue. You obviously have an agenda, but your manner proves that it isn't to help anyone, or to gain knowledge, let alone the truth.

Quote:

Originally posted by 9.3X57:

That's not an indictment of anyone's integrity, or insinuation that anyone has lied



Yeah. Right.


The direction this discussion has taken is a waste of time, as OSR and it's cause is a long since settled matter. Once again, for anyone with a genuine desire to better understand OSR, no one has liaised with the trade on this issue as much as Graeme Wright has. The third edition of his book, "Shooting the British Double Rifle" has just been released, and his discussion of the issue is the best I've seen. The list of names of the principals of the double rifle making trade that he has consulted in researching this work is exhaustive.

Here are a few excerpted comments from it that I posted on another string:

Quote:

"The first and more frequent problem is what I will refer to as over-stressed rifling....It can be seen when looking down the outside of the barrels at an acute angle, using the same technique as examining a shotgun barrel for dents and bulges. The damage appears as raised metal areas following the lands of the rifling. Maybe a better description is "shadows outlining the rifling." (Sounds real easy to photograph, don't it?)

"This problem can affect double rifles of any age. Virtually all double rifle makers have encountered this at some time and it is obviously a major concern."

"Firstly, Russell (Wilkin of Holland & Holland) points out the fact that double rifles operated without problems for 75 to 100 years. However, late in the twentieth century these problems started to manifest themselves. The only change was the use of a different projectile material"

"In severe cases, even more damage can result. In some cases the barrels have come apart at the muzzles, breaking the solder of the ribs and bending the barrels. One British gun maker has reported a case where the right barrel was bent one inch up and to the right and the solder of the ribs cracked half way down the barrels."

"On a practical level it is interesting to note that none of the current London Gunmakers recommends hard projectiles in their double rifles and in some cases single barreled rifles."



--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

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500Nitro
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Re: OSR, Double Damage and Barnes' Response [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #144170 - 23/10/09 07:39 AM


Woodleigh definately tested this in a 45 cal barrel.

I can't remember whether he pushed it down the barrel but I know they fired bullets down the barrel.

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450_366
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Re: OSR, Double Damage and Barnes' Response [Re: 500Nitro]
      #144171 - 23/10/09 08:10 AM

This is realy getting out of hand, why the heck is it so hard to try to argue reasonably.
Do people realy think that being agressive is the way to go, if you know something is true and you have the facts to prove it, then for gods sake use your facts. If not be prepared to be questioned, i could post for being the king of sweden if i liked (ok nowone would beleave it but anyway to make a point) as this is the internet and we should not trust anyone here without facts.

If you only have heard others say it, do not raise your voice before you can show some facts.

I have tryed to ask these question before.

Are there any 9,3mm or smaller rifles with osr out there.
Are there any combos such as drillings or O/U with osr.

And please only first hand information, or at least second, so if questioned a rifle can be presented.

400NE, to bad about your rifles, how do they shoot with the osr, compared to before? Where they vintage or new.



--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

Edited by 450_366 (23/10/09 08:20 AM)

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Mike_Bailey
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Re: OSR, Double Damage and Barnes' Response [Re: 500Nitro]
      #144172 - 23/10/09 08:15 AM

Guys, we can put this to bed once and for all, if one of you chaps knows someone at Barnes and give me their tel. no, I will BUY 200 rounds of their TX or mono solids in flanged .375 IF they place US$75k in an escrow account of my choice. I will then shoot said 200 rounds through my .375. Any damage after said rounds (regulation,ribs,off face, OSR,) they pay for the damage, is that fair ? best, Mike (regulated with Woodleighs and finished last week after 2 years 10 months), best, Mike p.s. pound to a pinch of shit they don't take me up

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500Nitro
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Re: OSR, Double Damage and Barnes' Response [Re: 450_366]
      #144173 - 23/10/09 08:15 AM


450_366

Who was the first part of your post aimed at ?????



In regards to
"Are there any 9,3mm or smaller rifles with osr out there."

Yes, but I am sure 400NE can elaborate.

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450_366
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Re: OSR, Double Damage and Barnes' Response [Re: 500Nitro]
      #144174 - 23/10/09 08:28 AM

Quote:


450_366

Who was the first part of your post aimed at ?????







No one in particular, it was only an observation of the posts on this subject, not only from this tread.

When posting i try not to hurt peoples feelings, sorry if some got hurt by it.

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

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500Nitro
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Re: OSR, Double Damage and Barnes' Response [Re: 450_366]
      #144176 - 23/10/09 08:41 AM

Quote:



No one in particular, it was only an observation of the posts on this subject, not only from this tread.

When posting i try not to hurt peoples feelings, sorry if some got hurt by it.




I was just asking for general interest sake, that's all.

You definatley didn't hurt my feelings LOL


I find that some people don;t even listen to reason from experienced people and fact, that is probably what gets
me more than anything.

It's all well and good not listening and believing in some newbie but someone as credible as 400NE who would have to be up in the top 5% of experience along the lines of Graeme Wright et all, why wouldn't you listen to him ?

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peter
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Re: OSR, Double Damage and Barnes' Response [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #144177 - 23/10/09 08:45 AM

Quote:

Guys, we can put this to bed once and for all, if one of you chaps knows someone at Barnes and give me their tel. no, I will BUY 200 rounds of their TX or mono solids in flanged .375 IF they place US$75k in an escrow account of my choice. I will then shoot said 200 rounds through my .375. Any damage after said rounds (regulation,ribs,off face, OSR,) they pay for the damage, is that fair ? best, Mike (regulated with Woodleighs and finished last week after 2 years 10 months), best, Mike p.s. pound to a pinch of shit they don't take me up



so mike

where is the pictures

best

peter

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450_366
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Re: OSR, Double Damage and Barnes' Response [Re: 500Nitro]
      #144179 - 23/10/09 09:17 AM

Quote:



I was just asking for general interest sake, that's all.

You definatley didn't hurt my feelings LOL


I find that some people don;t even listen to reason from experienced people and fact, that is probably what gets
me more than anything.

It's all well and good not listening and believing in some newbie but someone as credible as 400NE who would have to be up in the top 5% of experience along the lines of Graeme Wright et all, why wouldn't you listen to him ?



Good to hear.
As you write, im not listening to him i read it, together with all the rest i read all day, it doesent mean that i beleve it.

Now, im not saying i do not beleve 400NE or any other on this forum, but i do say that its the right to anyone to question someone, even 400NE as has already been done. I would regard anyone that question myself in anything i would say/write as a sound person, most thing we take for facts has been rewritten many times and will be again. And i would not get down to nametelling agains anyone that does so, not implying that he did, but some have done.

As to listen and beleve, listen to everyone, beleve no one.

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

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400NitroExpress
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Re: OSR, Double Damage and Barnes' Response [Re: 450_366]
      #144181 - 23/10/09 09:37 AM

Quote:

This is realy getting out of hand, why the heck is it so hard to try to argue reasonably.



Beats me. This one is so pointless to begin with. I feel like we're having a discussion about whether or not 9/11 was a Bush White House hoax. Nothing wrong with that I suppose, but I don't get the need for the tone of a couple posters here at all.


Quote:

I have tryed to ask these question before.

Are there any 9,3mm or smaller rifles with osr out there.



By far the worst damaged of the two was a 9.3 from the '30s.

Quote:

Are there any combos such as drillings or O/U with osr.



I've never paid much attention to them. Some rifle barrels in combination guns a very, very thin. I wouldn't use monos in them.

Quote:

400NE, to bad about your rifles, how do they shoot with the osr, compared to before? Where they vintage or new.



The 9.3 suffered. It was sold shortly thereafter, and I've not heard tell of it since. The other was only fired with a very few mono-solids, and OSR became very slightly visible, after which monos were discontinued. I've used lead core bullets since and it's never gotten worse, and remains very accurate. That rifle is also pre-war. However, as Wright observes, it happens with new guns as well.

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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

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Huvius
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Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3522
Loc: Colorado
Re: OSR, Double Damage and Barnes' Response [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #144183 - 23/10/09 10:37 AM

Just a quick question.
I have a box of Barnes .416 mono solids which I ended up with somwhere along the line.
They are a light yellow brass color and seem to be quite hard and are the older style with no driving bands - I have never used any.
Is there any information regarding the composition of Barnes or any other makers' mono solids?
Can they be annealed to "soften" them up? How about my earlier suggestion of boring them out to allow for some comression?

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He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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Omnivorous_Bob
.333 member


Reged: 03/10/05
Posts: 285
Loc: Montana
Re: OSR, Double Damage and Barnes' Response [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #144190 - 23/10/09 12:37 PM

Jabali, are barnes bullets really a driving band design even now? I've only used them in 30-06 on caribou and loaded but not used their solid in 375, but my understanding is that even the grooves between the bands is larger than the bore diameter. Can anyone confirm this? I don't have one here to measure.

I'm just curious, I have no intention of using one in a double. Woodleigh's do just fine, and I see no need to take even a remote chance for a dubious gain.

Bob

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"If we're not supposed to eat animals, how come they're made out of meat?"

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bonanza
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Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: OSR, Double Damage and Barnes' Response [Re: Omnivorous_Bob]
      #144193 - 23/10/09 12:45 PM

I think it is good for these subjects to bubble up. There are some new double rifle owners who, unless it arises, would not know better. I think I shot about 100 barnes X bullets in my Merkel before being advised otherwise.

I've only shot lead core bullets in my vintage doubles.

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"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: OSR, Double Damage and Barnes' Response [Re: Omnivorous_Bob]
      #144203 - 23/10/09 01:58 PM

Quote:

I've only used them in 30-06 on caribou and loaded but not used their solid in 375, but my understanding is that even the grooves between the bands is larger than the bore diameter. Can anyone confirm this? I don't have one here to measure.
Bob



Just went down and grabbed a box --measured several-my reading was .412 on the bottom half of the bullet after the band..

Ripp

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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