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9.3x57
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.30-06 + Elk
      #143856 - 17/10/09 03:29 PM

"Son", I said, "I can't be with you today. They are somewhere on that mountain there or that mountain there. Stay on your feet and don't come home till it's dark".

He finally got home in the dark.





--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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peter
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Re: .30-06 + Elk [Re: 9.3x57]
      #143859 - 17/10/09 07:01 PM

good for him, that is a big animal.

best

peter


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JabaliHunter
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Re: .30-06 + Elk [Re: peter]
      #143861 - 17/10/09 10:15 PM

Fantastic! I have been re-reading some old articles recently and I am struck by all the comments suggesting that the 300 Weatherby, 8mm Rem Mag and 338 Win Mag are just about the only suitable elk calibres and nothing about how the good old '06 is still getting the job done as it always has! Just shows how much attention we should pay to gun-writers!
What bullet was he using out of interest?


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9.3x57
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Re: .30-06 + Elk [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #143864 - 17/10/09 11:10 PM

Quote:

Just shows how much attention we should pay to gun-writers!
What bullet was he using out of interest?




Thanks fellows. Yesterday was quite a bootslog for him, and he finally killed this cow just below a ridge I killed my first elk on years ago!

And five years to the day from when he killed his first {a split top spike}!

Most popular calibers before the '90s here were the .30-06 for sure at the top. Then maybe whatever was in the stable for deer; .270 & .308. Most popular "magnum" was {probably still is} .300 Winchester Magnum. Common runners up to the most popular werre the 6.5x55, and .25-06, a few 8x57's, and of course, the .30-30. A few 243's {always got mixed reviews, a bunch of guys tried it, but few kept using it for long on elk}, .338's, .375 H&H's.

Then, the gun caliber boom of the 90's hit and along with it, a high cotton economy, and guys started buying every bullet-tosser they could lay their hands on, to try. The short mags, the Ultramags, etc.

My son has a thing for Round Nose bullets. This one was taken with a 180 Winchester Power Point handload. It is a very good bullet. Shot struck high shoulder, bone almost all the way, and left. In this case, the exit was a bit bigger than caliber. Critter dropped to the shot and he took care of it with the knife.

He actually spotted the smoke blowing thru the trees {...elk...} from high on a ridge where he caught a quick glmpise of the herd far below thru a break in the timber. He took a few seconds to kneel down, ask God's help in the harvest, and took off down the mountain. I have personally never seen a human being cover ground through the tumbled mess and wreck of a mountain forest like this kid can so when he told me he ran DOWN for all he was worth I knew it had to be quite a sight. He had to judge where they might be when he got there {a quarter mile away or so}, and did, popping his head over a hump of grass and spotting the caboose of the train just 35 yards away. Gun up, crosshairs on shoulder, cow down. Then the knife and another moment on his knees.

These things are a big deal to us, and we know the best days are probably behind us now until we get the scourge taken care of.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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DarylS
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Re: .30-06 + Elk [Re: 9.3x57]
      #143867 - 18/10/09 12:45 AM

Young or non-lactating cows are the 'best' eating - almost as good as a fat heavy whitetail.

The wolves down there will be keeping the elk in lean, mean condition.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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9.3x57
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Re: .30-06 + Elk [Re: DarylS]
      #143876 - 18/10/09 07:21 AM

Quote:

The wolves down there will be keeping the elk in lean, mean condition.




We are a bit worried about this. Our winters are highly variable, and heavy fat deposits sure give the elk a leg up on a hard one.

Going into winter skinny; no good. I'm sick of the BS spewed by urban wolf-lovers who continuously squawk that wolves only kill the sick and lame, not taking into account the fact that wolves CAUSE sickness and disability through continuous harrassment and injury caused by being chased.

Anyway, lean is great for runway models but on elk, we like 'em chubby.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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DarylS
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Re: .30-06 + Elk [Re: 9.3x57]
      #143877 - 18/10/09 08:01 AM

Oh, a nice little layer of fat next to you will help keep the chill off during the winter months.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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9.3x57
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Re: .30-06 + Elk [Re: DarylS]
      #143882 - 18/10/09 01:59 PM

Quote:

Oh, a nice little layer of fat next to you will help keep the chill off during the winter months.






--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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Der_Jaeger
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Reged: 09/10/08
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Re: .30-06 + Elk [Re: 9.3x57]
      #143909 - 19/10/09 02:08 AM


Very nice and congratulations to your son! You'll have a very nice variety of wild game throughout the upcoming winter months. There's nothing like a well-deserved reward at the end of an earnest, hard hunt. Nice Elk, nice story.

--------------------


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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: .30-06 + Elk; Cow Carcass & Coyotes.... [Re: Der_Jaeger]
      #143912 - 19/10/09 02:45 AM

Thanks and I'll pass on the good words.

For Jabali:

Here's the bullet track...forgive me, I didn't get the carcass pic'd until after trimming bloodshot meat. At any rate, you can see the high shoulder-spine. Didn't lose to much inspite of the meat-heavy POI. Carcass weighed 225 lbs {102 kgs} for those wondering what an average elk cow weighs.

Like a carcass-grading for the 4-H stockraising club...

Entry:



Inside of cleaned carcass. Shot ranged high above the ribs in the shoulder/spine "hump":



And exit:



AND, der Jäger...

...yesterday's didn't turn up any deer, but did help open ground for some to move into the ranch.

Killed two coyotes on my place;

Shot with .264:



And snared and shot:



Maybe the elimination of those two troublemakers will help out a bit. Do two yotes equal 3/4 of a wolf??? Gotta kill one of them still!!!


Images added to NE Game threads

Edited by NitroX (18/07/10 04:48 AM)


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Der_Jaeger
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Reged: 09/10/08
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Re: .30-06 + Elk; Cow Carcass & Coyotes.... [Re: 9.3x57]
      #143925 - 19/10/09 08:04 AM

Nicely done 9.3!! Even with a hole in the head, they always have that vengeful smile on their face, don't they?

How far did you have to trail them after the shot 9.3? .... haha

--------------------


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9.3x57
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Re: .30-06 + Elk; Cow Carcass & Coyotes.... [Re: Der_Jaeger]
      #143929 - 19/10/09 09:06 AM

Quote:

they always have that vengeful smile on their face, don't they?

Vengeful is right. These things cause more mayhem. This guy seemed to be a little vengeful before the bullet, too...



How far did you have to trail them after the shot 9.3?

Not far when introduced to Comrade Tokarev.





Images added to NE Game threads

Edited by NitroX (18/07/10 04:43 AM)


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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: .30-06 + Elk; Cow Carcass & Coyotes.... [Re: 9.3x57]
      #143936 - 19/10/09 11:48 AM

You using a little snare action there??

We were bow hunting last Saturday morning. Bitterly cold for this time of year..about -5F.
come out of the timber and there were 6 of those buggers out in the meadow rolling around in the snow--looked to be 5 pups and mom looking on..we got back in the timber and I used my elk call to sqeak--see if they would come in--in a very short time 3 were heading our way..with only our bows we had ranged rocks at 30 and 40 yards..figured if they got into that range we would take one with an arrow--unfortunately, they circled attempting to get down wind as they usually do..the leader cut my boot track in the snow and did an 180 the other direction at about 70 yards..I was really wishing I had a rifle at that point..oh well, after big game season we plan to pay that area a visit or two with the calls, shotguns and .220 swift...see how "smerky" they are when that is done..

Congrats on your sons elk...awesome story...has to make a Pop proud..

I actually picked up myself a '06 this year as well--have not even shot it yet--heck of a caliber..and agree, all one would really ever need over here...


Take care

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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9.3x57
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Re: .30-06 + Elk; Cow Carcass & Coyotes.... [Re: Ripp]
      #143973 - 20/10/09 12:35 AM

RIPP:

Thanks and,

Yes, snares. We've found them far more effective than leg holds and easier to carry and set. Set maintenance is alot easier, too. In the brush, the yotes ruin the snare wire tho, no matter how good a swivel is on the wire. We don't even use a swivel on some we make any more because of it. I don't trap for money, tho, just to kill off predators on my place. In the winter, they are even easier to set as the animals let you know exactly where they are running with their tracks in the snow. They must be set low, very low, to avoid catching deer. This will be the big problem with snaring wolves if that is ever made legal, as the proper height for a wolf set is the same height for a deer set. NOT good. Deer are absolutely dumb as a rock when it comes to snares, as are most ungulates, just ask African famr laborers all over the "Dark Continent"...

And glad you mentioned it...

Calls;

Do you know a LOUD cow call? I have a Hoochie Momma that is pretty effective on elk but not very loud. We are chasing deer right now, but come December 1, I and Sonny will be putting all our efforts into wolves.

I'm just delving into it now.

The rabbit squealer works on coyotes, but I've never had a wolf come into that call before. Game department says they have excellent success with various cow calls, but I want a loud one, so if you have any ideas, I'm all ears.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
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Re: .30-06 + Elk; Cow Carcass & Coyotes.... [Re: 9.3x57]
      #143975 - 20/10/09 12:59 AM

The first time I went to Alaska I was told rabbit calls would not work on wolves..and my friends who had been there told me they can't be called in..

This guy was howling the 2nd night I got dropped off with a tent on my own for a week to hunt caribou..got up in the dark about 1/2 hour before daylight heading his way..at light I could see him about 800 yards away..broke out the rabbit call and let her ripp so to speak, pun intended , he got up, looked my way --I hit it again and he come trotting my way..I ranged him off and on as he was coming in..once he hit 300 yards, I clicked off my safety on the 7-300 I was shooting and waited for him to stop..which he did at 267..hammered him with a 150 gr scirroco...he never knew what hit him...

As to loud cow calls,,I have been using an open reed call for quite a few year..don't remember the name of it off hand but will look tonight when I get home and let you know--it is louder than the one you described as my hunting buddy uses that one so I am familiar with it..also wonder if it would help to use the cow call into a grunt tube.??

I really do feel you can call them--think it might be better if you spot them first and then hit the call to draw them in...at least that worked for me..plan to do a bit of that myself given the opportunity...

Good luck..

Ripp





Images added to NE Game threads

Edited by NitroX (18/07/10 04:45 AM)


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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: .30-06 + Elk; Cow Carcass & Coyotes.... [Re: Ripp]
      #143976 - 20/10/09 01:27 AM

RIPP:

Great stuff, fascinating, and congrats!! Great info.

SEEING them here is going to be the hard part due to the thick timber and timbered draws in which they run. Pulling them into the open? I hope so, but don't know yet

But seeing them when they aren't 30 feet ahead of you on a road, when they jump off and are gone, is going to be tough. We are thinking we might be able to "reverse elk hunt" them; going out at night, howling and seeing if we get a response, then returning in the morning...but who knows where they would be by then? Howling in the morning might work, too.

Fish & Game told me the cow call works well, and that they have routinely called them in to 30 feet in research done in deep central Idaho. But again, the habitat is different, and we have way more people here than in a "wilderness" area.

The kicker is, no electric calls are allowed, and they are the best I think. They all-time best call I've heard of is a taped electric call of hounds baying; they cannot resist that noise and come in to kill them, fast and hard.

I'll be interested what your cow call is. Yes, we gotta get this down somehow. I've never been more motivated to learn to hunt something.

Thnanks for the information. Very interesting stuff.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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Der_Jaeger
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Reged: 09/10/08
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Re: .30-06 + Elk; Cow Carcass & Coyotes.... [Re: 9.3x57]
      #143978 - 20/10/09 01:41 AM


I've never used snares but have a good success record trapping fox and coyote with legholds. All of my fox traps are Victor 1 1/2 coilsprings, and for coyotes I'll use an offset Victor 1.75. Dirt hole sets, pocket sets, blind sets, etc.... All boiled, dyed, and waxed.

--------------------


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DarylS
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Re: .30-06 + Elk; Cow Carcass & Coyotes.... [Re: Der_Jaeger]
      #143980 - 20/10/09 02:45 AM

What about Deer Stopper and Co'mere Deer calls for wolves.

One good thing, Rod - when the coyotes are around there aren't any wolves in the area - but both sucker in and kill farm dogs.

Wolf snares are nasty - to many deer, calf elk and calf moose get caught in them. Better to poison the b--tards.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
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Re: .30-06 + Elk; Cow Carcass & Coyotes.... [Re: 9.3x57]
      #143987 - 20/10/09 06:07 AM

Quote:

RIPP:


I'll be interested what your cow call is. Yes, we gotta get this down somehow. I've never been more motivated to learn to hunt something.

Thnanks for the information. Very interesting stuff.




The call I use is Hyper-Hot--have used it for years...works really well on elk..you have to play with it a bit..when I got mine a cd or cassette tape come with it..

Found one on line when I googled cow elk calls..here is the shortcut to it..

http://www.gamecalls.net/products/Woods_Wise_Hyper_Hot_Cow_Vocal_Elk_DVD_Kit-1494-65.html



Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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450_EXPRESS
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Re: .30-06 + Elk; Cow Carcass & Coyotes.... [Re: Ripp]
      #143989 - 20/10/09 06:31 AM

For cow calling, or bugling for that matter, I started with and still prefer a diaphram call for elk. The one I like is the Perfection Double Reed Turkey call (blue) for cow calls and the triple reed (brown)can belt out some great bugles. I use it with a grunt tube ( aprox 2" dia. and a little over 2'long section of Shop-Vac hose))for more resonance or with out when things get up close, although if I'm calling for someone else I can still use the tube, but otherwise the hands free use is mighty handy plus. Diaphram calls are a good bit more trouble to learn, when I first tried I drooled like a rabid dog plus the neighbors dog would come and sit next to me and howl along, but I really think they're worth the effort. I make my own open reed calls for coyote howling, different distress etc. and they work pretty darn good, but I still prefer the diaphram on elk.

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: .30-06 + Elk; Cow Carcass & Coyotes.... [Re: 450_EXPRESS]
      #144008 - 20/10/09 12:20 PM

Thanks guys.

RIPP:

Please rank the loudness; Is that call:

"Quiet"

"Moderately Loud"

"Loud"

"Really Loud"

"Damn Loud"

"My Ears Hurt Loud"

"That Call's So Loud I'll Hump a Cow to Stop it Loud"

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
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Re: .30-06 + Elk; Cow Carcass & Coyotes.... [Re: 9.3x57]
      #144009 - 20/10/09 12:50 PM

Quote:

Thanks guys.

RIPP:

Please rank the loudness; Is that call:

"Quiet"

"Moderately Loud"

"Loud"

"Really Loud"

"Damn Loud"

"My Ears Hurt Loud"

"That Call's So Loud I'll Hump a Cow to Stop it Loud"



++++++


NOW, 9.3, your getting awefully personal--but I'll take the last one..if I'm in the woods alone..long winters you know...

Seriously, it is loud but no more, in my experience it is louder than the houchie mama..but is not in the "damn loud"..area...if you want I can fire one over to you to try--think I still have a new one laying around as a spare...I think if you spotted them and got within 5 to 600 yards.maybe a bit further...in the calm morning they would hear it...I have called in bull elk before on calm mornings from further away than that..in fact one morning I was going to hunt a tree stand for elk..got in before daylight..started to call--had heard a bull bugling a ways off down the draw and up the other side..well, he slipped in while it was stil dark..I let out a loud cow call and he damn near jumped through his hide as after I blew I saw him jump in the light at about 30 yards...

Think I would definitely use the grunt tube in conjunction with the call..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: .30-06 + Elk; Cow Carcass & Coyotes.... [Re: Ripp]
      #144011 - 20/10/09 12:57 PM

C'mon, just between us.

There are no secrets on the internet...



No need to send one. I think I'll order one. From what I'm reading, no cow call really launches into the earsplitter category.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: .30-06 + Elk; Cow Carcass & Coyotes.... [Re: 9.3x57]
      #144031 - 20/10/09 10:52 PM

Quote:


No need to send one. I think I'll order one. From what I'm reading, no cow call really launches into the earsplitter category.




Was out walking the puppy last night and thinking about this--as they are in the dog family, they will/are very territorial just like coyotes.

mmmmmmmmmmm, have you given that a try????

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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9.3x57
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Re: .30-06 + Elk; Cow Carcass & Coyotes.... [Re: Ripp]
      #144032 - 20/10/09 11:37 PM

Yup.

I went to the fur buyer yesterday and saw the pelt from one of the wolves killed locally.

Junk.

Short hairs, belly bald. Rubbish.

One of the lies of course, spewed by the Fish and Game Department was the high value of wolf pelts and how this would be a benefit to hunters. A few years ago, the then-The Large Predator Manager for the State, a notorious wolf lover, once told me they would be worth $450 and lots of guys would hunt them for that and love them for the money the hides would bring in. I didn't believe him then, and of course, don't now. FACTS ALWAYS BELIE EVERY MADE-UP PRO-WOLF TALE TOLD.

Of course, the seasons run during poor weather for high prime pelts, and there isn't any money in them anyway. PERFECT SCENARIO: A perfect pelt, with one caliber-sized hole and no exit, in perfect, prime condition, skinned perfectly and stretched, will pay about $110. There are more spawn of the Loch Ness Monster than there are wolf pelts in such condition here in our forests.

Such a hide will almost never exist. Shot with a highpower rifle, an exit knocks down value, condition is ALWAYS a problem for us {coyotes, too which are more or less worthless around here}. Brought in on the carcass, skinning costs $95 by the fur buyer, and that is not gouging the market as far as I'm concerned as I've skinned enough coyotes to know how hard and long they take, wolves longer.

So the hides will be worth between $5 to $40 on the upside to the hunter.

BUT WHAT ABOUT THE RARITY OF WOLF HIDES??? MOST IMPORTANTLY, ONE MUST REMEMBER THAT THERE IS NO SHORTAGE OF WOLF PELTS IN THE COMMERCIAL INDUSTRY. NO LIMITATION ON SUPPLY THAT WOULD DRIVE PRICES UP. THE WOLF IS NOT AND NEVER WAS ENDANGERED. THE MARKET PROVES THIS WHERE CANADIAN WOLVES PROVIDE SUFFICIENT PELT NUMBERS TO SATISFY THE MARKET, AT RELATIVELY CHEAP PRICES. OURS ARE, IN EFFECT, WORTHLESS.

I should add that though my son and I took elk this year, elk numbers taken are poor in our area. VERY poor. The fur buyers salt shack has a short pile that should be three times as large now, but isn't. The best elk hunters I know, a group of 4 fellows who take 4 bulls every year just returned from elk camp. ZERO. Not one elk taken. Small numbers of track seen, with wolf track in it. The post season numbers produced by the state will help tell the tale, but the future of elk hunting in thE ENTIRE state is bleak.

We need to take back our States, and that is going to start with killing wolves, worthless pelts or not.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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