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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Muzzleloaders & Blackpowder
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bonanza
.400 member


Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Still using 777
      #143157 - 05/10/09 12:34 PM

It goes bang when I pull the trigger. Is there any other loose black substitut that is better?

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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Tatume
.400 member


Reged: 09/06/07
Posts: 1091
Loc: Gloucester, Va USA
Re: Still using 777 [Re: bonanza]
      #143181 - 05/10/09 10:46 PM

Bonanza,

None. When my dog died last year I put up my guns, because I lost interest in hunting. This year I took the Zihn 16-bore out, still loaded from last year, and aimed at a 1-gallon plastic bottle filled with water at 95 yards. The rifle fired with a sharp crack, and the bottle exploded and was laid out like a bath towel. I rolled it back into shape, and the entry and exit holes were both centered. After two wet patches, two dry patches, and one patch with T/C Bore Butter, the bore was completely clean.

I also have a T/C 54 cal percussion Renegade, a Custom Shop gun with 30" barrel and 1:66" twist. It has only been loaded with 777, and has fired hundreds of shots. The gun hasn't been fired for about three years. Just now I ran a tight, dry patch down the bore, and it came out completely rust free, and with a slight yellow stain from the T/C Bore Butter. The patch smells of wintergreen.

Magnified examination of the bore of both guns reveals no blemishes whatsoever. The stuff offends some traditionalists, but works wonderfully. It cleans up so easily and completely, that bores can be maintained in like-new condition with minimal effort.

--------------------
Take care, Tom
NRA Life Member

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bonanza
.400 member


Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: Still using 777 [Re: Tatume]
      #143182 - 05/10/09 11:21 PM

Must have been a good ole dog.

Great to hear you have had such success with 777. I'm really glad that it does not eat up the bore. Do you swab between shots?

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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PBR
.275 member


Reged: 21/08/09
Posts: 51
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
Re: Still using 777 [Re: bonanza]
      #143186 - 06/10/09 12:57 AM

Triple 7 is still the best thing on the market for sidelocks. In my cap and ball revolver I have 2 full weeks without cleaning it to see how corrosive it was. After two weeks, I got tired of looking at it each day. Cleaned up fine.

Inlines (with a certain type of breechplug) though are a different story. "Blackhorn 209" is now top dog. It's very expensive but it is non-corrosive.

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Tatume
.400 member


Reged: 09/06/07
Posts: 1091
Loc: Gloucester, Va USA
Re: Still using 777 [Re: bonanza]
      #143187 - 06/10/09 01:01 AM

Quote:

Great to hear you have had such success with 777. I'm really glad that it does not eat up the bore. Do you swab between shots?


Yes. When I'm at the range, I chew a patch while I'm loading and shooting, then run the nearly-dry patch down the bore before I load the next shot. I throw that patch away, and pop another clean patch in my mouth in preparation for the next shot.

--------------------
Take care, Tom
NRA Life Member

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DarylSModerator
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27003
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Still using 777 [Re: Tatume]
      #143188 - 06/10/09 01:05 AM

Why do you wipe between shots, tom?

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Tatume
.400 member


Reged: 09/06/07
Posts: 1091
Loc: Gloucester, Va USA
Re: Still using 777 [Re: PBR]
      #143189 - 06/10/09 01:06 AM

Quote:

Triple 7 is still the best thing on the market for sidelocks. In my cap and ball revolver I have 2 full weeks without cleaning it to see how corrosive it was. After two weeks, I got tired of looking at it each day. Cleaned up fine.



I would be afraid to try this test, but I'm glad it worked for you. Triple 7 cleans up so easily that I don't think twice about it. I carry a tiny medicine bottle of water with me when I hunt, and a few dry patches and a patch soaked with T/C Bore Butter, wrapped in aluminum foil. After I shoot I clean the gun before field dressing the deer. It only takes five minutes.

--------------------
Take care, Tom
NRA Life Member

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Tatume
.400 member


Reged: 09/06/07
Posts: 1091
Loc: Gloucester, Va USA
Re: Still using 777 [Re: Tatume]
      #143190 - 06/10/09 01:13 AM

There are disadvantages to everything, and H777 is no exception (life's a compromise). It's fairly difficult to ignite. It will not work in a flintlock gun without a small charge of black powder beneath the H777 charge, and the priming charge (in the pan) must also be black powder. I've tried it, and decided that the presence of black powder residue negates the cleaning advantage of the H777. So, I use pure black powder in my flintlock guns.

Although I don't hunt in extremely cold climates, I can imagine that H777 might be hard to ignite in a percussion gun at sub-zero temperatures (but I don't know). This could probably be overcome with so called "magnum" percussion caps, or switching the gun over to musket caps. Again, this is conjecture.

--------------------
Take care, Tom
NRA Life Member

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Tatume
.400 member


Reged: 09/06/07
Posts: 1091
Loc: Gloucester, Va USA
Re: Still using 777 [Re: DarylS]
      #143192 - 06/10/09 01:26 AM

Quote:

Why do you wipe between shots, tom?


Whether using black powder or H777, I find that wiping between shots keeps my bore "free" and easy to load. If I don't wipe, the effort to push the ball home increases. I see no harm in the practice, and although some people don't need to do so, the effort is minimal and I don't mind doing it.

--------------------
Take care, Tom
NRA Life Member

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DarylSModerator
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27003
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Still using 777 [Re: Tatume]
      #143193 - 06/10/09 01:41 AM

NP - was just wondering. Some guys do it because they don't want any fouling buildup in the breech area that doesn't get cleaned when loading the next shot.

I tested the accuracy between wiping between shots and not wiping, many years ago in a couple different guns and found much closer shot to shot velocity spreads and better accuracy if I didn't wipe. Both the .58 and .69 gave me between 4 and 8 fps extreme spreads (10 shot strings) on speed when shot 'dirty', as opposed to 17 to 24fps difference if wiped betweens shots. This was all with spit for lube and heavy denim for patches. Ticking is difficult to find around her, but not denim in the 10 and 12 ounce weight, which is what I use in all my guns.
We usually run 40 to 85 shots on the trail every Sunday, and noone wipes their bores. The last shot actually loads as easily as the first. In the rifles, we all run balls .005" under the bore size,w ith a .020" to .025" denim patch. Lubricant runs from spit, to winter windshield-washer fluid with a bit of liquid soap to hoppe's 9 Plus, which is a good patch lube for the winter, just as is the WW fluid and soap. The addition of soap is merely to slow the evapouration of the fluid and to ad a bit of 'slippery'. Yesterday, in the .32 Tenn. rifle, I used trackofthewolf's mink oil and it loaded easily all day. Some rifles foul a bit on mink oil with heavy charges. All these 'wet' lubes shoot and load 'cleanly'.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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DoubleD
.400 member


Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2437
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma
Re: Still using 777 [Re: DarylS]
      #143195 - 06/10/09 02:29 AM

I used T-7 in cartridge guns and it works well as long as you use smokeless powder bullet lubes. With BP lubes I got the crud ring and it is is a chore to clean out.

Just like BP you must clean the bore after shooting and if you don't it will corrode.

I found that it didn't shoot any better than BP and was not any easier than BP to clean up.

It is pretty rough on brass cases and will eat them very fast if not taken care of promptly.

I don't think it's any better or worse than any of the other BP subsitutes.

There is nothing wrong with T-7. It'd just another tool in the tool box.

But I prefer Swiss BP.

--------------------
DD, Ret.

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