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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Rifles
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iqbal
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Reged: 05/02/03
Posts: 778
Loc: Karachi,Pakistan
The 300 magnum
      #14247 - 03/05/04 07:16 PM

A hunter friend of mine who hunts all over the world and has been to practically every country where ther is game was having a discussion with me on rifles and calibers.He uses only two calibers i.e.the 300 win.mag. and the 300wb.mag.for all game except the elephant and cape buffalo for which he uses the 416 rigby.According to him the 300 mag. is the best allround rifle with the weatherby having a slight edge over the winchester.How far this is true,i would like to know.

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mickey
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Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
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Re: The 300 magnum [Re: iqbal]
      #14256 - 04/05/04 12:27 AM

Your friend is probably right, if you want an All Around Rifle. But why would you want one? What would be the fun in only having one rifle?

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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470Nitro
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Reged: 17/09/03
Posts: 467
Loc: Madrid - Spain
Re: The 300 magnum [Re: iqbal]
      #14265 - 04/05/04 02:58 AM

If I only would be able to own one rifle, problably I use a .300 Win. But as Mick said, why only own one caliber??? Is much better to have them all

--------------------
-----
down by the river on a friday night
pyramid of cans in the pale moonlight
talkin' 'bout guns and dreamin 'bout women
never had a plan just a livin' for the minute

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: The 300 magnum [Re: iqbal]
      #14271 - 04/05/04 03:27 AM

Beware the one rifle hunter for he is deadly.

Its something to aspire to, but I would not have the discipline.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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IronBuck
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Reged: 11/01/03
Posts: 237
Loc: Pittsburgh PA, USA
Re: The 300 magnum [Re: NitroX]
      #14281 - 04/05/04 09:41 AM

The 300 mags are outstanding rounds for hunting here in the states.........as well as around the world. I own a Ruger M77 MArk II in 300 win mag & a Weatherby Mark V in 300 WBY. Both shoot factory ammo into 1 MOA. I have used the win mag to take several long range deer. It dropped them in their tracks at over 300 yards. I have taken it elk hunting but did not get a shot. I have yet to use the WBY on game. But if I ever go after elk with a rifle again instead of my bow...the WBY will come along. And it may also go with me on a winter caribou hunt in Canada.

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475Guy
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Reged: 22/08/03
Posts: 1088
Loc: Kali, US
Re: The 300 magnum [Re: IronBuck]
      #14284 - 04/05/04 11:04 AM

Hey IB, you ever get your Mod 70 back from the factory? It's been quite a while. If it takes much longer, ask, no, demand a refund and get the Ruger like you wanted to all along.

--------------------
Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.

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mickey
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Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
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Re: The 300 magnum [Re: NitroX]
      #14287 - 04/05/04 12:08 PM

In reply to:

Poster: NitroX
Subject: Re: The 300 magnum

Beware the one rifle hunter for he is deadly.



I always wondered about that saying. To me it means that he may not have enough interest in guns to be knowledgeable and probably doesn't practice much, if at all. In the olden days, before seasons and bag limits it may have been applicable but not much anymore.

I think everbody has a favorite that gets the most use but I wouldn't bet on a person who has one rifle against a person that has a half a dozen or more.


--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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Gibbs505
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Reged: 09/08/03
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Re: The 300 magnum [Re: mickey]
      #14290 - 04/05/04 02:56 PM

It all comes down to one thing:

practise, practise, practise, practise,

--------------------
So I can't spell, so what?

Those who beat their swords into ploughshares, will plough for those who don't!

Those who fail to learn from history will be doomed to repeat it

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M82A1Barret50Cal
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Reged: 12/04/04
Posts: 96
Loc: ACT, Australia
Re: The 300 magnum [Re: Gibbs505]
      #14339 - 05/05/04 03:37 PM

With enough practice you can take just about any game with just about any rifle (within reason, you couldn't take a elephant with a .22 short). I remember hearing about one ivory hunter (I'm not good with names, someone else might remember his name) who used to use a .243 for all his hunting. His gun bearer used to carry a .600NE double in case one charger but aparently it was never used. But that is an extreme really, I would say maybe something slightly bigger, Midnight is a big fan of the .338 Lapua mag, I would go with the 375H&H for an all around. But once again, why only own 1 rifle???

M82A1

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IronBuck
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Reged: 11/01/03
Posts: 237
Loc: Pittsburgh PA, USA
Re: The 300 magnum [Re: 475Guy]
      #14381 - 06/05/04 08:35 AM

I am on my SECOND M70 classic CRF. The first one ould not do better than 3 MOA no matter what I did with it My lever actions do better than that! I expected so much more from The riflemans rifle .

My current M70 is a 30-06 stainless & wood model with the BOSS. The BOSS is ugly. The BOSS is loud..............BUT the BOSS works! I get 1/2" groups with 165 grain factory Remington Core Lockts. Because it shoots so wellI will keep and use it "as is". Aside from the BOSS is is a very nice looking rifle. I just wish Winchester would do a bit better with the quality. My current model has a PLASTIC follower While this is easily changed.....I wish that Winchester would not have offered it this way to begin with. It does work but..............it is cheap. They used it only to save money as far as I can see.






While so many people praise the M70. I think my Ruger M77 MArk IIs are better values, and are of better quality. The actions are smooter and tighter than my M70. They all (3) shoot at MOA or better with multiple factory ammo. I am currenntly having one turned into a 458 Win Mag. It will be my first true Big bore

Edited by IronBuck (06/05/04 11:37 PM)

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allenday
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Reged: 18/04/04
Posts: 318
Re: The 300 magnum [Re: iqbal]
      #14415 - 07/05/04 12:29 AM

The .300 Win. Mag. has been my favorite all-around hunting cartridge for the last ten years. I've used it on everything from Coues deer to elk and moose, and from Damaraland dik dik to Patterson's eland. It's never let me down, and I swear by it. Just about everything I've shot with it has gone down right away, and for some reason it's just been a very lucky round for me--sort of my own personal trademark cartridge, in a sense. If I had only one cartridge to select for the balance of my hunting career, it would be a .300 Win. Mag., no question about it.

I read an interview with Weatherby Award winner James Mellon recently, and in that article Mellon stated that he had literally taken all of the world's big game with a .300 Win. Mag., and if you know anything about Mr. Mellon, you know that takes in some considerable territory.

My local friend, Dr. Gerald Warnock, is another Weatherby Award winner who has also taken nearly all of the world's big game species with a .300 magnum, only his choice is the .300 Weatherby. He's been shooting the same rifle for over forty years, and he's gone through at least five barrels on that rifle! A very, very smart and capable man, and a succcess in everything he has set his hand to.....

Come to think of it, lots of award-winning, globe-trotting hunters have relied very heavily on .300 magnums over the last fifty-some years. Most of these guys are more into hunting than guns, and they want a reliable rifle that meets most requirements without a lot of fuss or second-guessing.

AD

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DPhillips
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Reged: 09/10/03
Posts: 819
Loc: Alaska
Re: The 300 magnum [Re: allenday]
      #14434 - 07/05/04 02:42 AM

Don't forget Elgin Gates and his 300 Wby.

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Nick_Adams
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Reged: 20/12/03
Posts: 148
Loc: USA
Re: The 300 magnum [Re: DPhillips]
      #14766 - 14/05/04 10:26 AM

I'd have to add that my 300 H&H, the "original" 300 Magnum, is a great all-around caliber.

Mine's a Ruger #1 single-shot. It's exceptionally accurate, sports a 26" barrel and has a nice smooth trigger.

Of course, I handload a lot for it, but the rifle shoots tightly with the Federal's 180gn Nosler load too.

I wouldn't hesitate to take it to Africa for plains game.

--------------------
________________________________

Remember ...

"Only accurate rifles are interesting."

.300 H&H.


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DPhillips
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Reged: 09/10/03
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Re: The 300 magnum [Re: Nick_Adams]
      #14767 - 14/05/04 10:37 AM

I agree with you Nick. I just bought a pre-64 M70 in 300 H&H a few months ago. It'll be in my camps this fall here in Alaska.

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Nick_Adams
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Re: The 300 magnum [Re: DPhillips]
      #14810 - 15/05/04 10:38 AM

DPhillips:

Just curious, but what will you be using it on? Bear, elk, caribou?

The reason I ask is, I've wanted to hunt brown bear up there, but was told by an experienced hunter who's hunted Alaska several times (and taken Grizzlies) that the 300 H&H is "not enough" for the big bruins, especially from a single shot (Ruger #1). He seemed to feel that a bear hunt using my single-shot was too risky, even if backed-up by a PH with a 416 or 458WM.

He recommended taking a bolt instead in .338 WM or .375H&H (which I have in a BRNO 602). He also said the "minimum" 300 mag to use against bears was a 300 Weatherby.

--------------------
________________________________

Remember ...

"Only accurate rifles are interesting."

.300 H&H.


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DPhillips
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Reged: 09/10/03
Posts: 819
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Re: The 300 magnum [Re: Nick_Adams]
      #14812 - 15/05/04 10:45 AM

Just depends on where and how I am hunting. If I'm hunting moose along the coast in the thickets or where visibility is limited, I use a large bore rifle with heavy bullets that are suited for bear. However, if I'm hunting in the mountains for sheep, where visibility is good, the 300 H&H (or any like classed cartridge) is fine.

Notice I didn't say that brown bear or grizzly bear was my primary target. If I go after brown bear, you bet I carry something like a 338 for minimum up to, maybe, my 500 Jeffery.

If I sheep hunt in a beary place, I make sure the rifle I have is flat shooting enough to handle the range usually encountered for sheep, but also with sufficient power for bear.

I wouldn't pack a 300 on a brown bear hunt, that may just be me, but I want something that has a bit bigger diameter hole in the bore. At a minimum, I'd go with a 338 Win Mag with 250 grain premium bullets. I'd feel more comfortable with a 416 Rigby and 400 grain bullets.

As far as elk, I haven't been lucky enough to draw a tag for our small population of elk. Caribou, I usually hunt as a combination with moose.

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DPhillips
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Reged: 09/10/03
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Re: The 300 magnum [Re: Nick_Adams]
      #14814 - 15/05/04 11:07 AM

A few other things to consider, Nick. First, if you are hunting interior grizzlies, I think you would do fine with a 300, even in the No.1. Just load it with something like a 200 grain NP or North Fork and have at it. If you are being backed up by a guide, you could use your 300. 9 out of 10 times, it will probably work okay. However, you will have to be prepared to accept that your guide may have to end up putting rounds into the bear to keep it from getting into dense brush or on a charge. I said "may", doesn't mean your bear won't drop at the shot.

If you are going to be sneaking through the alder and devils club jungles, I would prefer a repeating rifle, like a good strong CRF bolt action chambered for a more effective stopper. In this case, as I mentioned above, I'd go with a 338 minimum.

One thing I think gets crosswise on a lot of these forums is that the locals seem to use a smaller bore or less "effective" rifle than a lot of visiting sportsmen. One thing is the resident doesn't necessarily have the time limitations, and sure doesn't have the financial investments that the client does. On my sheep hunts, if I don't score, I may get to go next week or next month. A visitor isn't afforded that luxury. If I were coming up here to hunt as a non-resident, I'd want a rifle that handled the worst case scenerio. As a resident, if a bear is that close to the brush and dark is a few minutes away, I don't have to pull the trigger, I can come back and get him later.

You can bet when I go to Africa, I won't be carrying a 243 and 45/70 that limits the shots I can take on the animals I want to hunt. I will take a rifle that works in those worst case instances. I understand that the PH may feel he has to pull my bacon out of the fire, but I guarantee you my magazine will be empty.

The 300 H&H for me is my sheep rifle. I'll take on moose/caribou hunts in the interior. Hope to take a bear with it too. But it will be in a place where visibility isn't limited.

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Gibbs505
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Re: The 300 magnum [Re: DPhillips]
      #14817 - 15/05/04 12:13 PM

A 300 H&H should be plenty for what you are hunting.

With the bears, what you have to be concerned about is not hunting them, but stopping them if they are hunting you; because you did not make the first shot count!!

That is where the big bores count and I am not sure if the 388 is enough in those circumstances!

--------------------
So I can't spell, so what?

Those who beat their swords into ploughshares, will plough for those who don't!

Those who fail to learn from history will be doomed to repeat it

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AdamTayler
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Re: The 300 magnum [Re: DPhillips]
      #14834 - 16/05/04 03:13 AM

I agree that in the devil's club and dense bush of the coast that a CRF bolt action is the way to go but I would say the 300 H&H would do the job loaded with 220-250 grain bullets.

My butcher was drawn along with one of his hunting partners for grizzly and they are in the bush right now around Mackenzie. He is using his new Sako in 300 WSM loaded with Nosler Partitions which IMO is too light. I told him that if the bear was really close to bust his shoulder first but if it was 150+ yards to take heart/lung shots and then sit down and have lunch letting the bear go lay down and bleed out. What do you tell your clients? Should they shoot for the shoulder for the first shot and then take out the organs no matter what the distance?

--------------------
It's the journey, not the destination.

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DPhillips
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Re: The 300 magnum [Re: AdamTayler]
      #14837 - 16/05/04 04:35 AM

[Quote]What do you tell your clients?[/Quote]

I'm not a guide or an outfitter. Sorry if I've you guys the wrong impression.

As a hunter, I would prefer to break the bear down first. Wreck it's shoulders, no matter the distance. Don't stop shooting till its dead or gone. The very last thing you want to do is to go into the brush where the visibility is limited to "sort things out". Break the bear down, even if it is in the open and prevent it from getting into the thick stuff. That's my philosophy.

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AdamTayler
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Re: The 300 magnum [Re: DPhillips]
      #14856 - 17/05/04 01:27 AM

In reply to:

Don't stop shooting til its dead or gone



I agree. I did not mean just to take the one shot and then sit down and play cards.

I was reading a few articles by Jack O'Connor and he wrote "I've shot six grizzlies with the 180 gr, and since I haven't got eaten up by one yet, the old .30/06 must be at least adequate." Some he shot four times and he also says that for North America the 220gr is basically for Alaskan brown bears though is also good for moose and elk in the timber. All that said, he still reminds everyone to make sure the bullet construction is right for the job at hand.

--------------------
It's the journey, not the destination.

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WyoJoe
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Re: The 300 magnum [Re: Nick_Adams]
      #14976 - 19/05/04 12:37 PM

" The reason I ask is, I've wanted to hunt brown bear up there, but was told by an experienced hunter who's hunted Alaska several times (and taken Grizzlies) that the 300 H&H is "not enough" for the big bruins, especially from a single shot (Ruger #1). He seemed to feel that a bear hunt using my single-shot was too risky, even if backed-up by a PH with a 416 or 458WM."

Nick,
When I lived in Alaska one of the most popular rounds was the tried & true .30/06. There was a story in one of the outdoor magazines about a guy using one to kill a polar bear that ate a native. If it is good enough to use on bears the .300's are even better. Just remember the two main points. #1. quality bullet (Nosler PT or my favorite the Barnes X for suggestions) #2. placed in the right spot. If you do these 2 why wouldn't a Ruger #1 be perfectly fine. Some people might say you can't always put the bullet in the right spot and have to take what shot you can get. If you can't put it in the right spot DON'T TAKE THE SHOT.

I hunt with a .300 H&H and it has never let me down. The only draw back for some people is that it is a handloading only proposition unless you want to spend some major bucks for ammo. I am a handloader so it is no problem for me.


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There comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor polite, nor popular -- but one must ask, "Is it right?"

Martin Luther King, Jr.

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Nick_Adams
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Reged: 20/12/03
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Re: The 300 magnum [Re: WyoJoe]
      #15043 - 21/05/04 10:24 AM

WyoJoe:

Thanks for the input!

--------------------
________________________________

Remember ...

"Only accurate rifles are interesting."

.300 H&H.


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magnum308
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Reged: 19/05/04
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Loc: Brisbane, Australia
Re: The 300 magnum [Re: DPhillips]
      #15761 - 12/06/04 11:51 PM

I agree. The 300 mags are as close to the alround rifle as you can get. I have a classic custom in 308 Norma Magnum, for all intents and purposes a 300 Win Mag but a better designed case for handloading.

Though I have not hunted outside Australia with it I intend to and it will be the only one of my current rifles that I take.

DPhillips, the 300 Wby was Elgin Gates' favourite and he hunted every continent with it. In fact he reputedly used it to take the 7th all time best African elephant (see my post under "Hunting in African and Hunting Dangerous Game" concerning Elgin gates.

Magnum308


--------------------
____________________________________________
Life is too short to hunt with an ugly rifle

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Nick_Adams
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Reged: 20/12/03
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Loc: USA
Re: The 300 magnum [Re: magnum308]
      #15778 - 13/06/04 11:35 AM

As stated in the "ol' 300 H&H" thread running here, I'm getting into the 200gn loads (Nosler Partitions, at this point).

In terms of 300 mags generally, what bullet-weights are you guys using and/or finding success with - either in factory or handloads? Thanks!

--------------------
________________________________

Remember ...

"Only accurate rifles are interesting."

.300 H&H.


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