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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> 'Classic' Firearms Photos & Archive
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VonGruff
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Reged: 08/02/09
Posts: 1119
Loc: South Otago, New Zealand.
Bells Rigby 303
      #139950 - 03/08/09 07:23 AM

Posted this on the Lee Speed forum as it deals with the Enfield but no replys.

I saw a picture once of the Rigby 303 that Bell used in Africa and I am not sure whether it was the one he took out with him when he went ( his finances were tight) or if it was one he had made after the ivory started to pay for things. Thought it was the best interpretation of an Enfield I had seen but can no longer locate the picture.

Would be gratefull if someone had a copy they could post along with any details of the rifle.

Thanks in advance.

Von Gruff.

--------------------
Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12

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rigbymauser
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Reged: 15/05/05
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Re: Bells Rigby 303 [Re: VonGruff]
      #140033 - 05/08/09 04:06 AM


It is my impression Bell was more found of the .303 than any other caliber. In his book " Bell of Africa" the .303 is mentioned very frequently..but they were 10 shot MkIIs , which he had war gained experience with. In his return to Afrika he gets two 10 shots Lee Enfield sportingrifle that were of some military looks, with shorter barrels, to them at £8 each.
Like Alexander Lake, Bell preferred 10 fast shots rather than 2 shots fra a heavy double.
Bell was a good friend of Daniel Fraser. Maybe he could have supplied him the .303s??.

I think Bell got to own 7 Rigbymausers in .275cal, but to this day I believe it was the .303cal that caliber made him "smallboreselephantshooting" famous.

Hope this helped...some?

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VonGruff
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Reged: 08/02/09
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Re: Bells Rigby 303 [Re: rigbymauser]
      #140040 - 05/08/09 06:31 AM

RM I found the picture I was looking for (shooting illustrated oct 08) and it dosent say it was a Rigby as I had thought but it is definately re-stocked from military (and very nicely done too) and could very well be by Fraser. I have also read of his liking for the 10 shots offered by the Enfield but this picture shows a 5 shot magazine and express sights which I know he prefered for a start gravitating later to an aperture.
Gratefull for any and all information.

Von Gruff.

--------------------
Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12

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jc5
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Reged: 10/10/07
Posts: 162
Loc: West Coast, USA
Re: Bells Rigby 303 [Re: VonGruff]
      #140041 - 05/08/09 06:41 AM

Is that the American publication "Shooting Illustrated"? Can you post the pic?

5-shot mag and express sights indicate that it's a commercial sporter and not a military conversion, but I'd like to see the photo to confirm.

--------------------
Researching Lee Speeds and all commercial Lee Enfields. If you have data to share or questions, please send me a PM.

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VonGruff
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Reged: 08/02/09
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Re: Bells Rigby 303 [Re: jc5]
      #140054 - 05/08/09 01:06 PM

This is the best pic I can get from the magazine, and yes it is the US publication.



My comments will show how little I kmow about this rifle so looking forward to any insights.

Von Gruff.

Edited by CptCurl (05/08/09 08:44 PM)

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jc5
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Reged: 10/10/07
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Re: Bells Rigby 303 [Re: VonGruff]
      #140066 - 05/08/09 04:46 PM

Thanks for posting. The rifle in the photo is indeed a commercial sporter---built for sale to civilians, not part of a miltary contract. It is not a conversion from a military surplus rifle; therefore, it does not have a royal crown or a date. It was most likely built by BSA (Birmingham Small Arms). The other manufacturer was LSA (London Small Arms). If Bell purchased it from Fraser, then Fraser was just the retailer. These BSA and LSA sporters were retailed by dozens of "gunmakers" whose contribution ranged from their own custom stocks and engraving to simply putting their name on the barrel. (Fraser might have offered Bell a rifle with custom barrels, but most retailers did not change a gun to this extent). Most sporters came from BSA looking exactly like the one in the photo, with about a hundred minor variations as customer options.

However, we don't know for certain that the rifle in the photo is Bell's. The text doesn't actually make that claim. More likely it is a stock photo used as an example of the type. (The express sight on this one is a bit different than the express sights typically seen on these....but there's no sense speculating without a better photograph).

For many years, these rifles carried the stamp "Lee Speed Patents," in recognition of the patents held by J.P. Lee and J.J. Speed. Lee designed the action and Speed made some improvements. That's why these rifles are often called "Lee Speeds" even though that was never an official model designation at BSA or LSA. The heyday of these rifles was pre-WWI. By the start of WWII, they were no longer produced.

For more info on Lee Speeds, see the threads here at Nitro Express in the Lee Speed forum. I'm happy to answer specific questions, either on the forum or via PM.

--------------------
Researching Lee Speeds and all commercial Lee Enfields. If you have data to share or questions, please send me a PM.

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VonGruff
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Reged: 08/02/09
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Re: Bells Rigby 303 [Re: jc5]
      #140067 - 05/08/09 05:00 PM

jc5. information much apreciated. I have a 1899 model that could do with a tidy up. Thought I would re-do it to resemble this style of rifle. Have a couple of Mausers done in the early English style and thought this would fit right in. Will cruise back through the Lee Speed forum an see if I can get a good picture to go from.

Von Gruff.

--------------------
Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12

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jc5
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Reged: 10/10/07
Posts: 162
Loc: West Coast, USA
Re: Bells Rigby 303 [Re: VonGruff]
      #140069 - 05/08/09 06:00 PM

What 1899 model do you mean? A Remington Lee 1899?? (They made sporters of those too). Or a Lee Enfield MkI* made in 1899? If the latter, has it already been sporterized or does it still have all its military fittings?

--------------------
Researching Lee Speeds and all commercial Lee Enfields. If you have data to share or questions, please send me a PM.

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ALAN_MCKENZIE
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Re: Bells Rigby 303 [Re: jc5]
      #140077 - 05/08/09 10:10 PM

Have a look at the Rigby I posted .
You cant get a much more genuine article than that one.
It has a full barrel rib and a 5 shot magazine ,but will take a 10 shot mag as well.
Al

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949

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VonGruff
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Reged: 08/02/09
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Re: Bells Rigby 303 [Re: jc5]
      #140098 - 06/08/09 06:14 AM

Quote:

What 1899 model do you mean? A Remington Lee 1899?? (They made sporters of those too). Or a Lee Enfield MkI* made in 1899? If the latter, has it already been sporterized or does it still have all its military fittings?



It is an ex New Zealand military with the sold out of service markings but while I have been told it is a cut down Long Tom the barrel is just 25 inches looks to have an origional non adjustable front sight. Top wood is gone and forend is shortened. Butstock is not too pretty either. Barrel is good with sharp rifling but it is at the GS at the moment as I had a casehead seperation and the front part of the case is stuck in the chamber. Thought to re-stock as in the sporter style shown and tidy the chamber and barrel exterior and put on an aperture rear sight. With the sighting system at present there is no means of windage adjustment and while it will put its bullets into an agreeably small place they are a few inches to the left so it is only up to close bush work.It has not had a safety fitted nor a mag cut-off plate so thought it bo be just another one of the many old Enfields out here. I only paid NZ$50 for it a few years ago as a starter rifle for my son.

Von Gruff.

--------------------
Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12

Edited by VonGruff (06/08/09 07:11 AM)

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VonGruff
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Reged: 08/02/09
Posts: 1119
Loc: South Otago, New Zealand.
Re: Bells Rigby 303 [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
      #140102 - 06/08/09 07:12 AM

Quote:

Have a look at the Rigby I posted .
You cant get a much more genuine article than that one.
It has a full barrel rib and a 5 shot magazine ,but will take a 10 shot mag as well.
Al



That certainly is a beauty Alan. Thanks for the heads up.

Von Gruff.

--------------------
Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12

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CarlsenHighway
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Reged: 19/03/09
Posts: 149
Loc: Port Chalmers, New Zealand
Re: Bells Rigby 303 [Re: VonGruff]
      #201317 - 01/02/12 09:14 AM

Bell got his .303 that he mentions in Karamojo Bell / Bell of Africa from Army & Navy Cop-Op, these were the same as the BSA catalogue I believe. He mentions it in one of his book or articles, Karamojo Bell, I think. It would have looked the same as the one pictured above, only it had a ten round magazine.
But his first .303 was a military Lee Metford in a sporter stock. He then mentions returning to Africa after that first safari, and bringing 2 x .303 Lee Enfield sporting rifles for his second expedition. He obviously used at least three maybe four over his elephant hunting years.

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If you carry a cat home by the tail you will receive information valuable to you for the rest of your life.
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