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doubleriflejack
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Reged: 11/11/07
Posts: 352
Loc: Oregon, U.S.A.
Beige cloth, in oak and leather cases & hard leather cases
      #139784 - 30/07/09 06:39 AM

In restoring classic old British oak and leather cases, it is sometimes difficult to know the exact shade or color beige cloth to use, when the original cloth is long gone. Based on viewing numerous cases through the years, it is obvious that the British "standard colors" for beige cloth were green and red, in various shades, but a very few cases from some makers, Boswell, for example, were found with a blue beige cloth too. The Scottish makers seemed to favor colors other than green or red, and seemed to use blue as well. I BELIEVE THAT THESE CASES WERE MADE BY CASE MAKERS NOT CONNECTED TO THE GUNMAKING FIRMS, BUT WERE CONTRACTED TO BE MADE FOR THE GUNMAKERS, IS THAT CORRECT? HAS ANYONE KEPT A DIRECTORY OF MAKERS WITH BEIGE CLOTH COLORS THEY USED OVER TIME----DID ALL MAKERS USE ONE COLOR/SHADE, OVER TIME, AND NEVER CHANGE TO ANOTHER COLOR? CAN ANYONE SHED ANY LIGHT ON COLORS AND SHADES USED BY DIFFERENT MAKERS, AND WHY THOSE PARTICULAR COLORS WERE CHOSEN---ESPECIALLY THE COMMON GREEN AND RED? ANY CONTRIBUTIONS TO THE WHOLE SUBJECT OF BEIGE CLOTH COLOR/SHADE, AND ANYTHING ELSE PERTAINING TO BEIGE CLOTH USED IN GUN CASES, WOULD BE APPRECIATED.

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Paul
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Reged: 28/08/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Re: Beige cloth, in oak and leather cases & hard leather cases [Re: doubleriflejack]
      #139797 - 30/07/09 08:35 PM

'... A wife says: "Beige ... I think we'll paint the ceiling beige."'

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Reged: 01/05/04
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Re: Beige cloth, in oak and leather cases & hard leather cases [Re: Paul]
      #139799 - 30/07/09 08:49 PM

I think what Jack means to say is "baize" = the woolen cloth used to line gun cases, to cover billiard tables, etc.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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Paul
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Reged: 28/08/07
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Re: Beige cloth, in oak and leather cases & hard leather cases [Re: CptCurl]
      #139800 - 30/07/09 09:00 PM

Quite right, Captain; I was just thinking of an old joke about what prostitutes, mistresses and wives say to men in bed.

Cheers
- Paul

Edited by Paul (30/07/09 09:01 PM)


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doubleriflejack
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Reged: 11/11/07
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Loc: Oregon, U.S.A.
Re: Beige cloth, in oak and leather cases & hard leather cases [Re: CptCurl]
      #139807 - 31/07/09 03:41 AM

Roscoe,
Yes, you are right; I wasn't sure how to spell it, but a google search for Beige cloth gave me exactly what I was thinking about, so I spelled it that way. However it is spelled, as Richard Nixon once said, "I know what I meant!"


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VonGruff
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Reged: 08/02/09
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Re: Beige cloth, in oak and leather cases & hard leather cases [Re: doubleriflejack]
      #139809 - 31/07/09 06:21 AM

Just an assumtion on my part but the deep Green and red were/are the colours that show off the beautiful walnut and blued steel to thier best advantage. Seems to add a richness to the contents. The Scots national colour is blue so that is a possibility why they used it although it can sometimes "take away" from the wood's depth and colour. The same red and green were used for seat covers etc in the more expensive homes and 'çlubs' because they add to the beauty of the wood.

Von Gruff.

--------------------
Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12


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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
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Re: Beige cloth, in oak and leather cases & hard leather cases [Re: VonGruff]
      #139810 - 31/07/09 06:28 AM

VonGruff

Totally agree. I do not like the Light blue in gun cases
and am not a fan of dark blue either.


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333Jeffery
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Loc: Florida
Re: Beige cloth, in oak and leather cases & hard leather cases [Re: 500Nitro]
      #139815 - 31/07/09 09:55 AM

Did different companies use certain colors in their cases? I've seen purple used in Purdey's cases.

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Omnivorous_Bob
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Re: Beige cloth, in oak and leather cases & hard leather cases [Re: Paul]
      #139823 - 31/07/09 12:23 PM

Quote:

'... A wife says: "Beige ... I think we'll paint the ceiling beige."'




Paul, I laughed out loud when I say that line.

For some reason, my wife has never found that joke as funny as I do.

Bob

--------------------
"If we're not supposed to eat animals, how come they're made out of meat?"


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Mike_Bailey
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Re: Beige cloth, in oak and leather cases & hard leather cases [Re: Omnivorous_Bob]
      #139825 - 31/07/09 06:22 PM

Doubleriflejack, the cases were and still are outsourced, some customers specify the chap they want to make their case. I was speaking to a casemaker not long ago. Interestingly he told me that over 100 years ago the case makers often used a very very high quality velvet made only in a place in France (you can still see examples of it occasionally in old duelling pistol sets). It is not made now as the production costs were too extreme. rgds, Mike

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JTOMLINSON
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Re: Beige cloth, in oak and leather cases & hard leather cases [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #139844 - 01/08/09 03:12 AM

Mike
This is just one link for best UK made cases who regularly makes for the top UK names, if you click onto the gallery/ album link you can probably guess the makers who use TEG


www.teglondon.co.uk


Jonathan

Edited by JTOMLINSON (01/08/09 03:13 AM)


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Mike_Bailey
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Re: Beige cloth, in oak and leather cases & hard leather cases [Re: JTOMLINSON]
      #139885 - 01/08/09 09:15 PM

Hi Jonathan, I use Roland Lane, owner of Lane Leather. He has put some fabulous stuff my way and
will be doing my Holland case in Elephant (if I get one in Sept) and when the guns are ready !!
best
Mike
p.s. no relation, just a satisfied customer


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doubleriflejack
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Reged: 11/11/07
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Loc: Oregon, U.S.A.
Re: Beige cloth, in oak and leather cases & hard leather cases [Re: VonGruff]
      #140036 - 05/08/09 04:50 AM

Odd that nobody here seemed to mention anything about the British Red color so often found in oak and leather gun cases, and its relationship to red used by the British military. Red must be the British National color, or some such thing, as they had their military dress in so much red that it seemed a bit silly (made a wonderful rifle target for the enemy, during wartime, I am sure), but it was the British military way of intimidating the enemy, I think---not too smart, in my opinion. Does anyone know the connection between Great Britain;s use of red so often, and the red they so often used in gun cases? The Scots National color was blue, so was red the National color of Britain at the time?

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JTOMLINSON
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Re: Beige cloth, in oak and leather cases & hard leather cases [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #140092 - 06/08/09 04:03 AM

Hi Mike

I have some of Roland's work from his time with Westley Richards and excellent work it is too.

Is you Holland on schedul for that date ? I hope you are going for all the case tools not sure what it is but there is something intruiging about hand made case accessories french fitted around a double rifle.

Fortunately Mike Marsh is still making his fine turn screws but on a limited basis only, these have graced all the top makers fitted cases for many years now and there isquite simply nothing that compares.

Where abouts in the UK are you based?

BW

Jonathan


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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Beige cloth, in oak and leather cases & hard leather cases [Re: doubleriflejack]
      #140095 - 06/08/09 05:04 AM

Quote:

Odd that nobody here seemed to mention anything about the British Red color so often found in oak and leather gun cases, and its relationship to red used by the British military. Red must be the British National color, or some such thing, as they had their military dress in so much red that it seemed a bit silly (made a wonderful rifle target for the enemy, during wartime, I am sure), but it was the British military way of intimidating the enemy, I think---not too smart, in my opinion. Does anyone know the connection between Great Britain;s use of red so often, and the red they so often used in gun cases? The Scots National color was blue, so was red the National color of Britain at the time?




Red was an easy colour to make in the old days.

Red is also the Colour of the English flag - Red Cross on white background, otherwise known as the Cross of St George.

Wasn't really used to intimidate the enemy.

Edited by 500Nitro (06/08/09 05:06 AM)


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VonGruff
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Reged: 08/02/09
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Re: Beige cloth, in oak and leather cases & hard leather cases [Re: doubleriflejack]
      #140101 - 06/08/09 06:51 AM

Quote:

as they had their military dress in so much red that it seemed a bit silly




It must be remembered that before the Boer war (for the British) most of the military firearms were of musket design and the battle plans called for en-bloc movement of troops forward ( this had been military practice since time immemorial) with un-aimed volly fire untill closing and hand to hand took place.It was only you yanks that actually "aimed"at individual enemy. The South Africans bought the British into the "modern" era with thier tactics and this made change in uniform colour necessary in time for the Great War.

Von Gruff.

--------------------
Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12


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Mike_Bailey
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Re: Beige cloth, in oak and leather cases & hard leather cases [Re: VonGruff]
      #140127 - 06/08/09 06:59 PM

Hi Johnathan. I come over to the UK about 1 week in 6 and am usually in central London but do
visit family sometimes in Warwickshire, best, Mike (the .375 is scheduled to be finished in
Sept, I'll put some pics up when I can, the other one is going to be another year and a half at least I reckon) best, Mike


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JTOMLINSON
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Reged: 16/02/05
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Re: Beige cloth, in oak and leather cases & hard leather cases [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #140149 - 07/08/09 04:13 AM

Mike
If you are ever over and up in the Yorkshire area and fancy an impromptu visit North to York do let me know. Always pleased to meet members with the same ecclectic tastes in fine double rifles.

I have a double under build (due about 1 1/2 years), not from your chosen maker but one of our local well kept secrets Trevor Proctor in Cheshire, some embryonic photos were posted of it certain of the components on this siite some time ago, with some little luck the project will shortly resume.

I would love to see pictures once you take delivery.

Regards

Jonathan


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doubleriflejack
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Reged: 11/11/07
Posts: 352
Loc: Oregon, U.S.A.
Re: Beige cloth, in oak and leather cases & hard leather cases [Re: VonGruff]
      #140150 - 07/08/09 04:23 AM

VonGruff,
Thank you for the British historical information regarding military practice en-bloc movement foreward following un aimed volley fire, while dressed in bright red too. Hard to believe that such practice was actually done, and one is inclined to ask "what were they thinking?" From what I have read, the British tried this sort of so-called military practice, with the Americans fighting for their independence, and the British learned defeat quickly, while we shot at them from hidden camouflaged woods. Those early Americans must have thought that the en-bloc volley fire from the British, was a gift from God! I don't mean to offend anybody, only trying to state the facts.


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mickey
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Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Beige cloth, in oak and leather cases & hard leather cases [Re: doubleriflejack]
      #140152 - 07/08/09 05:00 AM

We learned that the British used Red Coats so as to disguise the blood on the uniforms. Not allowing an enemy to see you are wounded shows strength.

The French used Green and even White coats. Believing showing the blood and still advancing showed strength.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Beige cloth, in oak and leather cases & hard leather cases [Re: mickey]
      #140165 - 07/08/09 12:23 PM

Quote:

We learned that the British used Red Coats so as to disguise the blood on the uniforms. Not allowing an enemy to see you are wounded shows strength.




Red was also the martial colour of the Romans and before them the Spartans.

Which I'm sure was also part of the reason the Brits used red uniforms originally.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Omnivorous_Bob
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Re: Beige cloth, in oak and leather cases & hard leather cases [Re: mickey]
      #140167 - 07/08/09 12:27 PM

...and Mickey sets the ball at the net for the next joke.....


Is that why (insert your least favorite country here)'s soldiers used brown pants?

--------------------
"If we're not supposed to eat animals, how come they're made out of meat?"


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