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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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Morten
.275 member


Reged: 24/04/04
Posts: 89
Loc: Ås, Norway
The History of 470 NE
      #13907 - 24/04/04 04:23 AM

Hi. I thougt that this might be the forum to hunt down some historical overwiew on this old banger. Does anyone have the history of 470 N.E. or know where to find it?

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470Rigby
.333 member


Reged: 23/02/04
Posts: 328
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Re: The History of 470 NE [Re: Morten]
      #13921 - 24/04/04 04:44 PM

Morten - opinions differ, but the consensus seems to be that Joseph Lang in about 1907(or slightly earlier) introduced the .470 Nitro Express cartridge.

Quotes from "Arms & Explosives" of May 1907 partly tells the story;

"...Two new Cordite rifles have been introduced with an excess size of calibre which would allow them to escape the prohibition under the Indian Arms Act of the .450 bore". Hollands had recently introduced their .500/465 bore, and A&E went on to say.."the new Lang rifle for which Kynochs have produced two weights of bullet, viz one of 500 grains and one of 365 grains". Unfortunately, the calibre was not stated specifically, but in the same notice, A&E described it as .."the 465, .475 or whatever the larger calibre happens to be". Slack journalism, even in those days!

Langs' involvement in .470 development is further supported by the fact that prior to May 1907, "The Field" was testing a .470 calibre Lang rifle.

Despite it's obscure history, the .470 cartridge was to become entrenched as a double rifle standard of the British Gun trade; the major proponent being John Rigby, who probably made more doubles in .470 than all other calibres put together.

As such, while Lang may have invented the .470; Rigby was the gunmaker that popularised it

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Morten
.275 member


Reged: 24/04/04
Posts: 89
Loc: Ås, Norway
Re: The History of 470 NE [Re: 470Rigby]
      #13926 - 25/04/04 12:26 AM

Thank you wery much. This was very interesting!!

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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: The History of 470 NE [Re: 470Rigby]
      #13928 - 25/04/04 12:57 AM

470Rigby

You seem to have a lot of informqation that is new to me. I have most of the 'Common Fodder' but not the information like you posted above.

What books and or magazines do you recommend for more off beat information.

I enjoy your posts and look forward to them.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39261
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: The History of 470 NE [Re: 470Rigby]
      #13930 - 25/04/04 01:44 AM

Great post.

In reply to:

As such, while Lang may have invented the .470; Rigby was the gunmaker that popularised it



Good old Rigby.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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470Rigby
.333 member


Reged: 23/02/04
Posts: 328
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Re: The History of 470 NE [Re: mickey]
      #13938 - 25/04/04 01:25 PM

Mickey - I imagine that you have most of the standard references published recently?

Actually, I find some of the information published in early issues of the Big Game Rifle Club Newsletter very informative. Back then, authorities such as Wal Winfer were active members, and regular contibrutors.

Wal's knowledge is encyclopaedic and being a fellow Melbournite (one could hardly put him in the "armchair expert" category!),I have had the priviledge to have had many interesting discussions with him on subjects dear to our heart - Double and Falling Block rifles.

Wal has done us the favour of incuding some of his knowledge in his series of books on Falling Block rifles. Excellent reading that goes beyond what the titles suggest. If you can get hold of them - excellent reading.

Then there are the "Old Standards" - Burrard, Gough Thomas, J.H. Walshe, Winans, Greener, Teasdale - Buckell, Badminton Library, Lonsdale Library, etc. When I get some time, I will compile a short bibliography.

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470Rigby
.333 member


Reged: 23/02/04
Posts: 328
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Re: The History of 470 NE [Re: NitroX]
      #13970 - 26/04/04 08:56 AM

Apropos my earlier post on Rigby's involvement in the popularisation of the .470 N.E. cartridge, Rigby was right on the heels of Joseph Lang; the first .470's to appear in Rigby's books were Nos. 17414 and 17418, dated February 1908 and December 1908 respectively.

The records show that they were light for .470's and may well have been rebored from .450 before they were ever sold, presumably because they would have been unsaleable because of the bans on that bore size that most likely had come into effect while they were in production.

Several other .470's started out this way, and it was also common practice for owners to send a .450's back to the factory for re-boring to get around the prohibition.

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Gibbs505
.333 member


Reged: 09/08/03
Posts: 442
Loc: BC, Canada
Re: The History of 470 NE [Re: 470Rigby]
      #13976 - 26/04/04 10:06 AM

Very interestering, all this history. Very knowledgable folks here!!

--------------------
So I can't spell, so what?

Those who beat their swords into ploughshares, will plough for those who don't!

Those who fail to learn from history will be doomed to repeat it

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