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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Building Double Rifles & Gunsmithing
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Mauser416
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Reged: 20/06/07
Posts: 162
Loc: Corpus Christi, Texas
.458 bullet selection
      #138016 - 26/06/09 06:38 AM

I am having Jim White convert a SxS shotgun to .45 caliber DR. As all here are aware I will require a regulating load. This is where I am hoping y'all can lend a hand and would like to solicit your sagely advice.

Currently under consideration are bullet weights between 400 gr. and 500 gr. Which bullet weight do you consider the best choice? If you have a particular brand or shape that would be appreciated as well. I realize this can be highly subjective especially when one considers the potential game species involved. The next question is, what do you consider the minimum acceptable muzzle velocity for the bullet weight selected?

For the near future this will be a hog gun or shot just for the pleasure of shooting. Which bullet/velocity combination "floats your boat" for the .458 caliber.

Thanks,
Eric

--------------------
There is nothing worse in this world than an enslaved man who naively believes himself free, except, perhaps, trying to explain to that same man his predicament.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: .458 bullet selection [Re: Mauser416]
      #138064 - 26/06/09 09:25 PM

By .458, do you mean the 2.5" Winchester Case?

If so and with hogs in mind, I'd stick with 350gr. to 400gr.

There are some excellent bullets in both weights.

As to a load, pick something in the 1,800 to 2,000fps range for both bullet weights. This will keep pressures low, yet provide enough power for anything in North America.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Mauser416
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Reged: 20/06/07
Posts: 162
Loc: Corpus Christi, Texas
Re: .458 bullet selection [Re: DarylS]
      #138089 - 27/06/09 06:34 AM

Daryl,

I am using the 45-120 or 3.125" case. Jeffeosso has some load data on AmmoGuide for the 45-120 Nitro Express.

I was hoping to learn from others mistakes or regrets concerning bullet selection before I made one myself. Thanks for your feedback.

Eric

--------------------
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DarylS
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Re: .458 bullet selection [Re: Mauser416]
      #138115 - 28/06/09 12:43 AM

3 1/4" cases need attention loading. One suggestion I would make, is to use full cases of powder in that case. When Dan worked up loads for the Sharps long cases, they ran into trouble with less than almsot full cases of powder. Ringed chambers were the norm, apparently.

Check Accurate Arms site as well as Lyman Cast and standard loading manuals for data - they both have data for the 'Sharps' cases.(even though "Sharps" never chambered a 3 1/4" case) The original .45/120 was a 2 7/8" case.

You should be able to drive 400gr. well over 2,000fps and 500's to 1,800fps in that case, using appropriate powders and still keep pressures under 35,000PSI.

I think Accurate Arms only loads smokeless to the same pressure they recorded with a full case of Black Powder and standard bullet for the ctg. being tested - ie: less than 30,00PSI in the 3 1/4" case.

As to fillers, I've personally been using them for over 30 years with narry a problem - could be due to my laoding practises, maybe luck. Some guys have rung chambers using fillers - note that if using fillers, they must be FILLERS, not just a small tuft over the powder charge - as that seems to be the reason for rung chambers. Another is squibs with partial burning - then cmoplete after a pause, ie: hangfires. The bullet is launched into the bore and stops momentarily, then the charge finally catches, and the bullet acts as an obstruction - boom! One must know what one is about, when dealing with unknowns and lack of experience in loading only exacerbates the situation.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Mauser416
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Reged: 20/06/07
Posts: 162
Loc: Corpus Christi, Texas
Re: .458 bullet selection [Re: DarylS]
      #138119 - 28/06/09 02:42 AM

Daryl
Thanks for the insight. I used to reload quite often but haven''t for sometime now. I haven't used fillers before though. I'm trying to get my ducks in a row for when the time comes.

Thanks,
eric

--------------------
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Bramble
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Reged: 29/07/06
Posts: 950
Loc: England
Re: .458 bullet selection [Re: Mauser416]
      #138125 - 28/06/09 08:51 AM

There would appear on the face of it to be little point in using such a volumous case to drive 400 gn heads @ 2000 fps.
There are loads that will get close to that in a 45-70 case around the 35,000 mark and will take the uncertanty of fillers out of the equation.
If it is a fun and hog gun that will be plenty enough.

Personaly I would regulate it for an availible common 45-70 factory load and then build a handload that duplicated the balistics and regulates the same. Then shoot the hell out of the gun until you are realy good with it. The superiour bullet placment will more than compensate for a slight theoretical loss of power.

Regards

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Mauser416
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Reged: 20/06/07
Posts: 162
Loc: Corpus Christi, Texas
Re: .458 bullet selection [Re: Bramble]
      #138505 - 05/07/09 07:07 PM

Bramble,

Thanks for your advice. One thing I intend to do is "shoot the hell out of it". That is once it is finished and once I get a job that allows me to spend more time at the range...oops I mean home.

I have just started to look at bullet availability. Last time I checked around Corpus we had one or two shops that stocked .458 and I think most of their stuff has been there a few years. I haven't really started combing the internet and haven't really selected a particular brand although I am fond of North Forks.

Eric

--------------------
There is nothing worse in this world than an enslaved man who naively believes himself free, except, perhaps, trying to explain to that same man his predicament.

Edited by Mauser416 (05/07/09 07:08 PM)

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26521
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: .458 bullet selection [Re: Mauser416]
      #138516 - 05/07/09 11:49 PM

For factory load levels, I'd look closely at Speer and Remington 400 and 405gr. bullets. When driven at today's factory speeds, the Speer becomes a stiff bullet of the 2, yet the Remington will show penetration on ballistic media similar to a .375H&H with 300gr. Swifts. All at 1,320fps. See 9.3x57's Steer Head tests.

Interestingly enough, those ballistics worked 130 years ago and they'll work today.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Jeremy
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Reged: 14/05/08
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Re: .458 bullet selection [Re: DarylS]
      #139154 - 18/07/09 01:00 AM

Not sure if you are set on using cast or jacketed bullets. Hard cast can for the most part be driven faster and at lower pressures than jacketed bullets. Dave Jennings at Montana Bullet Works has a big variety of cast .458 bullets http://www.montanabulletworks.com/default.php. Also, try Beartooth bullets for cast .458 http://www.beartoothbullets.com/index.htm.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26521
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: .458 bullet selection [Re: Jeremy]
      #139158 - 18/07/09 03:09 AM

Yes - Jeremy has a point - cast will usually give 100fps higher speed with the same load as for a jacketed bullet. It was for that reason, Elmer suggested I use full power loads with the bluff-nosed Lyman 560gr. in my .458 2" for Africa. With them, I could get 1,950fps.

I would think a 500gr. from the double shotgun action would be maxed out in the 1,600fps to 1,800fps range, depending on the case used.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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