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9.3x57
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Hunt Gone Awry? Your call...
      #134374 - 04/05/09 07:31 AM

The BB thread prompts me to post a hunt I referred to. I suppose we've all been involved with or caused a screw up, and here's one of mine, or was it...you decide...

Some years ago, I had already shot a number of black bear, but wanted to shoot one with my .44 revolver. I worked up a load, a heavy .44 Special-performance-level load due to the light Smith and Wesson Heritage Model 29-9 I was shooting, and shot-shot-shot for practice before the hunt.

Four hunters were involved; myself, my 14-year-old son, the houndsman and another fellow I did not know who had some worthless rat terriers.

Latter point is instructive, as we divided myself with the houndsman in his rig with the 3 Walker hounds and my son with the fellow I did not know and his terriers.

After rigging around for an hour or so, the strike dog went off and we turned loose both the hounds and the rat terriers. The latter took off for parts unknown and the fellow and my son spent the morning looking for the worthless little dogs.

Thus developed a strange race.

A couple hours went by. The hounds sounded like they were stopped high on the mountain, but not baying treed but rather like they were on the track. This was confusing. Then we realized the sounds were in fact moving, but very slowly. On the radio I and the houndsman heard that my son and the fellow actually crossed the path of the bear some time before. Evidently, the fellow barked at my son to shoot at the thing as it crossed a trail ahead of them. Sonny, young and feeling under pressure of an elder, did, but missed the running bear.

We raced to the spot where they were.

Upon arriving, we got the details and the fellow barked out "I'm gonna get that bear", grabbed his rifle and set off down a ravine that had to be crossed in order to get to the sound of the hounds and the bear. My son was uneasy about the whole thing, but was pretty certain he had missed. I was pissed off at myself for hunting with someone I did not know.

I grabbed my .44 and with Sonny behind me, set off as well, running, tripping, falling, climbing and sliding hard thru the thick creek brush and dog's back fir thickets on the slope of the mountain. We pushed as fast as we could, but once high up the slope heard the shift in direction of the hounds and changed our direction to the sound.

The houndsman had run lower than us and actually arrived at the bear and hounds right before we did. The other fellow was far behind.

I kneeled to get a better view under the thick boughs on an old overgrown skid trail, and there appeared the bear, jogging along, occaisionally grabbing a dog, chewing on it, and then letting go and jogging along again. This explained the strange race. Never treeing or baying, the bear just moved slowly along, fighting but never stopping for good.

At 40 or so yards I fired a shot. I held on the shoulder and swung along, giving the critter some lead and at the crack the bear dropped like a sack of rocks, still. Two dogs pounced on the bear, and...IT EXPLODED, literally launched into the air, grabbed a dog and rolled off the downhill slope into a fir thicket. I sprinted to the spot, jumped and slid down the slope and chased the bear that had now just let go of the dog and was running hard away. At about 20 yards I held for the seat of the pants and broke the trigger. The bear swung around, grabbed at its butt like it got stung by a bee and came for me. At about half the distance I held for center chest and broke the trigger again, but hit it too far back just behind the ribs, after which the bear, seemingly unconcerned about the bullet in its guts, ran into a dog that attacked it from the left side. The bear, like a mutt catching a tossed ball, engulfed the dog's head in its mouth.

I could not shoot at this point, so I ran to the bear, shoved my revolver into the hair of its chest, and fired fast double action what I thought was two rounds. The houndsman rushed up to the bear, put the muzzle of his new .444 onto its head, stood there for a second, and walked away without firing a shot.

At this point the bear lunged at me again and was literally at my ankles so I bent down and held the muzzle of my revolver on its head, or tried to, dodging his mouth and broke the trigger fast over and over again...with nothing but clicks and no bangs coming from the gun. I must have clicked a few times before reality sunk in.

I, feeling pretty lonely, reached for spare rounds from my belt loops with the bear for a moment restrained by the dogs, the bear having rolled over backwards at my feet and rose up like it was doing situps, fighting the dogs, its feet at mine. Then a flash appeared over my shoulder. My son, who had been more or less glued to my back, dove over and shoved the muzzle of his Baikal 7x57R combination gun into the bear's chest and fired the one round he had in the gun, a Sellier & Bellot 175 grain factory load. The bear relaxed, collapsed backwards, and died.

I never even got a spare round from my belt.

All three dogs were chewed up. All survived, even the one with the head wounds. The inside of the bear looked like a collander. It had 13 holes in the hide. I recovered one .44 bullet, the one that I'd shot when it was running away. Every bullet hit vitals {lungs & liver} except for the one that hit too far back, but none struck central nervous system.

There.

Lessons Learned?

Your call.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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tinker
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Re: Hunt Gone Awry? Your call... [Re: 9.3x57]
      #134380 - 04/05/09 08:09 AM

Definitely one to 'chew on' for a while...



Sounds like a lively day chasing hounds though!



Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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500grains
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Re: Hunt Gone Awry? Your call... [Re: tinker]
      #134382 - 04/05/09 09:24 AM

Sounds like a fun hunt!!

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450_EXPRESS
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Reged: 04/01/09
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Re: Hunt Gone Awry? Your call... [Re: 500grains]
      #134398 - 04/05/09 01:21 PM

Heck of a hunt! Good story to remember everytime you look at the hide.

As far as lessons, I'd say maybe check your gun after firing a bunch before getting back into it. Or failing that keep a kid you can trust close by and handy!

I'd do have a couple questions on the man with the hounds though. I would think the guy you didn't know was with him? Why would he let him run those rat dogs with the Walkers? Also why didn't he shoot when he had the muzzle of his rifle on the bears head instead of walking away leaving you and his dogs with a wounded mad bear and what turned out to be an empty gun? (although of course you didn't know that at the time).

Just curious, did that guy ever get his Rat Terriers back?

Again heck of a hunt, very good father- son team work.


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9.3x57
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Re: Hunt Gone Awry? Your call... [Re: 450_EXPRESS]
      #134406 - 04/05/09 01:53 PM

450;

The houndsman let the other guy go along. He wasn't too keen on the terriers, either, but the hounds and terriers never mixed. The terriers were nowhere near the bear during the fight.

The terrier fellow eventually found the last remaining dog. It went for a gala stroll who-knows-where...in the opposite direction from the bear!

The houndsman's gun wasn't empty...it was a new rifle he had just bought about a week before. It was a Winchester in .444 with the side safety, and the safety was on when he put the muzzle at the bear's head! His previous lever gun was an old 94 sans safety. Under the stress he forgot the safety was on and just kept pulling the trigger hard, but nothing happened. He backed off and got out of the way, and then by the time he realized the safety was on the fight was over.

For myself, I have always wondered what would have happened had I been shooting either a Keith-type or expanding bullet. The Nosler JHP's I was shooting did not open up at the 1175 fps I shot them at and punched .45 ACP-230-FMJ-type wound channels, that is, mere holes, thru the bear, with very little peripheral trauma. The holes thru the lungs were just holes, no bloodshotting at all.

I should have known by testing, except I didn't test them in my media till after!

The one bullet I recovered from the bear looked exactly like the one recovered from the media. No expansion and just a bit of lead smear off the point.

I have a load now using the Remington 240 JHP that I like, and that bullet opens at the 1200 fps speed. I mostly use a revolver for varmints, butcher stock, dogs and trapped critters, so I don't know if I'll get another chance at a bear with it but on our small bear such a load has to be better than the "hard" Nosler IMO.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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cooch
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Re: Hunt Gone Awry? Your call... [Re: 9.3x57]
      #134435 - 04/05/09 08:27 PM

The only pontification that I'm prepared to indulge in..... is that we can't depend upon animals to read the rule book.

I like what I've heard referred to as the "Old-Lady-With-a-Snake" Principle.

If it's still moving, keep hitting it.

Cheers.... Peter

--------------------
"The only logical response to an animal that lives obsessed with avoiding capture is to chase it." - Jose Ortega y Gassett


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SharpsNitro
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Re: Hunt Gone Awry? Your call... [Re: 9.3x57]
      #134465 - 05/05/09 01:28 AM

Quote:

...

Lessons Learned?

Your call.




Sounds like a total CF! Just a guess:

"What the heck was I thinking?"

"Remind me never to do that again?"

"Makes a great story though."


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DuggaBoy
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Re: Hunt Gone Awry? Your call... [Re: 9.3x57]
      #134468 - 05/05/09 02:14 AM

Hmm, reminds me of why the Gunfighters carried a second or a hideout gun

Actually, reminds me of other stories where adrenalin and circumstance overtook preparation and thought.

I think it is called experience, you know, the lessons learned when mistakes are made and we survive.

At least in flying that is what we called it

--------------------
DuggaBoy
NRA-Life
Whittington-Life
TSRA-Life
DSC


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DoubleD
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Re: Hunt Gone Awry? Your call... [Re: SharpsNitro]
      #134469 - 05/05/09 02:20 AM

Apples and Oranges, Hounds and Terriers. I heard cocker spaniels don't make good bear hunting dogs either.

--------------------
DD, Ret.


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9.3x57
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Re: Hunt Gone Awry? Your call... [Re: DuggaBoy]
      #134470 - 05/05/09 02:31 AM

Quote:

Hmm, reminds me of why the Gunfighters carried a second or a hideout gun




Yes, a "New York Reload" would have been nice.

I could have sworn I fired twice, not three times fast double action into the critter's chest, and still had one left. But after the fact my son, who was right behind me, merely told me tongue-in-cheek he heard what sounded to him like a burst from our subgun and thought, "Wow, Pops is stroking that wheelgun pretty fast"...

As for Terriers, I don't mean to disparage the breed. The ones present in this situation notwithstanding.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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DarylS
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Re: Hunt Gone Awry? Your call... [Re: 9.3x57]
      #134476 - 05/05/09 02:53 AM

MOST interesting & exciting tale, 9.3x57.
Please get some speed loaders for your M29 or Ruger Super and practise with them. IT can happen, sometimes. Some, perhaps most of us have similar tales but not as exciting. Dogs do add a 'bonus' to the story. Glad they survived.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Ripp
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Re: Hunt Gone Awry? Your call... [Re: DarylS]
      #134520 - 05/05/09 11:10 AM

9.3

Great story--

First time I had a chance to respond much---been a bit busy trying to get stuff done between the spring rain and snow storms..


Have only been on a few chases with hounds..all been for mountain lions...once things close up, definitely an adrenaline rush..would be a great time I can imagine going for bear--illegal here in Montana..

Have had a couple black bears come at me once there were hit--fortunately they have always dropped to the shot before getting too frisky...

Hope to get out and do a bit of spot and stalk in the next few weeks...

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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9.3x57
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Re: Hunt Gone Awry? Your call... [Re: Ripp]
      #134523 - 05/05/09 11:31 AM

RIPP: I have always found it odd that hounding bear is illegal there. Seems like it would be OK.

Daryl, funny you mention it...the first thing I did when I got home was to make two speedloader pouches and they are on the belt right now! Honestly, I do not know whether I'd have gotten the gun loaded regardless as my kid was on that bear as soon as he heard the "Click-Click".

After this affair, I became a bit obsessed with bullet testing, and now avoid hunting with a new bullet unless I test some and compare with others.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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gatsby
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Re: Hunt Gone Awry? Your call... [Re: 9.3x57]
      #134525 - 05/05/09 11:57 AM

Wow! Hounds, handguns, a 44 mag and a backup .444 marlin, everything necessary for a successful bear hunt. A lot more excitment than hunting over bait. I believe I would of had to touched off the 444 on the bear, why didn't the houndsman? What was the line in "Dirty Harry" Did I fire 5 shots or only four?" Your boy did good.

--------------------
"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar



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88MauSporter
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Re: Hunt Gone Awry? Your call... [Re: gatsby]
      #134594 - 06/05/09 05:59 AM

WOW! Just caught up with this. Goes to show what hunting is and what can happen. Sounds like real adventure and your son will never forget a minute of this and will tell his kids and grandkids.
Hunt gone Awry? No, hunting has it's dangers. You prepare the best you can and you learn again from the experience. Maybe next time you will have the speed loader just in case you have a rascal of a bear to deal with again. Good hunting!

--------------------
"A hunter should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everthing goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." 88MauSporter


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9.3x57
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Re: Hunt Gone Awry? Your call... [Re: 88MauSporter]
      #134692 - 06/05/09 11:35 PM

88:

There's no doubt it was exciting!!

Bear are a fascination to me. I think it is the paradox of a critter that looks like a slug but runs like a coyote. They never cease to amaze me.

We discuss this hunt all the time; what we could have done differently, etc.

Bear of whatever size are TOUGH. Incredibly tough and tenacious.

I have seen the evidence of this toughness several times, maybe the most dramatic being a hunt in the St Maries Gorge when deep at the bottom we treed a sow. It was stuck in the tree in such a ways that the only shot was thru a branch she was holding. The shot did so, and then took it thru the chest and out its back just to the side of the backbone.

The bear slid out of the tree and fell some {I'm guessing, I didn't climb it} 30 or more feet, and piled up on its head and shoulders. This alone would, you would think, be enough to do it in but the thing was also sporting two holes that added up to a mortal wound and neither the bullet nor the fall ended the day.

I was sitting on the slope, the dogs tied up as usual, and naturally expected the "work to start" {gutting and packing it out up the steep slopes}.

No dice.

The critter sort-of shook itself off and stood up and looked around at the dogs that were tied up maybe 20-30 feet away.

The houndsman started yelling "SHOOT IT! SHOOT IT!!!!"

I did, once, and as it was still moving, I shot it again.

The load was my favorite .45-70 load; 402 grain LEE cast Hollow Point bullet {wheelweights, very deep penetrating}, 1640 fps at the muzzle.

No pistol round that!! It is devastating.

And, as usual, a small bear!

Nothing should be implied by all this that bear are bulletproof. They are not. But they do not give up like some critters do when holed. They keep going and doing what they know how to do. And due to the methods used to hunt them, that usually means there are people around when they are doing it!

Even in the sixgun hunt the first shot would have killed the bear, but when?

I have no idea how much time elapsed between the first shot and the last, but I would think it could not have been more than 1 and a half minutes. In fact, I just asked my son who is eating breakfast and getting ready to go back to college. He guessed 1 1/2 minutes and then after saying that, he said "I bet it didn't even take that long."

My sentiments exactly.

Alot can happen in a minute!

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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88MauSporter
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Re: Hunt Gone Awry? Your call... [Re: 9.3x57]
      #134705 - 07/05/09 01:48 AM

Got it!
When in Alaska, we had an experience with a blackbear in a remote area. Maybe an area that animals had not seen humans for some time. this was in the early '70s. We were flown in to do essay work for a mineral claim. This was in South central Alaska. The area was not a hospital one for humans to live with all the marsh and muskeg. It did have a few bears. We landed on the lake late afternoon and set up a makeshift camp to spend the night and then head to the river area for the work the next day. During the night (say 3 in the morning, but it was daylight due to the summer sun) there was low grunts and sounds of equipment being shoved around. On waking there was the black bear about ten feet from the closest person in a sleeping bag. The bear was ripping through back backs and boxes piled up as it must have smelled the food cooked the night before.
All began yelling and then throwing sticks at the bear, but this just irritated him. He was a strange looking bear. Not very fat and with legs that seemed overly long for a bear. Scraggaly coat.
He didn't back off and kept coming toward us. One of my friends had the then new 1895 marlin in .45-70. This was loaded with jacketed handloads .405 remington bullets loaded to about the 1700 or so mark. Pretty potent.
The bear turned broad side to grab at another pile of stuff and my friend fired at the neck but in the rush hit the upper shoulder. The bear rolled but got strait up and started to raise on it's hind legs and the 45-70 roared agained with the bullet hitting center chest and nearly summersaulted the bear backward. That was all to that. Next day, some very stringy/tough bear roast in the slow cooker pot.
Sometimes you don't get the bambi reaction of run and hide from these bears!

--------------------
"A hunter should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everthing goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." 88MauSporter


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Hobbit
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Re: Hunt Gone Awry? Your call... [Re: 88MauSporter]
      #135470 - 16/05/09 11:37 AM

Wow...You just never know do you? I've never hunted bear, but I've seen a few while deer hunting here in Ohio. When I see one, or a track, I get that "maybe I'm not quite the top of the food chain" feeling while running around the woods with just a bow...

Biggest lesson I see from this, is know who you are hunting with when going after anything that could bite back. Hell, I get mad when somebody at the hunt club does something dumb while duck hunting...Not sure what I would do if I had to go hand to claw with bear...

--------------------
I have a pair of Westley Richards....socks...


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tinker
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Re: Hunt Gone Awry? Your call... [Re: Hobbit]
      #135477 - 16/05/09 12:54 PM

The first thing that comes across my mind when I see or smell bear sign...

Dinner!

Keep yourself at the top of the food chain Hobbit!
Prepared properly, bear is a very tasty treat.




Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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9.3x57
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Re: Hunt Gone Awry - Pix [Re: tinker]
      #135494 - 16/05/09 11:35 PM

Ah, bear is the tastiest meat in the woods!!! I like it even more than elk.

I rooted around and found some 35mm pic's of the surly bear in question. Sorry for the quality. Had to scan them.

Here you can see as stated it was small, no more than 150 lbs "on the hoof".



My son, pretty happy things eventually turned out as they did.



I have a theory about bear. The reason they take the punishment they do and don't just fold is that they have large lungs and the capability to store oxygen in their bloodstream. Even with vital organs shot to pieces, they are able to continue to move and, when antagonized as in a fight, will go somewhat longer than some other animals. The fact that they have really and truly massive bone means they have the skeletal structure to maintain stability and "project force" as long as the 0'2 stays in their brains. A pee-oed bear is a sight to behold.

This was not my son's first bear adventure. The year prior, when he was 13, he and I ran into another weird one.

A bear hiding in a culvert.

We weren't sure where the bear was in the culvert, so Sonny crawled down and peeked in the end of the hole........and there was the bear, growling and huffing so hard he could feel his breath!

I did not know a small, young human could spring like a cat, but that kid just left earth behind and when he landed again let us all know he found the bear!!!!!

We eventually succeeded in driving the bear out of the culvert, and it left that hole like a circus stunt man getting shot out of a cannon. We thought we were ready from our position above the culvert, but were totally surprised at the speed that thing had under its claws as it left.

We followed it with two magazineloads of .30-30 as it headed into the woods and the end result was roasts and chops.

Here we are, dirty and dusty from the day's events, and here's the bear, too...



--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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tinker
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Re: Hunt Gone Awry - Pix [Re: 9.3x57]
      #135501 - 17/05/09 02:09 AM

9.3-


I'm with you on the quality of bear meat - even better than elk.

Great photos of you and the boy. My son will be 2yrs old next month. Still a little early to get him out on a scouting run, but soon!




Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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9.3x57
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Re: Hunt Gone Awry - Pix [Re: tinker]
      #135505 - 17/05/09 02:39 AM

Quote:

Great photos of you and the boy. My son will be 2yrs old next month. Still a little early to get him out on a scouting run, but soon!




Thanks, and good for you!

When I dug these pictures out I handed them to my son who just got home from university. He has a week off then it's with the USFS for another summer of firefighting.

He took a look at the pic's and then said,

"...Pops, you sure did drag me around all over the place when I was a little kid, didn't you!"

Yes I did, and for my own sake I'm glad I did!



--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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tarawa
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Re: Hunt Gone Awry - Pix [Re: 9.3x57]
      #135539 - 17/05/09 11:15 AM

Great story. The only thing that I can say about terriers are that a bunch of them Jack Russels chased a lizard or something under my wife's car. When she got back to her car she was wondering whose tailights and wiring harness was laying on the ghround next to her car. It was from her car.

--------------------
Life is for Service


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