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Hunting >> Hunting in Africa & hunting dangerous game
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larcher
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Loc: Saverne, Alsace, France
blue clothing and African hunting
      #134171 - 02/05/09 04:40 AM

Evoked in the Britanny's thread, is the blue colour adapted for African hunting.

I remember reading something about that in African hunter magazine, I had a go and found it, an article of Dr Don Heath in the number 3 of 2005.

I hope Dr Don Heath won't frown at my quoting him.

"I learned very quickly that most of my parks game scouts struggled to see blue. A man wearing green or even government issue camo they could spot hiding in the thickest bush, but a man wearing blue overalls was far likely to be spotted by me before any of my men. Most of the local poachers knew this and blue denim overalls was the preferred camo. Time and again this happened, and when there was heavy poaching activity and my men wanted to move unseen thy ditched the new army unifroms I had scrounged for them, tossed aside their dark green parks shirts and put on the blue overalls pinched from the mechanical section. In discussing this with many ex soldiers, from both sides in our bush war, it became apparent that plain matt blue was regarded as more difficult to see by african troops that any of the European designed camo. For white soldiers though, it was the exact opposite. If there is such variation in men......what about animals."

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"I don't want to create an encyclopedic atmosphere here when we might be having a beer instead" P H Capstick in "Safari the last adventure."

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rscott
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Re: blue clothing and African hunting [Re: larcher]
      #134177 - 02/05/09 06:33 AM

tetse flies like blue as well!

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gryphon
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Re: blue clothing and African hunting [Re: rscott]
      #134178 - 02/05/09 07:08 AM

the widely held view by those that trialled the idea is that blue is the colour most likely seen by deer...dont know about men at all but it sounds a bit April foolish to me!

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tophet1
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Reged: 15/09/07
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Re: blue clothing and African hunting [Re: gryphon]
      #134179 - 02/05/09 07:36 AM

I will admit my factual knowledge in this area is scant at best and I find the use of military style camouflage somewhat unsporting. This is only a personal and again I'll admit a prejudiced view on my part.

The only scientific study that I have seen and found believable was that some ruminants can see colours to some extent. I beleive deer hunters, particularly in the USA have studied and generated much discussion on camouflage probably as much or more as the military forces. I find it hard to seperate myth from marketing from fact.

I won't go into the other principles of concealment such as shape, movement etc., All I can go on is my own observations, and in thick bush as far as colours are concerned, grey or blue is hardest for me to see.

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EricD
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Re: blue clothing and African hunting [Re: tophet1]
      #134184 - 02/05/09 08:18 AM

I have the impression that different animals have different abilities to see different colors.

I don't recall wearing much blue while hunting in Africa, so I have no personal knowledge regarding how that would work, but I have had a moose come straight at me while I was wearing blue and sitting in the middle of an animal path in the forest. The only reason it stopped and turned around to flee when it reached 2 meters in front of me was because I moved by raising my rifle. So it clearly did not react negatively to the navy blue wool shirt I was wearing. Moose don't react much or at all to red or orange either for that sake.

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ozhunter
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Re: blue clothing and African hunting [Re: EricD]
      #134189 - 02/05/09 08:59 AM

Buzz Charlton seems to wear Blue shirts often and gets close to Ele.
Or maybe its just so he is highly visible so as to prevent being shot by accident..

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9.3x57
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Re: blue clothing and African hunting [Re: EricD]
      #134206 - 02/05/09 11:50 AM

Quote:

I have the impression that different animals have different abilities to see different colors.

I don't recall wearing much blue while hunting in Africa, so I have no personal knowledge regarding how that would work, but I have had a moose come straight at me while I was wearing blue and sitting in the middle of an animal path in the forest. The only reason it stopped and turned around to flee when it reached 2 meters in front of me was because I moved by raising my rifle. So it clearly did not react negatively to the navy blue wool shirt I was wearing. Moose don't react much or at all to red or orange either for that sake.



+1

Erik, your experience with moose is similar to mine with deer and elk. Neither seem to be bothered by blue or any other color unless I'm moving, except my experience doesn't jibe with what I've read on the subject which is that blue is visible to game. I KNOW it is amazingly brilliant to me.

As for camo, I believe it "masks" a bit of movement that might occur. Whitetails can be very spooky, but under some circumstances are seemingly dumb, but MOVEMENT always gets their attention.

I taught my kids my kids they have Three Strikes; Smell, Visual Movement, Sound. They can afford one, maybe two, but if the critter sees, smells and hears you, go home and come back tomorrow. And smell is the worst offender of all.

Anyway, the absolute best camo on the planet IMHO is white on snow. Good grief, alot of critters are just plain brain dead in the presence of white snow camo against snow.

But even that is erased by smell and movement on top of it.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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Ripp
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Re: blue clothing and African hunting [Re: 9.3x57]
      #134209 - 02/05/09 12:09 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I have the impression that different animals have different abilities to see different colors.

I don't recall wearing much blue while hunting in Africa, so I have no personal knowledge regarding how that would work, but I have had a moose come straight at me while I was wearing blue and sitting in the middle of an animal path in the forest. The only reason it stopped and turned around to flee when it reached 2 meters in front of me was because I moved by raising my rifle. So it clearly did not react negatively to the navy blue wool shirt I was wearing. Moose don't react much or at all to red or orange either for that sake.



+1

Erik, your experience with moose is similar to mine with deer and elk. Neither seem to be bothered by blue or any other color unless I'm moving, except my experience doesn't jibe with what I've read on the subject which is that blue is visible to game. I KNOW it is amazingly brilliant to me.

I taught my kids my kids they have Three Strikes; Smell, Visual Movement, Sound. They can afford one, maybe two, but if the critter sees, smells and hears you, go home and come back tomorrow. And smell is the worst offender of all.

Anyway, the absolute best camo on the planet IMHO is white on snow. Good grief, alot of critters are just plain brain dead in the presence of white snow camo against snow.

But even that is erased by smell and movement on top of it.



What you say is true in my experience as well,especially when it comes to scent..while bowhunting, if an animal hears something and you wait it out, you can usually get back in the game..but IF he smells you..game over..

As to color, again with archery, one day I was shooting in an outdoor archery range..28 station..a new member started in the wrong area and blew 2 whitetail towards me..I had a bright RED t-shirt on..actually a Coca-cola t-shirt---I stood perfectly still in the trail by the target I had just pulled my arrows out of..they walked right towards me to with 10 feet ..moved along the trail and kept right on going without ever noticing me ...incredible experience but again, just showed how important wind truly is...

After that day, I have never used scents or bought the new rage in scent free clothing..if you play the wind you will never need it and if you don't play the wind..you just wasted some $$ as they will smell you anyway..scent free clothes or not..IMHO...

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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9.3x57
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Re: blue clothing and African hunting [Re: Ripp]
      #134210 - 02/05/09 12:16 PM

Quote:

if you play the wind you will never need it and if you don't play the wind..you just wasted some $$ as they will smell you anyway..scent free clothes or not..IMHO...

Ripp



WOW.

I agree 100%.

Tho, 2 five gallon bucketfulls of sheep-shit-water-slurry dumped all over the deer blinds on my ranch here do seem to mask the occaisional fart.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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beleg2
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Reged: 15/08/07
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Re: blue clothing and African hunting [Re: 9.3x57]
      #134212 - 02/05/09 12:37 PM

IMHO, the problem is movement not the color of your cloth.
I hunted for years with blue jean without notice any diference.
Even at 30 meters axis deers did not see me if Im still.

I love this picture, it looks like Pondoro do not need any camo LOL-

Thanks
Martin

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JPK
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Reged: 31/08/04
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Re: blue clothing and African hunting [Re: beleg2]
      #134215 - 02/05/09 01:28 PM

Wearing blue jeans and a blue sweatshirt, I've had whitetails within three or four FEET while on the ground with them. But move so much as a twitch and game over.

As far as scent, You can fart, smoke, have lunch, chew tobacco or do anything you want and on the ground, so long as your downwind.

In a tree stand, you can get away with "murder", with anything blowing downwind some days and deer approaching anyway, but get away with zero the next. I figure it must be something about scent drift up or down, but I have yet to put my finger on it to be able to say, "on this type of day, downwind is done or on that type of day you'll see them down wind as well."

I've hunted with Buzz and discussed the blue color. He doesn't think eles or buff see it. I think eles see just as well as they want to on any given day. But Buzz's "blue" shirts do not stand out in preson like they do in photos or video.

I've faced two elephant charges. One ele was just coming and we couldn't be sure who he was coming after, maybe just all of us though I thought me, since I was centered in his path - who knows though. The other most definitely picked out the one fellow wearing a kacki shirt amounst the rest of us wearing green shirts.

No matter what sees X color, if possible, laws etc, considered, best to be "invisible" or blend in for even those animals you are not hunting which might give you away. Squirrels, birds, etc...

I generally don't wear cammo except waterfowl hunting, but do wear muted greens and browns.

JPK

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9.3x57
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Re: blue clothing and African hunting [Re: beleg2]
      #134218 - 02/05/09 01:51 PM

Quote:





As Capstick said...THAT SHIRT!!

Did he only own one???

As for plaid, it is great camoflage, as all true Scots know...Hunting Tartan is Dress Tartan toned down with field colors...for...guess what...Hunting!

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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
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Re: blue clothing and African hunting [Re: 9.3x57]
      #134236 - 02/05/09 11:20 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I agree 100%.

Tho, 2 five gallon bucketfulls of sheep-shit-water-slurry dumped all over the deer blinds on my ranch here do seem to mask the occaisional fart.






Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: blue clothing and African hunting [Re: Ripp]
      #134314 - 03/05/09 04:03 PM

Quote:

After that day, I have never used scents or bought the new rage in scent free clothing..if you play the wind you will never need it and if you don't play the wind..you just wasted some $$ as they will smell you anyway..scent free clothes or not..IMHO..



I think the stink of the human body easily out does the effects of scent on clothing anyway.

Except maybe to other humans who might not smell a person not with obvious BO (body odour), but may smell soaps, shampoo scents etc.

***

I read deer see blue well.

Which annoyed me as I had just bought eight woollen jumpers from the company I then worked for, as they were of good quality and cheap! $80, normally $120 to $160 in shops. Had the company logo on them though. But I thought great for winter work or hunting as each one gets more ragged. All NAVY blue.

So great if they do work. However I do think there is something in blue being visible in some form to animals.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: blue clothing and African hunting [Re: NitroX]
      #134339 - 03/05/09 11:47 PM

I have, because of my place here, had the opportunity to do many homespun "experiments" with deer & elk at all times of the year. I have some dozens of deer and elk visible to me right now as I type this.

I can say that scents work...but in my experience only in LARGE quantities will they "cover" the scent of a man. When I say large, I mean very large quantities, say ten or more gallons of sheep, elk, deer, horse or cattle shit mixed in a slurry and left to ferment will create a fairly good masking scent when dumped on a blind.

Another that seems to work well is...HUMAN URINE. For years we have run experiments with false "scrapes" using 4 or so gallons of urnine, stored in jugs and mixed in the ground. Such a "scrape" placed 40 or so yards from a person will so fix a critter's attention that they seem to take little or no notice of the person. Remember, once urine is exposed to the air for a relatively short period of time, the species-specific hormones evaporate and the remaining material is similar to what every other critter eliminates. Regardless, I've seen deer eat the ground permeated by human urine.

As for blue, as long as a man is still, I don't think it matters. For that matter, a deer probably won't notice a man in blue or pink and purple polka dot stockings wearing a flamenco dress and a top hat sucking on a king-sized lollypop as long as he keeps still and doesn't send his wind into them and keeps the sucking sounds to a minimum.

And I do not believe all blue is equal. What we call "Navy Blue", a very dark blue, seems less visible than blue jeans or bright blue especially in dim light of dawn/dusk. And blue as a major terrain feature does not exist in nature except in the sky. That was the point of one study I read a while back.

HOWEVER, add movement, and then is where I believe camoflage {white on snow or other proper camo against a broken outline} does make a difference. Movement is more difficult for critters to identify if the outline of the mover is broken up, for the same reason it is more difficult for us to identify.

One last thing; time of year has a GREAT impact on the deer and elk here, especially deer. This time of year they are dumb as posts. Once the guns go off in the fall? Completely different animals.

BTW: here are some elk. Picture taken from my porch yesterday morning. They are about 100 yards away from the house.



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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: blue clothing and African hunting [Re: 9.3x57]
      #134357 - 04/05/09 02:53 AM

Human urine?

Supposedly when an less than reputable outfitter oversells his leopard quota and still has leopard hunts booked, a method to help ensure no leopard comes to the bait is to have the trackers urinate near it. What a bugger it would be to sit in a hide for hours if that was being done.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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9.3x57
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Re: blue clothing and African hunting [Re: NitroX]
      #134368 - 04/05/09 05:46 AM

Quote:

Human urine?

Supposedly when an less than reputable outfitter oversells his leopard quota and still has leopard hunts booked, a method to help ensure no leopard comes to the bait is to have the trackers urinate near it. What a bugger it would be to sit in a hide for hours if that was being done.



I have no idea what leopard or other predators like or do not like, are attracted to or not regarding urine. Based on what I've read, we do not pee near coyote traps, yotes being said to avoid it. I can't say I've ever seen a yote over one of our fake scrapes, either.

I'm talking about urine as a deer attractant. I can photo a spot where deer have literally eaten a hole in the ground where a fake scrape was placed. They seem to be interested in it at all times of the year, too.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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EricD
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Re: blue clothing and African hunting [Re: 9.3x57]
      #134370 - 04/05/09 06:58 AM

9.3,

So have you tried covering yourself in the abovementioned urine when stalking deer? I look forward to an in depth report.

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9.3x57
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Re: blue clothing and African hunting [Re: EricD]
      #134376 - 04/05/09 07:38 AM

Quote:

9.3,

So have you tried covering yourself in the abovementioned urine when stalking deer? I look forward to an in depth report.



No, not ME.

The blind.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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tophet1
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Reged: 15/09/07
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Re: blue clothing and African hunting [Re: 9.3x57]
      #134379 - 04/05/09 08:07 AM

For that matter, a deer probably won't notice a man in blue or pink and purple polka dot stockings wearing a flamenco dress and a top hat sucking on a king-sized lollypop as long as he keeps still and doesn't send his wind into them and keeps the sucking sounds to a minimum.

I'm starting to worry about you 9.3 ......

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450_EXPRESS
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Reged: 04/01/09
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Re: blue clothing and African hunting [Re: tophet1]
      #134393 - 04/05/09 12:53 PM

Quote:

For that matter, a deer probably won't notice a man in blue or pink and purple polka dot stockings wearing a flamenco dress and a top hat sucking on a king-sized lollypop as long as he keeps still and doesn't send his wind into them and keeps the sucking sounds to a minimum.







Now there's quite the mental image. I'll bet any deer glimpses that spectacle would have to go back to his buddies shaking with laughter saying "You guys ain't gonna believe this! You gotta come see"

Hmm, might work although it'd probably (or should) get you shot and who wants to be found like that!

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: blue clothing and African hunting [Re: tophet1]
      #134403 - 04/05/09 01:48 PM

Quote:

For that matter, a deer probably won't notice a man in blue or pink and purple polka dot stockings wearing a flamenco dress and a top hat sucking on a king-sized lollypop as long as he keeps still and doesn't send his wind into them and keeps the sucking sounds to a minimum.



I'm looking very forward to seeing the photos from your next safari.

Mascara and lipstick wouldn't be out of place with that outfit either!

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: blue clothing and African hunting [Re: NitroX]
      #134409 - 04/05/09 01:55 PM

Quote:

Mascara and lipstick wouldn't be out of place with that outfit either!




What happens in Idaho, stays in Idaho...

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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: blue clothing and African hunting [Re: 9.3x57]
      #134414 - 04/05/09 01:59 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Mascara and lipstick wouldn't be out of place with that outfit either!




What happens in Idaho, stays in Idaho...



.... or Namibia!

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Bonde
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Re: blue clothing and African hunting [Re: NitroX]
      #134792 - 08/05/09 03:37 AM

I recon most ruminants (domestic) actually see blue very well.

My experience with game is that without movement, you can wear whatever you want..?

A few years ago they discussed an almost similar matter in on of the farming magazines:
They found that cattle were calmer as the farmhands had blue clothing while working among the animals in the barn., rather than other colours.

Maybe thats what happens? The wild came get calm by the blue colour before, BANG, they leave for greener pastures?

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"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."
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