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HighlandStalker
.224 member


Reged: 13/01/07
Posts: 29
Loc: Christchurch, NZ
Stop Heli-hunting in NZ Petition
      #133747 - 28/04/09 05:29 PM

Please find below a link to a petition to stop the proposed inclusion of Heli-hunting under WARO (Wild Animal Recovery Operations) permits on Department of Conservation (DoC) public land.

If this amendment is passed it will allow operators with the appropriate permit to guide clients onto game using a helicopter on public land; shooting "trophy" animals from the chopper or dropping clients on the deck for the shot and/or driving game using the helicopter.

These activities go on illegally at present, mostly in the Southern Alps for Thar & Chamois.

I'm sure you all agree that these practices are unethical & unsporting and would be severely detrimental to the hunting for ethical Kiwi & foreign foot hunters using the national resource.

Please sign the petition.

http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/stop-guided-helicopter-hunting.html

Sorry my cut & paste has not worked as a hyperlink!

Thanks,

Joe


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kamilaroi
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Reged: 18/12/04
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Re: Stop Heli-hunting in NZ Petition [Re: HighlandStalker]
      #133755 - 28/04/09 06:11 PM

done. all the best in the cause. BTW Fred Hollows was my next door neighbour for many years (family still there) and I believe that he would concur with the sentiments expressed.

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JabaliHunter
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Reged: 16/05/07
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Re: Stop Heli-hunting in NZ Petition [Re: kamilaroi]
      #133759 - 28/04/09 07:35 PM

What is the reason for this being proposed? Is there insufficient culling by landowners?

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HighlandStalker
.224 member


Reged: 13/01/07
Posts: 29
Loc: Christchurch, NZ
Re: Stop Heli-hunting in NZ Petition [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #133769 - 28/04/09 09:13 PM

Aerial meat hunting is carried out on public land by operators who have a WARO permit. The proposals are for commercial aerial hunting by paying clients on the public estate. Aerial culls are carried out by DoC where required at great expense. On most Department of Conservation administered land recreational hunters are encouraged to shoot several females/juviniles per trophy male in order to keep populations at levels at or below the carrying capacity of the land.

Heli-hunting with paying clients will be of short term financial benifit to several operators although hugely detremental to the game resource in alpine areas. If allowed, these areas of public land will be shot out of mature Bull Thar and Chamois Bucks in a short period of time. The heli operators will not care, as they will have made some fast bucks, while recreational foot hunters will struggle to find mature animals.. as with deer etc. Thar & Chamois need time & hunter restraint to produce good trophies.

No other country I know of would allow people to harvest animals in such a way. Although non-native species, Thar & Chamois if managed correctly are a great national asset, in the eyes of many tens of thousands of kiwis anyway.

Joe


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peter
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Reged: 11/04/07
Posts: 1493
Loc: denmark
Re: Stop Heli-hunting in NZ Petition [Re: HighlandStalker]
      #133790 - 29/04/09 01:52 AM

done

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Cinghiale
.333 member


Reged: 15/04/08
Posts: 406
Loc: Northern Territory
Re: Stop Heli-hunting in NZ Petition [Re: peter]
      #133994 - 30/04/09 05:42 PM

Mate signed up for sure!!!!

Good luck with this. If it fails I have a ZSU 23-4 for sale that will mince any chopper the WARO/cowboys use


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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: Stop Heli-hunting in NZ Petition [Re: HighlandStalker]
      #134005 - 30/04/09 10:56 PM

Quote:

Although non-native species, Thar & Chamois if managed correctly are a great national asset, in the eyes of many tens of thousands of kiwis anyway.
Joe




Joe;

Are there any native species in the areas you identify? If so, what are they and what hunting opportuinity, if any, exists for them?

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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Bonde
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Reged: 16/02/06
Posts: 278
Loc: Norway
Re: Stop Heli-hunting in NZ Petition [Re: 9.3x57]
      #136522 - 02/06/09 02:18 AM

When is the verdict?

I'm planning a free-range hunt for thar next season, and I know for sure I'll let it be if the amendment is passed. It sure will ruin the hunting heaven of NZ.

--------------------
------------------------------------------------------
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."
Winston Churchill


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39248
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Re: Stop Heli-hunting in NZ Petition [Re: HighlandStalker]
      #136528 - 02/06/09 03:00 AM

Quote:

Heli-hunting with paying clients will be of short term financial benifit to several operators although hugely detremental to the game resource in alpine areas. If allowed, these areas of public land will be shot out of mature Bull Thar and Chamois Bucks in a short period of time. The heli operators will not care, as they will have made some fast bucks, while recreational foot hunters will struggle to find mature animals.. as with deer etc. Thar & Chamois need time & hunter restraint to produce good trophies.

No other country I know of would allow people to harvest animals in such a way. Although non-native species, Thar & Chamois if managed correctly are a great national asset, in the eyes of many tens of thousands of kiwis anyway.




Petition signed.

What a destruction of a public hunting resource if it happens.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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crkennedy1
.375 member


Reged: 05/12/08
Posts: 501
Loc: Utah
Re: Stop Heli-hunting in NZ Petition [Re: NitroX]
      #136530 - 02/06/09 03:09 AM

Petition signed - good luck

--------------------
DOUBLE or NOTHING


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Homer
.416 member


Reged: 07/04/09
Posts: 3081
Loc: Canberra, Australia
Re: Stop Heli-hunting in NZ Petition [Re: crkennedy1]
      #136690 - 04/06/09 12:17 PM

G'Day Fella's,

I just filled in the petition. Joseph, thank you for bringing it to our attention.
As I placed in the "Comment" space on the Petition site, " I once had a discussed NZ hunting guide (PC) tell me that an elderly client of his and he, once flew around and fired 23 shots, before the client finally shot a Chamois".
Now this was/is great for the chopper operators but it ain't Hunting!
PC said that these blokes have worked long and hard all there life and now that they are retired and wealthy, they still want to do all the things that others have done, when they were young and able to do it.
I say Bad Luck! You can't have your cake and eat it to!!!

HooRoo
From
Hommer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"

Edited by Hommer (04/06/09 09:12 PM)


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Stop Heli-hunting in NZ Petition [Re: Homer]
      #136697 - 04/06/09 02:45 PM

Quote:

" I once had a discussed NZ hunting guide (PC) tell me that an elderly client of his and he, once flew around and fired 23 shots, before he finally shot a Chamois".
Now this was/is great for the chopper operators but it ain't Hunting!




I agree.


Quote:

PC said that these blokes have worked long and hard all there life and now that they are retired and wealthy, they still want to do all the things that others done, when they were young and able to do it.
I say Bad Luck! You can't have your cake and eat it to!!!





True. But there is still real huunting opportunities for the elderly, unfit or infirm. Hochsitz or High seat hunting is an obvious one.

I'm too unfit to hunt the high tops for tahr and chamois, though a chamois is one of my dream trophies. It is also one of Europe's pinnacle trophies (pun intended) and reason is the terrain and fitness required.

Cheating by shooting from a helicopter or spotting from a chopper and then getting out to shoot does not interest me at all. I'd rather go without if that is what it takes, or actually get a bit fitter and do it the right way.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Homer
.416 member


Reged: 07/04/09
Posts: 3081
Loc: Canberra, Australia
Re: Stop Heli-hunting in NZ Petition [Re: NitroX]
      #137191 - 12/06/09 05:09 PM

G'Day NitroX,

There are Hard and not-so Hard areas to hunt these animals in NZ. As long as you can get about OK, go with a guide and get dropped off (by Helicopter), on the tops. Camp there and hunt from there.
Most Kiwi Guides will have easy country set aside for the less agile (was that nicely put?).

Don't expect to shoot record book animals but you may very well do this. I don't know if you are a trophy hunter or a hunter but if you are the later, you can't help but enjoy yourself. Well, apart from screaming lungs and legs!!!!!!!!!!! So work on your fitness as much as possible. A mate once put it this way- "Its the only place I've hunted, where you work up a sweat walking down hill!"
You can Never be fit enough to hunt alpine species in NZ and I assume elsewhere!

Catching a Hughes 500 to the top and back, is nothing to be ashamed of!

In good weather, there is No Better Place To Be!!!
But
In bad weather, it'll kill ya as quick as!!!

HooRoo
From
Hommer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"


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ALAN_MCKENZIE
.400 member


Reged: 24/03/04
Posts: 1214
Loc: Western Australia
Re: Stop Heli-hunting in NZ Petition [Re: Homer]
      #137286 - 14/06/09 10:36 PM

Shooting from a chopper is just that SHOOTING not bloody hunting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949


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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39248
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Stop Heli-hunting in NZ Petition [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
      #150965 - 17/01/10 11:14 PM

My comments on the site, plus voted on the poll:

Quote:


Heli-hunting if legalised will make NZ as a serious trophy hunting destination a farce.

Tahr and chamois are regarded as some of the premier chase animals, and the introduction of legal heli-hunting will taint all trophies from NZ.

Similar to "caged lion" hunts from South Africa, how will any tahr or chamois trophy be regarded as a serious fair chase trophy. Such trophies are already disallowed by most hunting organisations but ANY trophies from NZ for serious sporting trophy registers should be disallowed if heli-hunting is legalised.

In addition the pursuit of tahr and chamois by helicopter is cruel to the animals.

Game animals should be managed but not exterminated by such silly "hunting" practices.






Seriously NZ should be struck off as a hunting destination for trophy registers if heli-"hunting" is allowed. Similar to the caged deer hunting etc that is already rife.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39248
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Stop Heli-hunting in NZ Petition [Re: Homer]
      #150966 - 17/01/10 11:18 PM

Quote:

G'Day NitroX,

There are Hard and not-so Hard areas to hunt these animals in NZ. As long as you can get about OK, go with a guide and get dropped off (by Helicopter), on the tops. Camp there and hunt from there.
Most Kiwi Guides will have easy country set aside for the less agile (was that nicely put?).

Don't expect to shoot record book animals but you may very well do this. I don't know if you are a trophy hunter or a hunter but if you are the later, you can't help but enjoy yourself. Well, apart from screaming lungs and legs!!!!!!!!!!! So work on your fitness as much as possible. A mate once put it this way- "Its the only place I've hunted, where you work up a sweat walking down hill!"
You can Never be fit enough to hunt alpine species in NZ and I assume elsewhere!

Catching a Hughes 500 to the top and back, is nothing to be ashamed of!

In good weather, there is No Better Place To Be!!!
But
In bad weather, it'll kill ya as quick as!!!

HooRoo
From
Hommer




True. Need to work on the fitness part and smoke a lot less.


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Homer
.416 member


Reged: 07/04/09
Posts: 3081
Loc: Canberra, Australia
Re: Stop Heli-hunting in NZ Petition [Re: NitroX]
      #151022 - 18/01/10 11:26 AM

G'Day Fella's,

I was recently email contacted by a DoC representative (Mike Cuddihy), thanking me for my input into this discussion.
Have any others been contacted by DoC on this?

HooRoo
From
Hommer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"


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eagle27
.400 member


Reged: 24/01/09
Posts: 1124
Loc: Nelson, New Zealand
Re: Stop Heli-hunting in NZ Petition [Re: Homer]
      #151038 - 18/01/10 05:07 PM

While I don’t support the ‘official’ allowing of heli-hunting here in NZ there could be some redeeming features. As already alluded to, there is nothing really stopping this happening now and I bet it does happen. It is just down to hunter ethics as to whether one wants to or not.
The chopper boys will have no qualms over taking anyone willing to pay to shoot from a chopper or spot, drop and shoot. If you have the money they will have the time and the machine. This is not a criticism of them, just pure business.

If made official then maybe what happens now is controlled and out in the open. How you recognise trophies etc is up to those who wish to do this. I have never been ‘trophy’ orientated so have no personal interest here except I do believe in free and fair chase hunting where possible. It is here in NZ and I don’t think this is threatened by this latest development just as the heli culling never curtailed it.

Other parts of the world, Europe, Africa, etc, is now much more regulated where free hunting is long gone.

I have only shot from a chopper to obtain some chamois and tahr animals for a German professor wanting some gland samples as part of his study of these animals. It certainly does have an excitement of its own when flying and shooting up close in the steep and beautiful Southern Alps but it is not hunting as I know it. At the same time I have used choppers to get into this same rugged country, even when I was young and fit, to spend time foot hunting in the normal fashion. I don’t necessarily see the fun in a tiring backbreaking day packing in on foot enough equipment and supplies to spend a week or so hunting in good chamois and tahr country.

How many today take the slow boat to Africa and then the foot safari to get to the hunting area? Of course not it’s the modern fast jet and 4WD to get hunting as quickly as possible with the least amount of effort, and in many cases it now sounds like a dubious hunt if you bag the big trophies!

In answer to those that ask the question, yes there is insufficient control of animals by any other means other than the chopper in NZ. There are no natural enemies for our animals, huge tracts of unpopulated rugged mountainous or bush clad land, mild climate, and low people population thus low hunter population. All our game animals have flourished uncontrollably and it wasn’t until the chopper arrived on our shores that we could get some semblance of control and prevent the country being decimated by the huge herds of red deer, chamois, tahr and others. A forestry friend of mine once described the scene when he was involved in the first chopper culling of tahr in the Southern Alps, he said it was if a bag full of ball bearings had been tipped over the mountain. The great herds just poured off the ‘tops’ as the choppers started their business.

So don’t get too concerned when reading about hunting in NZ. Unless banned by the Government there will always be opportunities for all comers to enjoy what is on offer here. You have the choice; free access on foot without guides or support; hire a chopper to get you into the high mountains for free hunting; pay an outfitter to guide you into the areas by vehicle, plane, boat or chopper; pay a chopper to spot, drop and shoot; pay a chopper to let you shoot from it. Whatever floats your boat you can do here and long may that freedom of choice last. That’s what NZ is built on.


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Sarg
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Reged: 20/01/07
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Re: Stop Heli-hunting in NZ Petition [Re: eagle27]
      #151053 - 18/01/10 09:56 PM

Well Said ! !

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: Stop Heli-hunting in NZ Petition [Re: Sarg]
      #151067 - 19/01/10 01:44 AM

eagle27 and Sarg:

I have no dog in the fight but I agree 100% w/ your sentiments. Very reasoned argument, and very well said.

Just one thing. Yes, I know, my obsession...

Control your game species yourselves. Do not under any circumstances allow anyone to convince you and the Game Department of NZ to introduce large predators to bring "balance" or some such to your ecosystem. I have no idea if such ideas exist there, but heli-hunting is infinitely better than dealing with wolves, for example. This may be culturally irrelevant, but with the long history of introductions you have, I would hate to read of some group or individual or, God forbid, Member of Parliament...floating the "brilliant" idea of such a plan.

I really must get to NZ some day. Of all the wonderful input by folks from all over the world, for some reason NZ has really got my attention. Keep the NZ posts coming, and I do wish you the best in this "heli-va" dilemma you are facing...

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Stop Heli-hunting in NZ Petition [Re: eagle27]
      #151074 - 19/01/10 02:54 AM

Quote:

While I don’t support the ‘official’ allowing of heli-hunting here in NZ there could be some redeeming features. As already alluded to, there is nothing really stopping this happening now and I bet it does happen. It is just down to hunter ethics as to whether one wants to or not.
The chopper boys will have no qualms over taking anyone willing to pay to shoot from a chopper or spot, drop and shoot. If you have the money they will have the time and the machine. This is not a criticism of them, just pure business.


'

Except it is actually illegal isn't it? If someone is hurt and killed then the liability would be on the chopper outfitter and rightly so.

Quote:

If made official then maybe what happens now is controlled and out in the open.




Open slather more like it.


Quote:

How you recognise trophies etc is up to those who wish to do this. I have never been ‘trophy’ orientated so have no personal interest here except I do believe in free and fair chase hunting where possible. It is here in NZ and I don’t think this is threatened by this latest development just as the heli culling never curtailed it.




I don't personally worry about trophy registers but there is usually an assumption of free chase and sporting methods. Really it should put the caged lion hunting of SAf in the shade in comparison.


Quote:

At the same time I have used choppers to get into this same rugged country, even when I was young and fit, to spend time foot hunting in the normal fashion. I don’t necessarily see the fun in a tiring backbreaking day packing in on foot enough equipment and supplies to spend a week or so hunting in good chamois and tahr country.




Is that part of the issue? ie choppers can already be legally utilised to transport hunters to the tops. However the shooting from the chopper or spot, drop and shoot is what is now being discussed? Unless I am very wrong?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Homer
.416 member


Reged: 07/04/09
Posts: 3081
Loc: Canberra, Australia
Re: Stop Heli-hunting in NZ Petition [Re: NitroX]
      #151125 - 19/01/10 10:52 AM

G'Day Fella's,

And thanks for your input.

My biggest gripe is that these Game Animals were introduced into NZ, for Sportsmen and Women.
Some Lazy or Old Fart getting flown around harassing the animal until it is exhausted, then shooting it, I personally find offensive! (Apparently, two clients have already been killed, doing this, such is life!).

The lack of ethics with regard to the way these animals are taken is something else, as the game deserve better!
I don't have a problem with W.A.R.S. (that's business, not hunting) to control excess numbers of game or flying into and out of hunting blocks, for the purpose of on foot hunting.
Heli-Hunting is nothing more than Value Adding to the worth of a wild game animal, regardless of the ethics (or lack of), involved in taking the game animal.
And just so some Lazy or Old Fart can hang it on the wall and then lie through his back teeth, about how he got it!
NZ has more game parks than you can poke a stick at, let these same shooters go there!
The Heli-Boys will get their share from live capture of the animals, to stock the game parks!

As to Heli-Hunting, NZ's game animals deserves better!!!

HooRoo
From
Hommer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"


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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39248
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Stop Heli-hunting in NZ Petition [Re: Homer]
      #151175 - 20/01/10 12:59 AM

Quote:

G'Day Fella's,

I was recently email contacted by a DoC representative (Mike Cuddihy), thanking me for my input into this discussion.
Have any others been contacted by DoC on this?

HooRoo
From
Hommer




Yes.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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MarkR
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Reged: 29/07/07
Posts: 296
Loc: NW Vic. Australia
Re: Stop Heli-hunting in NZ Petition [Re: NitroX]
      #151256 - 20/01/10 08:43 PM

Me too !!!


Cheers,
Mark.


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Cinghiale
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Reged: 15/04/08
Posts: 406
Loc: Northern Territory
Re: Stop Heli-hunting in NZ Petition [Re: MarkR]
      #151263 - 20/01/10 10:52 PM

I'm with you Hommer,

I am in training right now to go to NZ and HUNT Tahr and Chamois the correct way. Walk my arse off and stalk into an animal as close as I can then humanely take the animal with one shot.

I have seen plenty of Tahr 'hunting' videos depicting some fat slob who harrasses a Tahr or chamois to the edge of the slope and then from 30m still in the chopper WOUNDS the animal, one they pursue the animal into a cave and 'finish it off'in the cave (firearms safety anyone?). This is not hunting and to legally sanction this will allow more cowboys into your industry.

NITROX is right its currently illegal too in NZ even though this DOC bloke wants to do it in Canterbury.

I respect the fact that you need to cull and that is not an issue anyone could argue with, but TROPHY HUNTING is not done in helicopters its done on the ground free range no ifs buts or maybes.

There is no honour and no respect hunting out of a helicopter, any man or woman doing so should be stripped of all of their 'trophies'as their sportsmanship would then be under a cloud IMO.

I do worry about NZ game animals as I worry about those here in Australia and everywhere else as they all deserve a sporting chance and dignity that this wretched idea denegrates.

Maybe its time to sell SAM's to the Kiwi's? They can have semi autos so why not throw a few Stingers there way too? This may even up the scales for the Tahr and Chamois and the ground hunters too...

MOG


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