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NitroXAdministrator
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Another try for legal Crocodile safari hunting
      #130228 - 22/03/09 02:28 PM

CULLING crocodiles or hunting them safari-style is being considered by the Northern Territory Government after an 11-year-old girl was savagely killed in a flooded creek.

Briony Anne Goodsell's remains were found by a search squad in Black Jungle Swamp on Monday.

The local girl was dragged underwater in the flooded creek at Lambells Lagoon, in rural Darwin, while swimming with friends on Sunday afternoon.

Her death has prompted renewed calls for the NT Government to implement tighter controls of the crocodile population, recently estimated to be the highest in Australia at more than 80,000.

A plan for limited trophy hunting was rejected by the Commonwealth for the first time in 2005.

The NT Government had hoped to allow fee-paying hunters to shoot 25 of the 600 crocodiles already culled from the wild each year, generating income for impoverished Aboriginal land owners.

"We remain in favour of it,'' a spokeswoman for NT Environment Minister Alison Anderson said today.

"It's an issue we will continue to pursue.''

The NT Government is currently considering the issue as part of a revised croc management plan, to be completed in a few weeks before going to the Federal Government for approval.

Meanwhile, the NT Government has also committed to having "a very close look'' at the possibility of culling under the new plan.

"We'll definitely be looking at it in the next few weeks,'' said department head Jim Grant.

NT crocodile researcher Adam Britton conceded crocodiles were moving off floodplains into freshwater areas.

"They're moving closer and closer to Darwin, into places where perhaps people don't expect to find them,'' he said.

"This trend has been noted and we know that this has been happening but this information really hasn't been getting out to the community.''

But rather than a widespread culling program, Dr Britton has called for a community awareness campaign.

His calls were backed by federal Labor MP Damian Hale, who today suggested a considered decision based on science.

"At times like these our first response is to call for a croc cull - we really have an obligation to examine the science to find the most effective means of managing crocodiles,'' he said.

The Country Liberals' Kezia Purick said there needed to be more than just an education campaign.

"There needed to be a strategic management approach,'' she said.

"Crocodiles don't respect us, they just see us as food.''

Briony's sister, aged seven, and two friends, aged 10 and 12, were swimming in the swamp when she was dragged under the water.

The horrified youngsters watched her briefly resurface with a distressed look on her face before disappearing.

In a message sent to her home town newspaper in Ipswich, Queensland, Briony's grandmother urged people to petition the Government for a cull.


"These eating machines have made anywhere where there is water a danger,'' said Lynda Bennett.

"I want anybody and everybody to help me.''

Rangers on Tuesday called off a search for the killer croc, which they believe has moved from the creek to surrounding floodplains.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,25211619-5005961,00.html

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Another try for legal Crocodile safari hunting [Re: NitroX]
      #130229 - 22/03/09 02:31 PM

Calls for tourists to kill Northern Territory crocs

By Nick Calacouras

Northern Territory News

March 20, 2009 08:24am


Crocodile


TOURISTS could soon be allowed to hunt crocodiles with the Northern Territory Government renewing a push to allow safaris to help cull the predators.

The government is expected to increase the crocodile cull in the rural area, following the death of 11-year-old Briony Anne Goodsell in Lambells Lagoon, reports the Northern Territory News.

Tourism Minister Chris Burns said he still supported calls for crocodile safari hunting.

This has renewed calls for crocodile safaris to help with the cull.

"When I was Environment Minister, I was front and centre, lobbying Canberra to have very limited croc safaris," he said.

"I'm still a supporter of that."

The previous federal government knocked back several applications for the Territory to set up a croc safari.

Dr Burns suggested a new application could be made to the Rudd Government as part of the latest review of crocodile management.

Environment Minister Alison Anderson said the government remained in favour of croc safari hunting "particularly as an enterprise opportunity for traditional owners".

She promised to pursue the issue with Federal Environment Minister Peter Garrett.

Mr Garrett's office said no proposal had been lodged for a crocodile safari. But spokesman Ben Pratt said the minister would consider an application under the legislation if one was lodged.

Ms Anderson said crocodile safaris would not solve the problem of increasing interactions between humans and crocodiles in the rural area.

"Management in these more densely populated areas requires a range of strategies, including monitoring, removal and community awareness."

She said those strategies would be set out in the updated Crocodile Management Plan, to be released soon.

The previous federal government stopped international hunters from shooting crocodiles in 2005 by banning export of trophies – skin and skulls.

However, the death of Briony Anne Goodsell's has prompted the NT Government to implement tighter controls of the crocodile population, recently estimated to be the highest in Australia at more than 80,000.

http://www.news.com.au/travel/story/0,28318,25214457-5014090,00.html

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Re: Another try for legal Crocodile safari hunting [Re: NitroX]
      #130230 - 22/03/09 02:38 PM

My comments online on news.com plus a letter to the editor of the Herald Sun:

Safari hunting of saltwater crocodiles would provide so many benefits it is astounding that it hasn't already been introduced. First hundreds of crocodiles are already taken out of the wild so that is not new at all. Money from foreign hunters spending on expensive safaris will flow to remote and Aboriginal communities. The hunting of crocodiles will help reinstore their fear of man. Important in reducing croc attacks. And it will be a great new additional money earner to the Northern Safari hunting industry.

Win Win Win Win Win situation!

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gunbug
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Re: Another try for legal Crocodile safari hunting [Re: NitroX]
      #130441 - 25/03/09 12:34 PM

Sounds like you guys need to cull some government people.I know alligator is good to eat so why not croc0dile .It makes more sense to have a hunting season with limits etc

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JabaliHunter
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Re: Another try for legal Crocodile safari hunting [Re: gunbug]
      #130458 - 25/03/09 07:49 PM

I was going to ask if it was saltwater crocodiles - the prospect of that opening up in Australia will appeal to a lot of people I'm sure. it really is nauseating that with so much evidence in support of sustainable sport hunting generating valuable revenues for local communities that it is not the default option worldwide, especially where culls are already in operation. Culls cost the taxpayer money - sport hunting generates income. D'oh!!!

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500Nitro
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Re: Another try for legal Crocodile safari hunting [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #130460 - 25/03/09 08:03 PM



Jabali

Yes, they would be Saltwater crocodiles.

Their is NO way the Gov't would let freshwater crocs be shot
under any circumstances.


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ALAN_MCKENZIE
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Re: Another try for legal Crocodile safari hunting [Re: 500Nitro]
      #131013 - 01/04/09 01:18 AM

Would it surprise you if I told you it was already happening?
Al

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949


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Re: Another try for legal Crocodile safari hunting [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
      #131053 - 01/04/09 07:35 AM

man i would like to do it the way we do it here in florida,not just sniping them on the bank,like the phrase i've heard al l to often recently stalk them with in a couple of feet use a bow attached to a float and fight them by hand till you wear theam out thhen use a bang stick,

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ozhunter
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Re: Another try for legal Crocodile safari hunting [Re: bwananelson]
      #131063 - 01/04/09 09:40 AM

Quote:

man i would like to do it the way we do it here in florida,not just sniping them on the bank,like the phrase i've heard al l to often recently stalk them with in a couple of feet use a bow attached to a float and fight them by hand till you wear theam out thhen use a bang stick,




These guys are big mothers and It would be a mission to get close enough to Bow one let alone have line strong enough.


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500Nitro
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Re: Another try for legal Crocodile safari hunting [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
      #131064 - 01/04/09 09:44 AM

Quote:

Would it surprise you if I told you it was already happening?
Al





We know that, but it just can't be advertised !!!

hell, more crocs get shot legally than people know
about and most CGAF.

There are too many crocs now anyway.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Another try for legal Crocodile safari hunting [Re: 500Nitro]
      #131085 - 01/04/09 04:33 PM

Over 600 saltwater crocodiles are legally culled already either by shooting or trapping. Often shot in the trap as well.

The NT and Qld gov'ts under the last Howard gov't asked for 25 CITES permits to be made available out of the existing 600 plus already culled for the safari industry but "green" "exploiters" like Steve Irwin publicly got it stopped. Irwin and Howard were good "mates". Anyway Howard used public money to buy the Irwin's a nice big cattle station allegedly to be used for "conservation" .... but according to the last media reports I read they were still running cattle on most of it ...

One might think Irwin and other croc "farmers" don't want the competition for wild caught / "harvested" crocs.

My opinion anyway ie the above.

NO reason justifiable for not introducing a safari industry for the saltie crocs. Their skulls and skins would make grand trophies.

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Sarg
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Re: Another try for legal Crocodile safari hunting [Re: NitroX]
      #131111 - 01/04/09 06:33 PM

Just a note John , did you know Steve Irwin was also a hunter , most will know he hunted pigs but I did see a photo of him with some Deer also !

I think you are 100% right on the Croc hunting matter too !


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500Nitro
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Re: Another try for legal Crocodile safari hunting [Re: Sarg]
      #131112 - 01/04/09 07:16 PM


Sarg


He, Steve Irwin, WAS a hunter, before the lure of Green $$$$
converted him.

He rarely admitted it in public.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Another try for legal Crocodile safari hunting [Re: 500Nitro]
      #131117 - 01/04/09 08:02 PM

Quote:


Sarg


He, Steve Irwin, WAS a hunter, before the lure of Green $$$$
converted him.

He rarely admitted it in public.




Sarge,

As 500Nitro says above. IMO he was a total sell out to the almighty dollar.


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ALAN_MCKENZIE
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Re: Another try for legal Crocodile safari hunting [Re: NitroX]
      #131144 - 02/04/09 01:28 AM

He was a total sellout to the almighty dollar untill the big STING put an end to his bullshit!
Al

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949


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Re: Another try for legal Crocodile safari hunting [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
      #131171 - 02/04/09 07:55 AM

He didn't wear enough sunscreen to protect him from powerful rays.

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500Nitro
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Re: Another try for legal Crocodile safari hunting [Re: kamilaroi]
      #131394 - 04/04/09 08:41 AM

FROM TODAY'S PAPER - ARTICLE

Gulpilil urges rogue croc trophy hunt.

ACTOR David Gulpilil reckons he can make a crocodile appear by singing it. A bloke who calls himself Crocodile Mick Pitman reckons he can make one disappear by skinning it.

About four years ago, Pitman came to Darwin after years living in hideouts in the north Queensland bush, keeping up a front as a barramundi fishermen. He says he was, in reality, an illegal croc hunter who was skinning and mounting hides and selling them on the black market.

Gulpilil, who comes from the Ramingining area in Arnhem Land and identifies with the crocodile, which is a totem from his mother's side, was looking for a way for Aborigines to take ownership of one of his people's great cultural assets.

Pitman and Gulpilil will on Monday present Environment Minister Peter Garrett with a proposal to relax Australian laws that reflect the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species (CITES), so big-game hunters can travel to the Northern Territory, shoot large problem animals and take the trophies home.

Gulpilil had rung Pitman accusing him of owing money. He'd rung the wrong bloke. Once they sorted that out, they got talking about hunting crocodiles.

"They're not looking after that animal properly," says Gulpilil, who as a younger man killed crocodiles with a spear. "People are getting bitten and we don't like seeing that meat left to rot (when problem animals are shot). We want to do it the proper way.

"The owner of the crocodile dreaming is my mother's tribe. To me, it's very important. And we want the Government to understand that this corporation has to go forward. No one's ever done this before. We're organising for a future."

Mr Garrett's office said it would give the big-game hunting proposal "thorough consideration" once it was received.

This would require the minister to try to balance the views of environmentalists and animal welfare activists with those of Aborigines, who despite popular perception rarely sing from the same song sheet.

While many far-north Aborigines have strong totemic links to the crocodile, meaning they must act in its favour, the relationship collapses when their people or interests are threatened.

It is understood Aborigines shot eight crocs when an eight-year-old child was taken on the Blythe River, east of Maningrida, in 2006.

The Northern Territory Government already issues up to 600 permits a year to capture or destroy crocodiles, including those that are attacking livestock or threatening humans. In practical terms, the issue is not about killing the animals.

It remains unlawful to export wild skins and skulls, and safari hunters, who like mementos of their exploits, won't pay to hunt unless they're permitted to take their trophies home.

Crocodiles have virtually been wiped out across Asia, and the CITES treaty is designed to stop the trade in skins and skulls in countries with depleted populations. In the Northern Territory, where crocodiles are protected, they are in abundance.

The Gupulul Marayuwu Aboriginal Corporation, of which Gulpilil's son, Jida, is a director, would organise for big-game hunters to shoot problem animals, after which Aboriginal workers would clean, tan and mount the trophies for export.

Jida Gulpilil thinks they'd pay between $10,000-$50,000 for the total service.

Hunters already fly to the Territory to shoot buffalo and banteng, a species of wild cattle, and are permitted to export trophies, but there's an emotional snag when it comes to crocodiles.

For several years, Aborigines have had support from the NT Government and the crocodile-management community for limited safari hunting as a way to encourage small business.

In considering the issue, the previous federal environment minister, Ian Campbell, sought advice from croc hunter Steve Irwin, who was against the killing of any wild animal and persuaded Mr Campbell that crocodiles could not be killed humanely. But the issue has never gone away.

The Gupulul corporation draws the line at bringing in hunters to shoot man-eaters, with Pitman saying that "to be involved in a devastating situation like that is not up my alley". And no government would ever permit such a thrill-kill anyway.

Crocodiles that attack livestock or harass weekend fishermen are a different matter. Top End station owners routinely tell of disappearing stock, or suffering horses and cattle with their faces half ripped off.

The corporation thinks Aborigines could profit by letting big-game hunters do that job.

"This is a unique animal to this land," says Jida Gulpilil, who tells a story about his father singing a crocodile up out of an Arnhem Land river so it could be shot. David Gulpilil, listening intently, moves close and studies my eyes to make sure I believe the story.

"It's a very significant and valuable asset to us as Aboriginal people," continues Jida. "People practise different ceremonies and have sacred songs about them.

"It has high cultural significance to us.

"The industry deserves our respect - and so does the crocodile. We're not going out there culling. We want to do it properly, with the other agencies out there. But it should be controlled by people who know this animal in a cultural and spiritual way."

They say they would ensure that meat from killed crocodiles would be distributed to the local Aboriginal land owners, who would also be paid a fee for the animal.

Similarly, station owners would be paid for letting hunters in.

"It's the apex predator and it's hard to hunt," says Pitman. "This is much different to hunting African crocodiles, where they all live together like bees.

"We'll be hunting one animal, which has its own territory, and you'll be pitting your wits against it."

He says hunters would be screened to make sure they could shoot straight, and Aboriginal guides would serve as back-up.

"But with the firearms they've got now, if you hit one between the front legs and the back of the head, he's finished," says Pitman.

Graeme Webb is one of Australia's most respected voices in crocodile management. He runs Darwin's Crocodylus Park and chairs the crocodile group with the International Union for Conservation of Nature.

"The Government has decided that the safari hunting of crocodiles would be a bad look - they've just taken a philosophical stand," says Mr Webb. "But exporting a buffalo trophy does not requires a CITES permit.

"Crocodiles are a renewable, regenerating resource which could be used to make money. It doesn't matter whether Pitman and Gulpilil are the people involved or not.

"Everyone knows economic development out bush is one of the great issues of this time. And it's no secret that as we discuss this, there are hunters out there taking crocodiles illegally."

Mr Webb does not believe safari hunting need be limited to problem animals. "They don't have to be pests," he says. "In Louisiana, they harvest 40,000 alligators a year and the alligator as a consequence has a higher value.

"We can't sustain that amount, but the problem we're dealing with is the image of the person who pulls the trigger. If a crocodile takes a young child, you don't bring in a hunter. You don't mix the two problems.

"The hunting of safari animals needs to be very stringently controlled. The reporting needs to be at a high level. It could be a very successful program. Some of these larger males in some rivers are beating up and killing each other.

"The issue is not really about safari hunting: it's about professional management of wildlife."

Edited by 500Nitro (04/04/09 08:43 AM)


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Sarg
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Re: Another try for legal Crocodile safari hunting [Re: 500Nitro]
      #131419 - 04/04/09 11:34 AM

Good post , Thank you , alot of it is ture too !

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ALAN_MCKENZIE
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Re: Another try for legal Crocodile safari hunting [Re: 500Nitro]
      #131467 - 05/04/09 01:01 AM



15 plus feet of pure nasty.

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949

Edited by ALAN_MCKENZIE (05/04/09 01:05 AM)


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Matt_Graham
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Re: Another try for legal Crocodile safari hunting [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
      #131589 - 06/04/09 10:55 AM

Quote:

Would it surprise you if I told you it was already happening?
Al


They are being culled under licence but they cannot be legally sport hunted. The licenced trapper must pull the trigger...

Some operators are flouting the law (allegedly) - to the potential detriment of a future safari industry.

--------------------
www.huntaust.com.au

Edited by Matt_Graham (06/04/09 11:07 AM)


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Another try for legal Crocodile safari hunting [Re: 500Nitro]
      #131612 - 06/04/09 01:35 PM

Quote:

Gulpilil, who comes from the Ramingining area in Arnhem Land and identifies with the crocodile, which is a totem from his mother's side, was looking for a way for Aborigines to take ownership of one of his people's great cultural assets.

Pitman and Gulpilil will on Monday present Environment Minister Peter Garrett with a proposal to relax Australian laws that reflect the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species (CITES), so big-game hunters can travel to the Northern Territory, shoot large problem animals and take the trophies home.




Good on Gulpilil.


Quote:

"They're not looking after that animal properly," says Gulpilil, who as a younger man killed crocodiles with a spear. "People are getting bitten and we don't like seeing that meat left to rot (when problem animals are shot). We want to do it the proper way.

"The owner of the crocodile dreaming is my mother's tribe. To me, it's very important. And we want the Government to understand that this corporation has to go forward. No one's ever done this before. We're organising for a future."





Quote:

The Northern Territory Government already issues up to 600 permits a year to capture or destroy crocodiles, including those that are attacking livestock or threatening humans. In practical terms, the issue is not about killing the animals.





Quote:

The Gupulul Marayuwu Aboriginal Corporation, of which Gulpilil's son, Jida, is a director, would organise for big-game hunters to shoot problem animals, after which Aboriginal workers would clean, tan and mount the trophies for export.

Jida Gulpilil thinks they'd pay between $10,000-$50,000 for the total service.





Quote:

In considering the issue, the previous federal environment minister, Ian Campbell, sought advice from croc hunter Steve Irwin, who was against the killing of any wild animal and persuaded Mr Campbell that crocodiles could not be killed humanely. But the issue has never gone away.




The arsehole bullshits from the grave ....

Quote:

The Gupulul corporation draws the line at bringing in hunters to shoot man-eaters, with Pitman saying that "to be involved in a devastating situation like that is not up my alley". And no government would ever permit such a thrill-kill anyway.




"thrill-kill" the words used by the fat Minister before Campbell, Amanda Vanstone ....

Quote:

Crocodiles that attack livestock or harass weekend fishermen are a different matter. Top End station owners routinely tell of disappearing stock, or suffering horses and cattle with their faces half ripped off.

The corporation thinks Aborigines could profit by letting big-game hunters do that job.






Quote:

"It's the apex predator and it's hard to hunt," says Pitman. "This is much different to hunting African crocodiles, where they all live together like bees.

"We'll be hunting one animal, which has its own territory, and you'll be pitting your wits against it."




Quote:

Mr Webb .... "The issue is not really about safari hunting: it's about professional management of wildlife."





Good article and was a front page story.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Another try for legal Crocodile safari hunting [Re: NitroX]
      #131635 - 06/04/09 06:27 PM

Sung to the tune of "US forces get the nod":

Crocodiles get the nod
It's a success for your country
Guns and crocs all in rows
Guns and clients still ask for more

All over the world the SCI
Who controls the issue
You leave us with no answer to deny
You can write your own permit

Sing me songs of saltie dying
Gulpilil too good for trying
Waiting for the next big croci dile

Will you know it when you see it
High risk children maneater crocs
Now market movements call the shots
Outfitter deals in parking lots
Waiting for croc meat tomorrow

I'm too stoned to start deciding
Pollies too scared to make decision
We're unable to make decisions
Political party line don't cross that floor
Steve Irwin can't save his life
Superboy with the bullshit wife
In the shadows of Ban the Croc we live

Sing me songs of saltie dying
Gulpilil too good for trying
Waiting for the next big croci dile




The actual lyrics

Quote:

US forces give the nod
It's a setback for your country
Bombs and trenches all in rows
Bombs and threats still ask for more
.
Divided world the CIA
Who controls the issue
You leave us with no time to talk
You can write your own assessment
.
Sing me songs of no denying
Seems to me too many trying
Waiting for the next big thing
.
Will you know it when you see it
High risk children dogs of war
Now market movements call the shots
Business deals in parking lots
Waiting for the meat of tomorrow
.
Everyone is too stoned to start emission
People too scared to go to prison
We're unable to make decisions
Political party line don't cross that floor
L. Ron Hubbard can't save your life
Superboy takes a plutonium wife
In the shadows of Ban the Bomb we live
.
Sing me songs of no denying
Seems to me too many trying
Waiting for the next big thing




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John aka NitroX

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"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Another try for legal Crocodile safari hunting [Re: NitroX]
      #131636 - 06/04/09 06:54 PM

Quote:

David Gulpilil urges rogue crocodile trophy hunt

ACTOR David Gulpilil reckons he can make a crocodile appear by singing it.

... Pitman and Gulpilil will on Monday present Environment Minister Peter Garrett with a proposal to relax Australian laws that reflect the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species (CITES), so big-game hunters can travel to the Northern Territory, shoot large problem animals and take the trophies home.







"Gulpilil, I'm with you bruder."



***

For our non-Aus members, Peter "Bald Eagle" Garrett is the Federal Minister for the Environment. He used to be a (bad) rock star and sung many anti-nuclear, leftie, anti-US songs including the one above. He walked out of President Bush visiting the Aust Commonwealth Parliament and as a result the the opposition Labor Party was on the nose with Bush Gov't. He was also a candidate for the Nuclear Disarmament Party before selling out his EXTREME leftie ideals to join the Labor Party.

Such is the Minister whom will decide if a safari industry can be established in Australia. Three (or more) previous attempts being denied by the anti-gun Howard Liberal gov't.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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ALAN_MCKENZIE
.400 member


Reged: 24/03/04
Posts: 1214
Loc: Western Australia
Re: Another try for legal Crocodile safari hunting [Re: Matt_Graham]
      #131654 - 07/04/09 12:06 AM

The correct names were on the cull permit !

Be very sure of your facts before opening your mouth.

Al

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949


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Matt_Graham
Sponsor


Reged: 26/02/04
Posts: 602
Loc: Australia
Re: Another try for legal Crocodile safari hunting [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
      #131671 - 07/04/09 02:39 AM

Quote:

The correct names were on the cull permit !

Be very sure of your facts before opening your mouth.

Al


Was that directed at me?? Why?? I was just pointing out to readers of here that they could NOT be sport hunted as some of the posts were a little ambiguous.

--------------------
www.huntaust.com.au


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