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beleg2
.375 member


Reged: 15/08/07
Posts: 591
Loc: Bahía Blanca - Argentina
Leopard charge.
      #130059 - 20/03/09 08:20 AM

Hi,
Just saw this on another forum:

http://trophyroom.com/video/BIkAidNXYP/

Just for sharing.
Thansk
Martin


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alexbeer
.333 member


Reged: 10/04/08
Posts: 389
Loc: Tasmania, Australia
Re: Leopard charge. [Re: beleg2]
      #130061 - 20/03/09 08:50 AM

Holy Cow!!!

I've heard they were fast, but I didn't know they were THAT fast. That leopard was almost impossible to see at normal speed, still blury in slow motion. WOW, I wouldn't want to face that. How was the guy who got nailed?

ALEX

alexbeer.com

--------------------

Details matter!


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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27005
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Leopard charge. [Re: alexbeer]
      #130068 - 20/03/09 10:18 AM

Not a lot of good shooting going on when it was stationary - lots of shooting, though.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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iqbal
resigned as a member


Reged: 05/02/03
Posts: 778
Loc: Karachi,Pakistan
Re: Leopard charge. [Re: beleg2]
      #130092 - 20/03/09 01:19 PM

That was enough to scare the shit out of you.

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ozhunter
.400 member


Reged: 18/08/04
Posts: 1692
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Re: Leopard charge. [Re: alexbeer]
      #130098 - 20/03/09 03:30 PM

Quote:

Holy Cow!!!

How was the guy who got nailed?

ALEX

<a href="www.alexbeer.com" target="_blank">alexbeer.com</a>



Still recovering but still hunting. Has to rest his rifle on left hand as he can't clench it yet.


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beleg2
.375 member


Reged: 15/08/07
Posts: 591
Loc: Bahía Blanca - Argentina
Re: Leopard charge. [Re: ozhunter]
      #130104 - 20/03/09 09:38 PM

Good to know he is OK.
Do you know if they use a double rifle or a shotgun?
Thanks
Martin


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Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Leopard charge. [Re: beleg2]
      #130116 - 20/03/09 11:44 PM

As I have posted before--saw one charge a friend of mine once while it was in an enclosure in S Africa..had a run of about 30 ft---fastest moving animal I have ever seen...amazing animal..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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ALAN_MCKENZIE
.400 member


Reged: 24/03/04
Posts: 1214
Loc: Western Australia
Re: Leopard charge. [Re: Ripp]
      #130118 - 21/03/09 12:33 AM

They should have been using either 10 or 12 gauge guns loaded with 00BUCK.
Gutless bunch of barstards that ran,except for the native with his fighting axe who was prepared to have a go.
Al

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949


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ozhunter
.400 member


Reged: 18/08/04
Posts: 1692
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Re: Leopard charge. [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
      #130122 - 21/03/09 02:12 AM

Quote:


Gutless bunch of barstards that ran,except for the native with his fighting axe who was prepared to have a go.
Al



The only guy running out of the firing lane was a video man, the other guy was getting in position to administer the killing shot.


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DuggaBoy
.300 member


Reged: 03/03/09
Posts: 106
Loc: Tx
Re: Leopard charge. [Re: ozhunter]
      #130130 - 21/03/09 02:56 AM

So does any one know:

Was the client the double rifle shooter?

--------------------
DuggaBoy
NRA-Life
Whittington-Life
TSRA-Life
DSC


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ozhunter
.400 member


Reged: 18/08/04
Posts: 1692
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Re: Leopard charge. [Re: DuggaBoy]
      #130135 - 21/03/09 03:24 AM

Quote:

So does any one know:

Was the client the double rifle shooter?



No, from what I was told, he is the concession holder of Omay North.


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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39889
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Leopard charge. [Re: ozhunter]
      #130186 - 22/03/09 12:13 AM

Wow first time I could view the film. The guy is lucky the leopard was shot in the film just before in the shoulder.

Greased spots!

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Leopard charge. [Re: ozhunter]
      #130204 - 22/03/09 08:11 AM

Quote:

Quote:


Gutless bunch of barstards that ran,except for the native with his fighting axe who was prepared to have a go.
Al



The only guy running out of the firing lane was a video man, the other guy was getting in position to administer the killing shot.





That was exactly how I viewed it as well.


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albertan
.333 member


Reged: 13/06/06
Posts: 432
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Re: Leopard charge. [Re: NitroX]
      #130206 - 22/03/09 08:34 AM

I enjoy the posts from the armchair bwanas who profess how to shoot and behave during such an event. Speak to experienced PH's and they will tell you that each one of these fiascos is different. The only advice I got from my PH prior to my lion hunt was to practice a minimum of twice weekly, from all types of positions. In preparation for a lion charge, I was told to get to ground level, and wait for ONE good shot. Two would be an impossibility. As I am well over six feet, shooting over a lion is all too easy during a charge, since they seem to shrink when at full speed.

I practiced dropping and shooting at 10, 15, and 25 yards. Thankfully, I did not have to when the shooting started for real. This is a very tough drill. At first the shooting was not accurate,but it did improve. Afterwards, your lower body (knees and bum) were tender for a few days. They just never seemed to toughen up.


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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Leopard charge. [Re: albertan]
      #130207 - 22/03/09 08:37 AM

albertan

that's what i did, albeit for Buffalo charges here in Aust.

Practised so that I was mentally and physically prepared.

When it came, it all flowed.


I also believe in moving to better position yourself
and keep moving if needed to get a clear shot.

Edited by 500Nitro (22/03/09 04:00 PM)


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ALAN_MCKENZIE
.400 member


Reged: 24/03/04
Posts: 1214
Loc: Western Australia
Re: Leopard charge. [Re: 500Nitro]
      #130223 - 22/03/09 01:45 PM

Albertan,what is your location,should be listed with your name.

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949


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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39889
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Leopard charge. [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
      #130237 - 22/03/09 03:03 PM

Quote:

Albertan,what is your location,should be listed with your name.




The other reason the guy may have moved his arse is so people have clear shooting paths, miss the guy being attacked and also get out of the way of any bullets path.

It didn't look to me ONE BIT like anyone in the video were running away at all.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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albertan
.333 member


Reged: 13/06/06
Posts: 432
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Re: Leopard charge. [Re: NitroX]
      #130240 - 22/03/09 06:22 PM

The Canadian province of Alberta.

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shakari
.400 member


Reged: 09/02/03
Posts: 1107
Loc: South Africa
Re: Leopard charge. [Re: albertan]
      #130242 - 22/03/09 06:42 PM

The trick with these situations is to avoid them in the first place. Every PH has his own way of conducting a hunt and my comments aren't meant to imply any criticism, but my own way of doing it works for me and l always have the client rehearse the initial shot, time and time again until I'm completely satisfied the client is gonna get that first shot right.

I use my rangefinders at the blind to measure the exact range AND height from blind to tree and make a note of approximate angle the cat is expected to be at. Then we go to a suitable spot, usually somewhere near the range and always well away from the cat set up.

Then I replicate the shot exactly, put the client in the same sort of chair with the same sort of rifle rests etc. Then I take a suitably sized cardboard box and draw a fullsize Leopard outline on it and fix a small bottled water bottle INSIDE the box where the heart of the cat would be. Then I have the box fixed up in a tree at the same range, height and angle as we can expect on the real thing........ then I sit down beside the client and tell him, he's got all the time in the world and there's absolutely no rush whatsoever, but he needs to decide where the heart of the Leopard is in relation to the outside of the box and then put at least 3 consecutive shots through the 'heart' of the animal. Since I've started using this method, I haven't had to do a single follow up on a wounded Leopard. - Note, I've still had to follow spoor, but every time it's happened, we've found the cat dead within a hundred yards or so. I'm not suggesting every PH should use my method, but it sure as hell works for me.

Let me also say that a follow up at night, is a bloody sight worse experience than a daytime follow up, because you only see the animal at the very last moment.

The right tools for the job make a big difference though. Good spot and headlights are a big help and one of those blue light Surefire Kroma is an absolute Godsend. When you buy that torch (flashlight to you Americans!), you'll think, 'eish, that's a helluva price' but when you have to use it, you'll suddenly realise it's worth it's weight in gold!

I think it was Alan mentioned using a shotgun for the follow up. FWIW, from my (albeit limited) experience, shotgun pellets, no matter what the size etc, don't penetrate the skull or musculature of the chest and are usually found just under the skin.

Also FWIW, I wrote an article on the subject for one of the mags a while ago and if anyone wants to see a copy of it, feel free to e-mail me at shakari3@mweb.co.za and I'll be happy to send you a copy.

Hope that helps

--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com



Edited by shakari (22/03/09 06:53 PM)


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9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5521
Loc: United States
Re: Leopard charge. [Re: shakari]
      #130248 - 22/03/09 11:59 PM

Interesting thread.

Shakari; I agree about the shotgun, though I have no experience shooting leopard. I do have experience shooting coyotes, monkey's and stock-chasing dogs with buckshot and the yotes & monks are very lightly-built critters, and I have tested various sizes in my media. I would not trust buckshot in the field for much unless I was absolutely certain the shot would be so close the "cloud" would be a single 12-bore knot, and if that was the case I'd be at no disadvantage with a rifle.

The stuff works on yotes and monks but that is because they are not heavily muscled. Regardless, I've had to pistol some yotes after knocking them down with buckshot. Due to the unreliability of large-size buck patterning, I started using 3-inch mag #4 buckshot and on yotes that worked OK, but then I really don't care if I have to approach a wounded yote that is still doin the kickin' chicken.

Some years ago I shot a pretty stout stray dog with a load of 00. I reckon one or maybe 2 {?}pellet got it, enough to bleed. I tracked the thing for over a half mile through thin snow and mud and dirt and eventually gave up. I had something better to do than waste my time on a dog that just had its mind changed.

Anyway, had it been a furry whirlybird like a leopard, I would not have been pleased.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5521
Loc: United States
Re: Leopard charge. [Re: 9.3x57]
      #130249 - 23/03/09 12:50 AM

One more thing Shakari;

You are to be commended for creative-thinking in setting up your shooting "game". Some scoff at such things, but in this day and age when many hunters have very little experience with their hands inside a critter, any such practice is very good lesson-learning.

I have spoken to hunters who really have no idea what is inside an animal. They gut their critter in the field in the dark, paying as little attention to the process as they can because it is "gross" and then get the butcher to do the rest, sometimes including skinning.

My kids grew up under the butchering pole so-to-speak, and were involved in agricultural clubs and such and found all that experience very helpful when they started hunting.

Also, food for thought...

A fellow I know used a US M1 .30 Carbine for years on cougar {"lion" around here} and others I've spoken to also had great things to say about that rifle for cougar hunting. Would probably make a pretty good leopard gun to for followups. Seems anemic, I know, but for close fast shooting, using soft point ammo, the round is deadly, and the guns handle like a good shotgun. I doubt they are available or even legal where the leopard are, but just a thought...

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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xausa
.400 member


Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: Leopard charge. [Re: 9.3x57]
      #130251 - 23/03/09 01:26 AM

Quote:

Shakari; I agree about the shotgun, though I have no experience shooting leopard. I do have experience shooting coyotes, monkey's and stock-chasing dogs with buckshot and the yotes & monks are very lightly-built critters, and I have tested various sizes in my media.






9.3:

Monkeys? Can you elaborate?

Re: Your comment about the M1 carbine. Audie Murphy, who knew a lot about combat marksmanship, went into action carrying a M1 carbine in his hands and a M1 rifle slung over his shoulder for long shots. John George ("A Rifleman Went To War") was also a fan of the carbine, preferring it to the Thompson SMG for close quarters work.

I would think a Model 92 Winchester in .32-20 or .44-40 or a Model 94 in .44 Magnum would be as good, if not better, and would have the advantage of not being semi-automatic. Both were designed by John Browning, a man who knew a thing or two about stock design for instinctive shooting.

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9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5521
Loc: United States
Re: Leopard charge. [Re: xausa]
      #130252 - 23/03/09 01:37 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Shakari; I agree about the shotgun, though I have no experience shooting leopard. I do have experience shooting coyotes, monkey's and stock-chasing dogs with buckshot and the yotes & monks are very lightly-built critters, and I have tested various sizes in my media.






9.3:

Monkeys? Can you elaborate?

Re: Your comment about the M1 carbine. Audie Murphy, who knew a lot about combat marksmanship, went into action carrying a M1 carbine in his hands and a M1 rifle slung over his shoulder for long shots. John George ("A Rifleman Went To War") was also a fan of the carbine, preferring it to the Thompson SMG for close quarters work.

I would think a Model 92 Winchester in .32-20 or .44-40 or a Model 94 in .44 Magnum would be as good, if not better, and would have the advantage of not being semi-automatic. Both were designed by John Browning, a man who knew a thing or two about stock design for instinctive shooting.




Monks as in red colubus in Congo almost 30 years ago.

Xausa, George's book is "Shots Fired in Anger". "A Rifleman went to War" was written by McBride.

Others liked the carbine, too. The great classic "The Jungle is Neutral", by F Spencer Chapman, DSO includes his very positive opinions of the carbine when they were dropped to guerilla groups in Malaya late in the war. Considered superb tools for hunting pigs, even with the FMJ ammo, he says few were handed in after the war was over. The handiness, lethality and the fact that all ammo made for them was NON-corrosive made them very appealing to jungle dwellers.

That tome is a must-read and still serves as a classic text for various service Escape-Evasion schools, so I am told.

Years ago, a friend in Norway told me some dropped from the air during WW2 were used for years on roedeer and such after the war. And I wonder how many still hang in barns and outbuildings in France, Netherlands, etc, etc, etc and are possibly used for this or that even today?

Xausa; I have a Winchester Trapper with 16 1/4 inch barrel in .44 Magnum. IMO, you are right. I can't imagine a finer defense gun for critters like a 150 lb cougar or leopard, especially loaded hot with good expanding bullets or Elmer's sharp-edged LSWC's.


--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

Edited by 9.3x57 (23/03/09 01:46 AM)


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shakari
.400 member


Reged: 09/02/03
Posts: 1107
Loc: South Africa
Re: Leopard charge. [Re: 9.3x57]
      #130255 - 23/03/09 03:06 AM

From my experience, even at close range a shotgun isn't worth shit. I did a night follow up a few years ago in Tanzania with my friend and fellow PH Colin Kirkham from Botswana. He had a 12 gauge and I had my .500. Thi is the follow up I discuss in the article I mentioned.

The animal charged and we both shot at the same moment when the animal was 5 or 6 yards from us in mid air........ my shot went in beside the nose and exited out his arse. Colin got in two barrels and although the shot broke the cat's jaw on both hinges, not a single pellet penetrated more than the skin.

It was that episode that made me decide to come up with my rehearsal technique......

I don't care what anyone else uses on a follow up but I'll stick with my 500.

--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com



Edited by shakari (23/03/09 03:07 AM)


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9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5521
Loc: United States
Re: Leopard charge. [Re: shakari]
      #130256 - 23/03/09 03:29 AM

Shakari:

Out of curiousity, can you legally carry a handgun in any of the countries in which you hunt?

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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