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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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stu454
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Reged: 13/05/05
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Loc: Atlanta, Georgia USA
Big Bore Bolt for N. America
      #129073 - 09/03/09 11:30 AM

Hi all,

I'd like a stainless synthetic, but I'm flexible.

A medium bore might be more practical but I've always loved the larger calibers. The only big bore rifle that I've owned so far is a Marlin 1895 in .45-70.

I've been researching factory offerings and wildcats. If I miss a good one in my list, please chime in.

.375 H&H. Little more need be said. Ammo availability and its track record are first rate. My only reservation is a lack of reduced load data for boar and deer.

.458 Win Mag. Some don't think that this is all that it could be. For North America, it would do for me. I've found some reduced data, but not as much as I'd like.

.416 Rigby. A favorite, but the price of rifles and ammo is merciless. (I'm not a fan of the CZ)

.375 Ruger. Comparisons to the H&H are covered very well in a thread here. I like the looks of this round.

.416 Rigby. This one looks good as well, but the light weight of the Alaskan concerns me. Reduced data for this cartridge might push it into the lead for me.

What do you folks think?

Thanks in advance,

--------------------
Stu

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Scott
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Reged: 11/01/05
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Re: Big Bore Bolt for N. America [Re: stu454]
      #129076 - 09/03/09 12:41 PM

Speer's reloading manual usually has reduced loads. I have had success with their 235 soft point in my 375HH. You can also download 300 or 350 soft points in the 458. Personally, the 416 does not have a large variety of bullet weights.

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thorshammer
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Re: Big Bore Bolt for N. America [Re: Scott]
      #129078 - 09/03/09 12:53 PM

What do you mean 416 doesny have much different bullet weights they offer 300,350,400,410 and 450 grainers what more could you ask for or want also rhino has 430 grainers but for north america anyone you list 375 416 458 lott or winchester is a great choice

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WyoJoe
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Re: Big Bore Bolt for N. America [Re: stu454]
      #129080 - 09/03/09 01:17 PM

In my .375 I use the Speer 270 gr. BTSP for everything. Works wonders on deer & antelope.

One antelope I shot last season was looking at me. My shot was low & hit her breast bone. It was a gory mess. But the next one was also looking at me & I took her in the chest. Classic shot & it didn't tear up much meat at all.

The bullet works well on deer also. I don't think there is much need to reduce the loads.

--------------------
There comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor polite, nor popular -- but one must ask, "Is it right?"

Martin Luther King, Jr.

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bonanza
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Re: Big Bore Bolt for N. America [Re: stu454]
      #129081 - 09/03/09 01:24 PM

First, you're going to have to ditch the stainless/synthetic idea.

What's you budget?

What a semi-custom rifle?

How about a Dakota?

I really like the .458 WM.

The .416 Taylor could be a good choice.

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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9.3x57
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Re: Big Bore Bolt for N. America [Re: bonanza]
      #129085 - 09/03/09 02:18 PM

Since you list the .375 I take it such a medium fits your description of a "big" bore.

First, there are lots of options for reduced loads in the .375. Using 5744 powder, the .375 becomes a 9.3x57 and that is a compliment, not a criticism.

Second, you haven't mentioned what you want it for, only mentioned North America.

Well, as far as North America is concerned, based on your criteria, I'd buy a Ruger M77MKII in stainless with synthetic stock in .30-06 caliber.

Then I'd have a gunsmith toss the barrel and screw on a 9.3x62 barrel, add good sights and a Leupold 2.5-8 scope.

After you did that you'd have the best North American medium you could buy in my opinion.

You'd have the many 9.3 bullets, and if you bought some bullet sizing dies, you could use any .375 lead-core bullet, too, sized to 9.3.

With a 24 inch barrel, run full throttle, you'd have 286's at 2400 fps at least, and downloads to .35 Remington-type energy performance would be a cinch.

To be honest, for a NORTH AMERICAN rifle, I really see no need for anything over .375 caliber unless you restrict yourself to shooting big bear. For an all-round, I like the 9.3x62 idea.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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Con
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Re: Big Bore Bolt for N. America [Re: 9.3x57]
      #129086 - 09/03/09 02:46 PM

One sleeper of a wildcat is the '375Taylor' loosely based on a 300WinMag opened to 375cal ... I suppose the 375Ruger makes it redundant.

The 375H&H is an extremely versatile rifle, and can be loaded to 375Win levels if needed.

Likewise the 458WinMag in a 9lb rifle shooting 350gr Hornadys at 2470fps will do just about everything you'll ever ask of it.
Cheers...
Con

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gatsby
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Re: Big Bore Bolt for N. America [Re: stu454]
      #129087 - 09/03/09 02:53 PM

Several years ago I had a custom bolt gun put together for big bore use in the States in 358 Norma mag. I had it made using non traditional space age materials. Nickle teflon finish, Lonewolf stock,Kreiger barrel and a Leupold 1 3/4 x 6 scope at 9lbs total. You have many bullets to chose from in 225gr and 250gr, a 290gr cast and a Woodleigh 310gr soft or solid. Norma factory ammo is generally available at Grafs if you donot reload.



--------------------
"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar



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450
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Re: Big Bore Bolt for N. America [Re: Con]
      #129088 - 09/03/09 02:57 PM

Why not just buy a Tika T3 in 9.3x62. Wood or synthetic stock, 3 or 5 shot mag, floating barrel, fully adjustable trigger, very smooth and very accurate. Very light. I had to put a pound of lead in mine and now IMHO it is a perfect stalking rifle. With a weaver 3.5 to 10 mounted, it is even better.

--------------------
The worst days shooting and hunting is better than the best day at work

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SharpsNitro
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Re: Big Bore Bolt for N. America [Re: 9.3x57]
      #129099 - 09/03/09 03:54 PM

Although you can't get them in stainless in anything but 30-06, 338RCM and 375 Ruger the Steyr Pro series are nice rifles. The Pro Hunter, which has a 20" barrel, can be had in 9.3x62mm; the Pro African can be had in the same caliber with a 23.5" barrel. I have the Pro Hunter in 376 Steyr (no longer offered) and its a nice rifle. I don't know what they go for new but I picked up mine used last year for $750 in mint condition.

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Der_Jaeger
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Re: Big Bore Bolt for N. America [Re: SharpsNitro]
      #129127 - 09/03/09 10:33 PM


It looks like we have a mix of big bore suggestions (.45cal and larger), as well as medium bore suggestions. In my opinion, the best medium bores for North America would be the .338 Win. mag, the .340 Weatherby, or the .375 H&H. I would pick one of the first two because there's plenty of situations where longer shots will have to be made.

For a big bore for North America, maybe the .458 Lott.

--------------------

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Marrakai
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Re: Big Bore Bolt for N. America [Re: Der_Jaeger]
      #129132 - 09/03/09 10:54 PM

So there you go, Stu.
Just about every possible cartridge from .338 to .458 is a favourite of somebody!

They are all very capable for north-American quarry, so just go with your gut.

No-one here will scoff, I promise!

Unless you persist with this stainless/synthetic nonsense.....

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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Mike_Bailey
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Re: Big Bore Bolt for N. America [Re: Marrakai]
      #129134 - 09/03/09 11:09 PM

LOL Marrakai.... just buy a .375 H&H in your favourite action There will surely be a company
out there who sell plastic stocks for your choice, best, Mike

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DuggaBoy
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Reged: 03/03/09
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Loc: Tx
Re: Big Bore Bolt for N. America [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #129159 - 10/03/09 05:13 AM

FOUR of my "American" favorite rifles are
4.)a custom Siamese Mauser in 45/70 with 405 Woolieghs @ 2020
3.)The .411 Hawk on a 1908 Mauser action with a400gr Swift @ 2100, 400 gr Hawk @ 2150.
2.) a Browning 71 in 50 Alaskan 525Gc @ 1950 and
#1.)My .405 Winchester(Gen III) with 400 gr. Swifts @ 2050 or Barnes solids(not in production).
The 1895 has been a surprising pleasure to shoot and hunt with; the Hornady factory loads with the 300 SP have been astonishingly accurate with my Climin'Lyman copy.

I realize the last two are not bolt guns ,but either could be made on a Mauser or a P14 Enfield rather easily.

(BTW, The .411 Hawk was truly an easy rifle to construct.)

--------------------
DuggaBoy
NRA-Life
Whittington-Life
TSRA-Life
DSC

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Plains99
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Re: Big Bore Bolt for N. America [Re: DuggaBoy]
      #129160 - 10/03/09 05:23 AM

I chose a Ruger African in .375 Ruger. I use the lighter soft point round. I've had Marlins in .45-70 and they are excellent and I had a Savage in .375 H&H. It was a real decent rifle in stainless and synthetic stock... and priced reasonably. The .375 Ruger is compact, a joy to carry, very quick on follow-up shots, equipped with open sights (I also have a Weaver V-3) on it, and accurate. Recoil is quite manageable. And I don't believe (and hope) that the round is not going to go away.

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Caprivi
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Re: Big Bore Bolt for N. America [Re: Plains99]
      #129173 - 10/03/09 08:18 AM

I am a big 375 fan, 458 as well. Years back I had a Ruger 77 stainless with the "chamber of Horrors" synthetic stock in 338. Great beater gun with decent iron sights. I had LaBonte rebore and chamber to 375 WBY and shortened to 20". Now a really great thumper and all weather to boot. Kicked plenty and someone talked me out of it. Later I had a Savage Stainless 458, again a useable dishwasher safe gun. I had a Hawkeye Alaskan but hated the Hogue stock and it went down the road before I restocked it. I had a Steyr Pro-Hunter 376 with the 20" barrel and deep mag, but not stainless.

--------------------
To live life as it is handed to me from God

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stu454
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Re: Big Bore Bolt for N. America [Re: Plains99]
      #129174 - 10/03/09 08:21 AM

I appreciate all of the input folks.

I'm leaning towards the .375 Ruger Alaskan since it would be ready out of the box with the addition of a Leupold 1.5-5x.

The .416 Ruger still intrigues me. I'll keep an eye on the forum for more information as they come into use.

Again, thanks all.

--------------------
Stu

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Caprivi
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Re: Big Bore Bolt for N. America [Re: stu454]
      #129176 - 10/03/09 09:07 AM

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/conten...erarchyId=11651



With the Alaskan, just make sure you can live with the stock. I hate them.

--------------------
To live life as it is handed to me from God

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stu454
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Re: Big Bore Bolt for N. America [Re: Caprivi]
      #129177 - 10/03/09 09:10 AM

Caprivi,

Is your issue with the Alaskan stock aesthetic or related to handling?

--------------------
Stu

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Ripp
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Re: Big Bore Bolt for N. America [Re: 9.3x57]
      #129181 - 10/03/09 11:38 AM

Quote:


To be honest, for a NORTH AMERICAN rifle, I really see no need for anything over .375 caliber unless you restrict yourself to shooting big bear. For an all-round, I like the 9.3x62 idea.



I am with 9.3--there is nothing on the North American continent that warrants anything larger than a .375..and in my opinion, probably the best compromise for N American game---If you are hunting the really large bears, it will do great and has plenty of power..again, shot placement is everything as in all game...and in the BIG bears..shots are usually closer than farther...
On the bears I have used the .375H&H, it has done a great job..

I prefer the .416 in Africa..but in N America..375 is the way to go...IMHO...

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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SharpsNitro
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Re: Big Bore Bolt for N. America [Re: Caprivi]
      #129195 - 10/03/09 03:16 PM

Caprivi

How did you like the Pro Hunter? I have one now in 376 as well as the 376 Scout; the Scout is an upgrade from the one in 308 that I took to Namibia last year. Sadly, Steyr isn't chambering this cartridge anymore.

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Caprivi
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Re: Big Bore Bolt for N. America [Re: SharpsNitro]
      #129235 - 11/03/09 01:57 AM

Stu- I didn't like the handling of the stock, very clubby. I had a African at the same time and that was a dream compared to the Hogue. And it is sinfully ugly.

Sharps-I liked the Steyr, it was paired with a Pro Hunter in .260rem which my younger daughter has taken over. The extended mag fed well and the sights work very well. All said and done with the various 375's I have had I really missed having a a nice oil finished wood stocked 375 H&H. That is where I am back to many, many thousand dollars later.

--------------------
To live life as it is handed to me from God

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DarylS
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Re: Big Bore Bolt for N. America [Re: Caprivi]
      #129236 - 11/03/09 02:39 AM

Just picked up the best North American hunting and guide gun - will do for everything & anything - even gophers with cast bullets or 200gr.'ers.

It's a Savage Weather Warrior in .375H&H. Yeah - they're out of print now, but the same rifle in .338 will do it all as well. I just prefer the .375 and when opportunity knocked, so did I.

As 9.3 noted, any '06 can be re-barreled to 9.3x62 - my second choice as the 'perfect' NA rifle, for everything. One must be a handloader to extract it's 'blessings' and a will to experiment with bullet re-sizing opens up the door to all .375" bullets being useable. 225 Spitzer for deer to 300, even 400yards, and 300gr. for the biggest, baddest the continent can offer. Of course, with a .375 - ruger or H&H, one doesn't need to re-size bullets.

If getting near .375H&H factory ballistics from an '06 case excites you, the 9.3x62 makes the grade, or, step-up folks, a .375/06IMP is the best of all - no bullet sizing and neck sizing cases only is needed. 2,860 with 235's, 2,675fps with 270's and 2,470fps with 300's, I kid you not, and it's loaded, to normal .270Winchester pressures.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Caprivi
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Re: Big Bore Bolt for N. America [Re: DarylS]
      #129268 - 11/03/09 09:36 AM

Sako will be making there 85 stainless in 370Sako.

--------------------
To live life as it is handed to me from God

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stu454
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Re: Big Bore Bolt for N. America [Re: Caprivi]
      #129269 - 11/03/09 09:42 AM

.375-06 Improved is an interesting dark horse.

I read up on it a bit and I might go for it.

Is there a particular gunsmith that specializes in this cartridge?

--------------------
Stu

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