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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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Phil_in_the_UK
.275 member


Reged: 30/04/03
Posts: 60
Loc: United Kingdom
Its a 450/400 3"
      #12904 - 02/04/04 06:24 AM

Well I had a good look over the rifle and it appears a good example and what I am looking for.

http://www.imagestation.com/mypictures/inbox/view.html?id=4180188615&url=http%3A//www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid109/pc4dcb61da7057d1f572fb13df2186076/f9289dc7.jpg&caption=P4010008&album_id=4287282383&from_album=1

The calibre wasn’t a 450/400 3 ¼”, it was a 450/400 3” and wasn’t an I Hollis it was an A Hollis. So much for knowing what you are trying to sell.

http://www.imagestation.com/mypictures/inbox/view.html?id=4180187344&url=http%3A//www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid109/pb3e2dc5a909a3be1879dd7cea380aa20/f92898d0.jpg&caption=P4010020&album_id=4287282383&from_album=1

Rusty, it does have the 4 digit number near the barrel loop on the under rib so I assume it means that the barreled action was made by Leonard.

http://www.imagestation.com/mypictures/inbox/view.html?id=4180188013&url=http%3A//www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid109/p9e7e324fb512e0ca2d3078bfcefdf7fe/f9289b6d.jpg&caption=P4010017&album_id=4287282383&from_album=1

Action was nice and tight and appeared to have little wear within the action and the rifling is nice and crisp but there is quite a bit of wear to the external areas of the action with no colour hardening left, looks good though. It gives the impression it has been carried a lot looked after but shot little. It apparently came back from India only a short time ago. The wood is ok, quite dark and is in the process of having a little “finishing” being done and has just had a new Silvers recoil pad.

It’s regulated for the tropical load, 56 gr CORDITE.

It has a large silver disk in the centre of the cheek peace, has anyone seen this before, I have not. Any ideas as to why?

I had a couple of shots with it at 50yds which with a totally unfamiliar rifle I didn’t think was too bad.

http://www.imagestation.com/mypictures/inbox/view.html?id=4180186502&url=http%3A//www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid109/p9d4fbce1ce96c0325f4e43bfd2040ce4/f9289586.jpg&caption=P4010022&album_id=4287282383&from_album=1

The seller will hold the rifle for the next few days, am I tempted or what!

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Chasseur
.375 member


Reged: 18/11/03
Posts: 771
Loc: Hunting classic Indian game!
Re: Its a 450/400 3" [Re: Phil_in_the_UK]
      #12905 - 02/04/04 06:31 AM

Phil,

Thats a nice looking gun. Be perfect for the bushveld!

--------------------
In regards to action he should devote himself to hunting...
-Machiavelli



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Phil_in_the_UK
.275 member


Reged: 30/04/03
Posts: 60
Loc: United Kingdom
Re: Its a 450/400 3" [Re: Chasseur]
      #12906 - 02/04/04 06:40 AM

Yes it looks ok and points well, shame I didnt get the ImageStation thing worked out before I posted.

I thought if I copied and pasted the short cuts the pics would show in the text, obviously not the case.

Regards

Phil

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475Guy
.400 member


Reged: 22/08/03
Posts: 1088
Loc: Kali, US
Re: Its a 450/400 3" [Re: Chasseur]
      #12908 - 02/04/04 07:04 AM

If it was what you were interested in, then by all means, pick it up. It definitely is in good shape and accurate too.

--------------------
Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.

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DUGABOY1
.400 member


Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: Its a 450/400 3" [Re: 475Guy]
      #12911 - 02/04/04 08:18 AM

I'll second 475Guy's reccomendation! Looks like a winner to me!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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docEE
.224 member


Reged: 06/11/03
Posts: 28
Loc: Minnesota, USA
Re: Its a 450/400 3" [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #12912 - 02/04/04 08:34 AM

Phil,

Thank you for the posts! It has been fun watching you "shop" for this rifle. I hope you don't have to sell your car to buy it. It looks like a fine rifle.

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470Rigby
.333 member


Reged: 23/02/04
Posts: 328
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Re: Its a 450/400 3" [Re: Phil_in_the_UK]
      #12914 - 02/04/04 09:38 AM

Phil

Was that 56 grains of Cordite? If so, that's unusual - most 450/400 x 3 inch Nitro rifles are regulated for 55 grains?

Certainly so with Jeffery's rifles, and he was the originator of the round. It was originally called .400S Jeffery.In terms of exterior ballistics, there is no difference when compared with the longer case - Jeffery's main concern was to develop a cartridge that couldn't be chambered in a gun with 31/4 inch chambers built for Black Powder - in this case the strategum was the thicker rim and the shoulder being set further forward - the thicker rim having the benefit of being stronger.

The photos of "your" A. Hollis have a Jeffery "look" about it; almost certainly made by the same manufacturer that Jeffery, Wilkes, and many others used. As observed in other posts, this was H. Leonard & Co who vey rarely signed his own guns.

As has also been observed in other posts, A. Hollis ought not be confused with I. Hollis who made some pretty ordinary shotguns. But I (Isaac) had his moments too, and one should always remember that you should never, metaphorically speaking, "judge a book by it's cover" when it comes to English guns.

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Rusty
.333 member


Reged: 08/02/03
Posts: 464
Loc: Missouri City, Texas
Re: Its a 450/400 3" [Re: Phil_in_the_UK]
      #12915 - 02/04/04 09:49 AM

You Damn right It's an A. Hollis! WTG Phil!
I think if you look at the load again it really is a 55 cord rifle!
Can you remember the 4 digit code?

I know it is exciting to have one close, but make sure you are satisfied with the condition, bores and on the face condition of the rifle.

The nice thing is that you will basicly buy a rifle that is just like a Jeffery of the period!

Keep us informed.



--------------------
Rusty
We band of brothers!
DRSS

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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39261
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Its a 450/400 3" [Re: Rusty]
      #12929 - 02/04/04 02:57 PM

I hope these photos work for everyone.









--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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NE450No2
.375 member


Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 942
Re: Its a 450/400 3" [Re: NitroX]
      #12939 - 02/04/04 04:32 PM

Phil
If the rifle fits you, shoots good, and is in sound mechanical condition I would buy it.
You can never go wrong with a 450/400. If you get the rifle let me know, I have had excellent results with 300gr bullets on deer and pigs.

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Dark_Helmet
.333 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 399
Loc: Lincoln, Nebraska, USA
Re: Its a 450/400 3" [Re: NitroX]
      #12950 - 03/04/04 03:57 AM

I've got no photos john...

--------------------
_________________________________________________________________
When someone says a rifle is "ugly," what they really mean is "push feed."

-me

(long live the Mauser 98!)

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Phil_in_the_UK
.275 member


Reged: 30/04/03
Posts: 60
Loc: United Kingdom
Re: Its a 450/400 3" [Re: 470Rigby]
      #12955 - 03/04/04 05:45 AM

470Rigby and Rusty

I blew up the photographs I took to about the size of a house and, oh dear, you are right, its 55gr CORDITE, but it really isn’t that clear.

The Leonard number is I think, 1424; I didn’t make a note of it yesterday, just took a whole load of photos for reference and assumed I had picked up everything.

I can e mail either of the best photos, if anyone wants to try and piece things together.

Any idea on that silver disc in the cheek piece?

Regards

Phil

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Phil_in_the_UK
.275 member


Reged: 30/04/03
Posts: 60
Loc: United Kingdom
Re: Its a 450/400 3" [Re: NitroX]
      #12956 - 03/04/04 06:37 AM

Thanks John, you got my pics to work.

Regards

Phil

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docEE
.224 member


Reged: 06/11/03
Posts: 28
Loc: Minnesota, USA
Re: Its a 450/400 3" [Re: Phil_in_the_UK]
      #12960 - 03/04/04 08:38 AM

Phil,
I know nothing about these guns, but the only reason I know why a rifle might have a silver disc in the stock is to be engraved or personalized... with the owner's initials, for example. To my way of thinking, if the original owner did not ever get it engraved, it makes it tougher to identify the original owner, but gives you a perfect opportunity to have your OWN initials engraved! (Once you are certain you will never part with it ;-) )

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Rusty
.333 member


Reged: 08/02/03
Posts: 464
Loc: Missouri City, Texas
Re: Its a 450/400 3" [Re: Phil_in_the_UK]
      #12962 - 03/04/04 08:48 AM

Phil,
I spoke with JJ Parodeau the Riflemaker at Champlin Firearms, Enid Oklahoma, USA
He said that he has a 256 Westley Richards that was given to Jim Corbett for killing a man eating tiger. He said the cheek piece was a common place to put such engraved presentations. Most likey the one that went with that rifle was replaced with the disc you have now. Needless to say that rifle probably once was a presentation piece to someone.

Your misson Mr. Phelps. . . er Phil, if you decide to except it, is to contact the Birmingham Musuem's Firearms curator and see if he might know what happened to the day book records of A. Hollis. The company dissappeared prior to 1919. That would be quite a find!


This is the serial number of my rifle. My friend Mark's rifle was made 54 guns after this one. It will be interesting to where the rifle you looked at falls.

So do we have a new member of




--------------------
Rusty
We band of brothers!
DRSS

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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Its a 450/400 3" [Re: Rusty]
      #12974 - 03/04/04 12:07 PM

Hey Rusty

How can I get one of those hats? Do I have to come to Texas?

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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Gibbs505
.333 member


Reged: 09/08/03
Posts: 442
Loc: BC, Canada
Re: Its a 450/400 3" [Re: Rusty]
      #12978 - 03/04/04 02:44 PM

Like it a lot!!!!

--------------------
So I can't spell, so what?

Those who beat their swords into ploughshares, will plough for those who don't!

Those who fail to learn from history will be doomed to repeat it

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470Rigby
.333 member


Reged: 23/02/04
Posts: 328
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Re: Its a 450/400 3" [Re: Phil_in_the_UK]
      #12985 - 03/04/04 07:32 PM

Phil

I agree with Rusty; almost assuredly the silver inlay is a replacement for one engraved one originally inserted for presentation purposes. But the reasons for presentation could be anything. On target rifles it usually as a prize for a major event. If the rifle had Indian origins, it could be for recognition of service by some Army Officer or Public Servant. Additionally, it was common among the Indian rulers to give guns as presents in appreciation of of being hosted on other rulers hunts; sometimes the guns were so inscribed. Or it could just be given for just being a "jolly good fellow"!

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Rusty
.333 member


Reged: 08/02/03
Posts: 464
Loc: Missouri City, Texas
Re: Its a 450/400 3" [Re: mickey]
      #12987 - 03/04/04 11:42 PM

Mickey,
Here is a link to a thread on AR. The folks there are very nice. I ordered 10 hats for the charter members of the DRSS from her.
Hat Thread

I'm sure you could get a Nitro.Express.com hat with the DRSS if the art work was available.

As far as coming to Texas, that is no problem! Texans have always enjoyed adding new blood to the mix. Tejas in Spanish means "friend". No where else will you find a grander bunch of folks bound together by one idea, TEXAS .

You can move here set up your tent, sit down look around and say, "This is a nice place. I want to be a Texan." That's it! You're a Texan. If you wanted to be a Virginian, well you're 300+ years too late!

No where else in the USA will you find the image of the State in homes as pieces of art. People display the "Lone Star" with pride! We are just proud to be here.

We are a great diversity. We live in a vast land with many climates. We are freedom loving people. All of us have one thing in common, it is the glue that holds and binds us
together. We are all TEXANS .

God Bless Sam Houston!
God Bless the Republic!
God Bless Texas!




--------------------
Rusty
We band of brothers!
DRSS

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