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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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doubleriflejack
.333 member


Reged: 11/11/07
Posts: 352
Loc: Oregon, U.S.A.
D.R. with smooth oval bore rifling---will they shoot well?
      #127717 - 22/02/09 10:29 AM

A lot of rifles have been made, for both black powder as well as smokeless, especially by Charles Lancaster, with smooth oval bore rifling. I believe it was developed in an effort to get better accuracy; less fouling, with blackpowder, though it was still used on a lot of later nitro rifles. I have heard a lot of people say that they don't shoot accurately, or comparably, as other rifling in comparable doubles, yet I have heard some say they got quite good shooting results. What are the facts, can anyone say, from practical experience, not from hearsay, will a double with smooth bore rifling shoot as accurately as will rifles with other type of rifling?

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empirevr
.375 member


Reged: 03/09/06
Posts: 614
Loc: England,but now Italy.
Re: D.R. with smooth oval bore rifling---will they shoot well? [Re: doubleriflejack]
      #127734 - 22/02/09 05:38 PM

Well you have me worried Jack, my Rigby 500 bpe is oval bore......the friend I bought it off says it shoots very well, but he has only used traditional loads in it.(as opposed to Kynoch's 3,500 ft lb offering) I have yet to fire it.....hey its England it took enough work to get my .22 rifles never mind being allowed to shoot 500 express!!!!

Ben

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: D.R. with smooth oval bore rifling---will they shoot wel [Re: empirevr]
      #127738 - 22/02/09 05:57 PM

I know of one bloke who got any he owned shooting perfectly,
or as well as he was capable.

So yes, they can be made to shoot.

Edited by 500Nitro (22/02/09 11:16 PM)

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casper50
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Reged: 18/10/07
Posts: 1364
Loc: Alaska
Re: D.R. with smooth oval bore rifling---will they shoot wel [Re: 500Nitro]
      #127745 - 22/02/09 07:39 PM

The fact that there are so many of them should speak for itself. If they wouldn't shoot straight would people have bought them? They'll shoot with a comparable load that they were designed for.

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450_366
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Reged: 17/01/07
Posts: 1068
Loc: Sweden, west-coast.
Re: D.R. with smooth oval bore rifling---will they shoot wel [Re: casper50]
      #127757 - 22/02/09 10:04 PM

I think the polygon rifling used nowdays are quite accurate, not exactly the same but close.

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5275
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: D.R. with smooth oval bore rifling---will they shoot wel [Re: 450_366]
      #127769 - 23/02/09 01:35 AM

I had a C. Lancaster double in .280 Flanged Nitro Express which had the oval bore rifling. I experimented with it a good bit over the years.

In that caliber, I found it to be quite sensitive to bullet diameter. If the bullet was the slightest bit undersize it would fail to stabilize. Using correctly sized bullets it was quite accurate. I bought some swaging dies from Corbin so I could produce bullets to suit it.

That's the extent of my experience with oval bore rifling.

You can view the rifle I used to own at this link.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26598
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: D.R. with smooth oval bore rifling---will they shoot wel [Re: CptCurl]
      #127782 - 23/02/09 02:49 AM

For someone who is an knowledgable handloader and is capable of 'making' the appropriate ammunition, an oval bore Lancaster or whatever make will shoot.

For the guy who has to buy his ammo, they'll probably be a disappointment.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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DUGABOY1
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Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: D.R. with smooth oval bore rifling---will they shoot wel [Re: CptCurl]
      #127821 - 23/02/09 11:10 AM

Cpt I have a Westley Richards 500/450 #1 Express double that is rifled with Metford rifleing. This is a sleeper rifle because the guy I bought it from thought it was worn out ballard rifleing, and never tried to load for it! The rifle is engraved with English scroll, is hammerles, ejector rifle with 28" barrels. I paid $2100 US for that rifle in it's fitted oak & leather case, along with a set of RCBS dies, and ten rounds of loaded ammo, and twenty formed, and finished brass. The rifle was sold out of the London store in 1892.

What the owner didn't know was the Metford round rifleing was for Paper patched lead bullets of 300-350 grs. It shoots fine with the proper loads. The guy the owner before me said the guy he bought it from loaded the ammo I got with the rifle. I broke it down, and found he was loading 480 gr Woodliegh jacketed bullets, over black powder. I see why it didn't shoot for him.

I have bought several double rifles over the yrs with odd rifleing simply because the owners didn't know what they were looking at, and assumed the barrels were worn out! I've never owned an oval bore, however, and I would assume they would be pretty particular with what it wants to be fed.

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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CptCurlAdministrator
.450 member


Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5275
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: D.R. with smooth oval bore rifling---will they shoot wel [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #127823 - 23/02/09 12:14 PM

Mac,

Metford rifling can really look faint. A lot of older doubles chambered in .303 British have Metford rifling, and I always have wondered how well they shoot. I suppose they shoot well.

Have you shot your Westley with the Metford bore?

Some day if you find yourself needing your $2,100 back just give me a call.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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DUGABOY1
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Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: D.R. with smooth oval bore rifling---will they shoot wel [Re: CptCurl]
      #127970 - 25/02/09 04:54 AM

Quote:

Mac,

Metford rifling can really look faint. A lot of older doubles chambered in .303 British have Metford rifling, and I always have wondered how well they shoot. I suppose they shoot well.

Have you shot your Westley with the Metford bore?

Some day if you find yourself needing your $2,100 back just give me a call.

Curl



You are right about many the .303s useing the metford rifleing! I have read, and heard some very knowldgeable people make the statement that almost all .303 double rifles have the barrels shot out, so they say they pass on them. This is because they are mistakeing the Metford rifleing as worn out Ballard rifleing. I like it because it makes it nice for me to get bargains!

I have shot my Westley, and it shoots just fine! I use 350 gr paper patched lead bullets, over a duplex load of 10% (11 grs) of SR 4759 on the primer, and 90% of a full load of 110 grs of black powder,which leaves the black powder load at 99 grs of Goex FFg black, with a tuft of Dacron fiber fill betenn the powder and the seated bullt. No air space! This chambering is a pain to make brass for. It has to be made from 475#2 NE brass, shortened, necked down reamed, and the rim diameter turned down and the rim thickness thinned. Not only is the 475#2 NE brass hard to come by, but is expensive, and it the toughest brass in existance, and very hard to form!

I have several black powder rifles, and I don't shoot them often, because I hate cleaning black powder firearms.

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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