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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mannlicher Discussion forum & Archive
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Sniper
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Reged: 03/09/10
Posts: 23
Loc: India
Re: "new" mannlicher [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #168595 - 27/09/10 08:35 PM

Beautiful
/S/

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic & No wonder the Titanic Sank.

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Mike_Bailey
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Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 2289
Loc: GB
Re: "new" mannlicher...problem, HELP [Re: Sniper]
      #169937 - 20/10/10 06:33 PM

run into a problem, see message I got below from my gunsmith Rocky,

"Mike,
Tomorrow (20 October) I should be doing the final assembly on your gun, but I've run into a problem:
Sunday (17 October) I did the bluing for the barrel & all the other parts that needed bluing. See first photo. On Monday, I did the color casing. I did it in 2 batches--the first batch was all the small parts--
grip cap, butt plate, trigger guard, etc. See 2nd photo. In this batch of color casing, I included pieces of the receiver, which I had cut off to remove the stripper clip guides; I used these as my final test to be
certain that it was safe to color case the receiver. As it turned out, these pieces crystallized into Martinsite, which turns the metal brittle. As you can see in the 3rd photo, where I stressed the parts, they
snapped in half and you can see the crystal structure. This immediately told me that color casing the receiver was not a safe option
Since we are dealing with a casting of unknown alloy, with a high silicon content, it presents difficult finishing. Due to the high silicon content, the bluing I did on the other parts is not an option for the receiver
So we are not going to be able to produce a finish on the receiver that will match the barrel. And I will not color case for safety reasons
There are 3 other options that I can offer: 1) Carbona Blue, which I do here, although I've never done a cast piece, so I do not know the outcome; or 2) Cold Rust Bluing, which will produce a semi-matte finish while the barrel is high gloss
However, at your direction, (3) I will contact Doug Turnbull, and ask if he will color case the receiver--and assume all liabilities
The gun was supposed to be finished this week--taken to the range and test fired with the ammo I have worked up, and then be ready for shipping next week. Starting 1 November, I have a legal obligation in Nevada, which means if the gun isn't finished by then, I must stop work on it for several months. The only possible option for me to finish the gun is for me to Carbona
Blue, but I can't guarantee that this process will work on a cast gun
I will put the reciever in the Carbona Blue tonight, and see if it works. If it does, I'll send photos tomorrow. If it doesn't, I'll have to stop work on it. I'll let you know, and then you can pick
another option
I am very disappointed that the receiver cannot safely be color cased; I have 3 other Mannlicher receivers lined up to be color cased"

Here are the pics below, I´ve put the gun ones on again as they seem to have been deleted or rather I have moved them to another file.
Any of you guys got any ideas, in a hurry !!
best
Mike













Edited by Mike_Bailey (21/10/10 08:26 AM)

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Mike_Bailey
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Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 2289
Loc: GB
Re: "new" mannlicher...problem, HELP URGENT ! [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #170378 - 27/10/10 06:03 PM

Guys, please see message below and pictures, I can´t make up my mind what to do. I am tending towards having barrel and receiver rust blued, how do you guys and girls think it would look. I have never handled a gun with French grey. I am a bit stuck so will go with the most popular vote here ! (I trust you all ) see the gunsmith mssg below

"Mike,
The attached photo is of the barrel (which was hot blued) and the receiver (which I ran through 3 cycles of rust bluing). The receiver took to the rust bluing very well;
it may take another 12 to 15 cycles to finish
The photo gives you a fairly good idea of the difference in the gloss between the rust blue & the polished hot blue. If you desire a better match between barrel and receiver,
then I can remove the hot blue, and rust blue the barrel
Another possible option is a different hot bluing process for the receiver, which is gloss finish equivalent to the barrel. To accomplish this different hot bluing, I would have
to send the receiver out. The decision is whether you want the high gloss finish or semi gloss finish on barrel and receiver, or mis-matched finish on the two
The second photo is an example of a Mauser I built with the receiver finished in French Grey; the French Grey can be done in a near gun-metal white all the way up to
a charcoal, and can be done in a matte or a fairly high-gloss finish. It is a very good finish for showing off engraving"

and here are the pics





Edited by CptCurl (27/10/10 10:50 PM)

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GG375
.333 member


Reged: 27/02/04
Posts: 347
Loc: Brisbane
Re: "new" mannlicher...problem, HELP URGENT ! [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #170383 - 27/10/10 08:07 PM


Mike

I would go with the rust blue - but do everything, except of course the cc items.

Cheers.

GG

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Mike_Bailey
.400 member


Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 2289
Loc: GB
Re: "new" mannlicher...problem, HELP URGENT ! [Re: GG375]
      #170388 - 27/10/10 10:23 PM

Thanks GG, that is the way I was erring, anyone else have any thoughts ?
best
Mike

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rglenz
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Reged: 14/03/08
Posts: 134
Loc: w. Minn
Re: "new" mannlicher...problem, HELP URGENT ! [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #170390 - 27/10/10 11:13 PM

I would rust blue the barrel also, it's more durable than hot blue.

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Yochanan
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Reged: 26/01/03
Posts: 912
Loc: Volksdiktatur Schweden
Re: "new" mannlicher...problem, HELP URGENT ! [Re: rglenz]
      #170402 - 28/10/10 04:21 AM

Rust blue would be my choice.

If I was going to have an expensive custom built gun I would also buy a new action with known metal composition.

Cheers
Johan

--------------------
© "I have never been able to appreciate 'shock' as applied to killing big game. It seems to me that you cannot kill an elephant weighing six tons by ´shock´unless you advocate the use of a field gun." - W.D.M. Bell: Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter.

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Mike_Bailey
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Reged: 26/02/07
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Re: "new" mannlicher...problem, HELP URGENT ! [Re: Yochanan]
      #170406 - 28/10/10 04:32 AM

The romance of resurrecting an old war horse was too much to resist Johan. If it could talk think of that, Greek military, certainly saw action in WWII,then back to the USA !!! best, Mike

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GK
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Reged: 29/10/09
Posts: 161
Loc: Adelaide
Re: "new" mannlicher...problem, HELP URGENT ! [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #170452 - 28/10/10 10:11 AM

Quote:

The romance of resurrecting an old war horse was too much to resist Johan. If it could talk think of that, Greek military, certainly saw action in WWII,then back to the USA !!! best, Mike



Mike,
That old warhose was propably used in the Greek Civil war which followed WW2 as well.

I recently got back my small ring M98 which was my first rust blued rifle and I really like it compared to hot bluing. Its hard to describe but its almost like it looks more like part of the surface of the metal rather than a coating on top of the metal. Also in your case, I think the colour of the rust blue will compliment the case coloured parts better and will tie it all together nicely.

Finally, I like the fact that you kept and highlighted the original reciever markings. Can I ask how the gold colour was applied?

George

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Mike_Bailey
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Re: "new" mannlicher...problem, HELP URGENT ! [Re: GK]
      #170472 - 28/10/10 05:59 PM

It actually is rose gold George and has been inlaid into the markings. I´m having the bands at the end of the barrel taken off, didn´t like those ! best, Mike

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Paul
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Reged: 28/08/07
Posts: 1031
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Re: "new" mannlicher...problem, HELP URGENT ! [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #170476 - 28/10/10 06:53 PM

I would go with the rust blue, too, Mike. The matt finish on cast receivers probably explains why at least some investment-cast 'Brno' 600-series rifles have matt receivers. Case hardening looks fine on double sidelocks but can easily be overdone. One appeared on NE that looked like a Christmas tree.

Cheers
- Paul

Edited by Paul (28/10/10 06:54 PM)

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GK
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Re: "new" mannlicher...problem, HELP URGENT ! [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #170489 - 28/10/10 09:49 PM

Quote:

It actually is rose gold George and has been inlaid into the markings. I´m having the bands at the end of the barrel taken off, didn´t like those ! best, Mike



What keeps the rose gold in place?
Good call on the bands Mike. I was not a fan of them.
George

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kamilaroi
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Reged: 18/12/04
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Re: "new" mannlicher...problem, HELP URGENT ! [Re: GK]
      #170491 - 28/10/10 10:09 PM

^It's how the graver's (chisel) assymetric face has been made and used to retain the gold.

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FrankS
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Reged: 06/10/08
Posts: 114
Loc: New Iberia Louisiana
Re: "new" mannlicher...problem, HELP URGENT ! [Re: kamilaroi]
      #180420 - 01/05/11 04:18 PM

Mike, looks like there have not been any updates regarding your rifle. Anything new to share with us??. Frank

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Mike_Bailey
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Re: "new" mannlicher...problem, HELP URGENT ! [Re: FrankS]
      #180431 - 01/05/11 05:44 PM

waiting on the engraving and finish, maybe a month, best, Mike

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Mike_Bailey
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Re: "new" mannlicher loads [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #182647 - 27/05/11 08:18 PM

Nearly done, rifle is finished. A few of you may remember I posted a question regarding load date here as I was getting some "odd" results. Thanks to Daryl (and partly on his own intuition) the gunsmith went with an IMR powder and has got the results below. I have attached a photo of the target and his email to me. I hope this may be of help to any of you out there thinking about loading for it, all caveats apply, this is what he found works but may not work in your rifle, best, Mike



and his email below, my error on the Barnes bullet weight, it is 130 grains. The Woodleighs did well !

"Mike,
I got to the range on Monday. Load development is done. I ended up with two excellent loads:
one for the 140 grain Barnes and the other for the Woodleigh 160 gr. The gun appears to
love the IMR 4895 powder. I'm still getting muzzle velocities above all the loading data that
I have managed to collect. The good thing about these loads is there should not be any
scope adjustment necessary to switch between loads. The 140 gr shoots high and right about
one inch, and the 160 gr shoots low and left about an inch
Attached is a photo of my last target of the day
Your gun is finished. I'm going to take it apart and do a cleaning and final inspection
Rocky"

Edited by CptCurl (23/06/11 10:35 PM)

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GK
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Reged: 29/10/09
Posts: 161
Loc: Adelaide
Re: "new" mannlicher loads [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #182650 - 27/05/11 08:40 PM

Hi Mike,
Your groups look good, I would be happy with that result. I'm looking forward to finally seeing the finished rifle.
What type of barnes did you end up using. The one time I tried something other than 160gr RN projectiles I had feeding difficulties. I think it was the 140 gr Sierra SP and the didn't come close to feeding due to the pointy nose shape.

George

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Mike_Bailey
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Re: "new" mannlicher loads [Re: GK]
      #182652 - 27/05/11 09:12 PM

130 grain Barnes triple shock (TSX I think they are called) and Hornady 160 grain soft noses, no feeding problems as far as I am aware, the smith may well have polished up various bits and it is a new barrel, best

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Ben
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Reged: 22/08/08
Posts: 1917
Loc: Northern Territory, Australia
Re: "new" mannlicher loads [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #182654 - 27/05/11 10:19 PM

Nice project!

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26488
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Re: "new" mannlicher loads [Re: Ben]
      #182666 - 28/05/11 01:25 AM

Mike - did you rust blue the barreled action?

In view of the speeds and accuracy with the loads shown, I'd stick with the Woodleigh or even Hornady 160's for everything.

If you are going to drive the 130's or 140's to about 2,500fps, then perhaps they might add some range for you and be useful. Othewise, such low speeds with a premium bullet is wasted money, in my opinion.

I'd be happy with a 2,200fps to 2,300fps 160gr. load, but not with a 2,200fps 140.

My Daughter is shooting 160gr. Sierra RN's in her .260Rem., with a mere 33.0gr. H4895 - virtually no recoil. that is a 55gr. capacity case, so the speeds are down in the range your Mann. is providing.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Mike_Bailey
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Reged: 26/02/07
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Re: "new" mannlicher loads [Re: DarylS]
      #182671 - 28/05/11 04:25 AM

Hi Daryl, rust blued and I´ll be using the Woodleighs for everything ! best
Mike

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DarylS
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Re: "new" mannlicher loads [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #182676 - 28/05/11 09:44 AM

Cool!- but I was hoping for a "finished" picture.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Mike_Bailey
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Re: "new" mannlicher loads [Re: DarylS]
      #182702 - 28/05/11 05:14 PM

When I have them you´ll see them Daryl best

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Mike_Bailey
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Re: "new" mannlicher finished [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #182750 - 29/05/11 05:53 PM

All done, last three pics, rifle should be here in 4 weeks or so. From this...




to this







rgds
Mike

Edited by CptCurl (23/06/11 10:35 PM)

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FATBOY404
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Re: "new" mannlicher finished [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #182753 - 29/05/11 07:02 PM

Mike.

You have got to be happy with that !!.

A couple of "game gotten" photo's now.

--------------------
"WHATEVER BLOWS YOUR HAIR BACK"

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