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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mannlicher Discussion forum & Archive
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Mike_Bailey
.400 member


Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 2289
Loc: GB
"new" mannlicher
      #126684 - 11/02/09 08:08 PM









Hi all, here is the slightly battered Mannlicher I have bought from a forum member
here. I beleive it is a Greek military model in 6.5 X 54 MS as I said earlier.
Anyway work begins in July and I will keep you all posted on progress, best
Mike

Edited by CptCurl (15/03/10 10:26 PM)

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darwinmauser
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Reged: 07/05/07
Posts: 217
Loc: Darwin NT
Re: "new" mannlicher [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #126686 - 11/02/09 09:07 PM



Battered???????????????????????????????? it looks positively pristine compared to what I've seen over the last few years.

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GG375
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Reged: 27/02/04
Posts: 347
Loc: Brisbane
Re: "new" mannlicher [Re: darwinmauser]
      #126688 - 11/02/09 10:35 PM

What are these like compared to an original MS in the action cycling department? Same degree of smoothness with feeding etc?

Cheers.

GG

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Clark
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Reged: 25/11/08
Posts: 84
Loc: Sweden
Re: "new" mannlicher [Re: GG375]
      #126692 - 11/02/09 11:06 PM

I'm not sure, but looking at the pics everything looks exactly like the 1903 MS and should have the same smoothness. Interesting

The reason the MS action is so smooth is because the design of the magazine which doesn't interfer with the bolt, and also the split bridge with the bolt handle so far forward.

Nice rifle BTW, doesn't look very battered to me considering its age.

/C

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Mike_Bailey
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Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 2289
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Re: "new" mannlicher [Re: Clark]
      #126695 - 11/02/09 11:15 PM

GG375, it is an original MS action. Many British rifle makers bought actions from Steyr in the 1900's and then stocked them and stamped their name on them. Examples I have seen are Jefferies, William Evans, Purdey and Gibbs. The greek military ordered a load of them from Steyr, who, as far as I know, continued to manufacture the action until about 1970 when it became cost inefficient.
They were always very expensive actions to produce. I will be having a new "butterfly" swept back
bolt handle made, not too much of a sweep though, I like the "medium" ones best, Mike

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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3482
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: "new" mannlicher [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #126702 - 12/02/09 01:05 AM

Mike: If that were mine I'd keep it as a collector and go looking for a sporter slightly down in condition, and put my efforts there.

You want to see 'battered', I should post a pic of my Greek MS!

Also, sounds like you've made up your mind, but I would advise against a swept-back spoon-handle on the bolt if you have the choice. The 'spoon-handle' is operated by placing the thumb on the 'top' of the handle, where it joins the bolt body, and lifting with the fore-finger. If its swept back, you can't do this. Stoegers will rot in hell for eternity for the embuggerance they coerced Steyr into enflicting on new Mannlicher-customers in the early fifties.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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Mike_Bailey
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Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 2289
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Re: "new" mannlicher [Re: Marrakai]
      #126704 - 12/02/09 01:29 AM

Thanks for that Marrakai, I didn't know, straight down it shall be. It can't be kept as a collector
amigo since the barrel is buggered and I don't collect, just shoot 'em but I think it will look good
when finished...at least I hope so ?, am thinking new 22" barrel, would like to keep weight with scope below 7 1/4lbs, any other hints much appreciated, best, Mike

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GG375
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Reged: 27/02/04
Posts: 347
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Re: "new" mannlicher [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #126735 - 12/02/09 07:39 AM


Mike, can you give us a description of the work you are having done - style, rifle or carbine, scope mounts, open sights etc etc?

Thanks mate.

I'm intrigued and hooked on these MS rifles - don't seem to be able to get enough of them.

Cheers.

GG

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Mike_Bailey
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Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 2289
Loc: GB
Re: "new" mannlicher [Re: GG375]
      #126793 - 12/02/09 08:12 PM

Hi GG375, below are the starting specs for the gunsmith in the US but I guess they
will change a bit as work progresses :

Stock : walnut oil finished classic with pancake or shadow cheek piece,
straight comb, LOP 14 3/8” mid to be cut from the French blank already supplied by me, slight palm swell for right hander. full chequering around grip and fore end
at 24 lpi, NO FLEUR DE LYS
pattern to be agreed. Fore end relatively slim, round shape, ebony
tip, NO SPACERS. Skeleton pistol grip cap and skeleton butt plate curling
over bottom and top, chequered. Bedding ??


Action : mannlicher schoenauer with straight butterfly bolt handle. All parts highly polished ready for final finish, bolt jewelled ??, bolt handle chequered ?? Magazine disassembled and internals polished, springs checked. Engraving to be decided.
Trigger: custom to release at 2.5lbs, no creep, little or no overtravel.


Barrel : 22” match grade barrel, 8” twist ?? standard or light weight contour ?
finish ??


Sights : iron sights ?? folding aperture on rear ? front small bead, no hood, irons to be 1” high at 100 yds. Scope mounts , don’t like offset scope so use redfields as per original which puts scope directly over action. Scope Leupold VX3 in 2.5X-6 X 32mm


Weight : Try to get 7.25lbs or a bit less with scope

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darwinmauser
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Reged: 07/05/07
Posts: 217
Loc: Darwin NT
Re: "new" mannlicher [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #126906 - 13/02/09 10:07 PM

G'day Mike, the first paragraph sounds like something I'd like , and the second paragraph ....well..the straight butterknife bolt handle sounds good but, jewelling the bolt and chequering the handle wouldn't float my boat. It's a personal preference thing of course and ,I hope to see it as the project progresses...the jewelling and chequering my even grow on me .Hope it all goes well for you .

cheers
Pete

ps are you going with a full length stock or the half stock???

Edited by darwinmauser (13/02/09 10:09 PM)

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Mike_Bailey
.400 member


Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 2289
Loc: GB
Re: "new" mannlicher [Re: darwinmauser]
      #126909 - 13/02/09 11:11 PM

Darwin, thats why I put ?? next to the jewelling. I,m not sure either, the problem with jewelling
is over time it gets marks on it, maybe won't bother. The stock will be a classic "American" half
stock, a good photo idea is the black and white photo in Jack O'Connors "The Rifle Book", a .250/3000 short Mauser restocked by Bob Owen,or almost anything stocked by Al Biesen, best, Mike

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darwinmauser
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Reged: 07/05/07
Posts: 217
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Re: "new" mannlicher [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #126917 - 14/02/09 12:19 AM


Mike , just sitting here thinking and...well it seems to me that jewelling and chequering the bolt is a lot easier to do than to undo, it might be better to just polish the bolt as they did at the factory ,jewelling ect can happen any time without a big drama.

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dale
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Reged: 28/02/06
Posts: 341
Loc: logan W.V.
Re: "new" mannlicher [Re: darwinmauser]
      #126994 - 14/02/09 05:02 PM

Posted for Xausa


Edited by CptCurl (15/03/10 10:17 PM)

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xausa
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Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: "new" mannlicher [Re: dale]
      #126999 - 14/02/09 05:43 PM

I picked this up from Griffin & Howe last spring. It is a Greek military conversion, and has a commercial barrel chambered for the original 6.5X54 cartridge. The work was not done by G&H, it was just on consignment with them. The conversion was fairly well done, although I would have much preferred the bolt handle not to have been swept back so radically, if at all.

It had several issues, first of which was the scope, which was a Weaver "K" series, with a 3/4" tube, designed for .22 rifles. This was easily corrected by fitting a Unertl Hawk 4X scope with Redfield rings. Then there was the problem of the difficulty in closing the bolt, even on factory rounds.

Eventually I rented a set of 6.5X54 headspace gauges and a chambering reamer. As I suspected, the rifle had insufficient headspace, which I was than able to correct with the reamer. Probably the barrel was purchased pre-chambered and threaded and whoever fitted it didn't have access to a reamer to finish the job. One advantage of the new barrel is that it has a normal .264" groove diameter, unlike the usual M-S .268" dimension, which means I can use the whole range of .264" bullets with it.

Finally, I had a ramp and front sight mounted on the barrel, purely on aesthetic grounds. I will be picking it up from the gunsmith next week, and I have great expectations for improvement in accuracy. I'm not crazy about the Fajan stock, but I may be able to correct that somewhat, by removing the Monte Carlo and white spacers and refinishing and recheckering. I can't abide skip line checkering.

At any rate, Mike, here is one example of what can be done with a Greek military action, although the finished product leaves quite a bit to be desired at the moment. I would have to term it a work in progress.

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Mike_Bailey
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Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 2289
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Re: "new" mannlicher [Re: xausa]
      #127003 - 14/02/09 06:19 PM

Thanks Xausa, I'm with you on Monte Carlos, spacers and skip line chequering, where do they
get these ideas ?? As to synthetic stocks....aaarrgghh (he said waiting for the avalanche of abuse
) best, Mike

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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3482
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: "new" mannlicher [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #127020 - 14/02/09 08:01 PM

Just for laughs, decided to photograph my Greek mil MS. It is surprisingly clean internally, as you can see by the photos of the Schönauer magazine on the adjacent thread. The bore is quite dark, though, probably a write-off. As is the stock, as you can clearly see. There is a 4-inch split on the other side!



Anyway, the other optimists posting on this thread will see nothing but potential, but its probably a 'retirement' project!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

Edited by CptCurl (15/03/10 10:17 PM)

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darwinmauser
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Reged: 07/05/07
Posts: 217
Loc: Darwin NT
Re: "new" mannlicher [Re: Marrakai]
      #155868 - 09/03/10 06:08 PM



Well ,it's been a whole year since this thread was started Mike , do we have any progress ?

cheers
Pete

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Mike_Bailey
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Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 2289
Loc: GB
Re: "new" mannlicher [Re: darwinmauser]
      #155886 - 09/03/10 07:15 PM

I last spoke to Rocky in January when he was off to the shows; the action, barrel and trigger are all done, he was busy inletting the stock the last time we spoke but I guess all the rough work has been nearly done, I will check my old emails as I have some pics from him but I don't think they are in JPEG form so it might not be possible to post them here. I will try later and update you, best, Mike

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Mike_Bailey
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Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 2289
Loc: GB
Re: "new" mannlicher [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #155889 - 09/03/10 07:25 PM

Rocky sent me this quote last October when I enquired


"Mike,
The delays started with the plating on the bolt: my hardness test equipment only goes to a Rockwell C65, and the plating on the bolt is above
that level. I automatically assumed it had to be industrial chrome. And I also knew I could not weld over chrome
because it would contaminate and pit the weld; so I would have to have the chrome stripped. I took it to a local industrial chrome shop, that agreed to strip
it, and re-plate it when finished. I left it with them to strip, went back to pick it up the next day, and the guy said it was not chrome--that their stripper
wouldn't touch it. At this point, I had to research to discover the true identity of the plating. After about 5 days, I learned that it is heat-treatable
phosphorus nickel. I found a local plater that does the heat-treatable phosphorus nickel, but they are geared up only for doing new production; they
had no way to strip it. Back to researching, this time to find a stripper, and find a company that would send me a small quantity of stripper, and not
a 55 gallon drum. I did find one, but the quart-size was out of stock, and I can't get any until 14 Sept
Since I couldn't work on the bolt, I went to work on the trigger. I ordered an Austrian-make Kepplinger, single-set trigger; but when it arrived, I noticed that the sear engagement had been buffed to roundness, making it unusable and unsafe. I had to re-order, have one hand selected that had not been buffed, and then send the buffed one back. That added another week, waiting for parts in the mail
I tend to give guns personalities. I've worked on guns where every part comes in perfect and fits first time. And then there are guns that fight me all the way; they refuse to let
any new part fit correctly, and are just a general pain--that's cantankerous
But the worst seems to be over, and things are starting to work well
Rocky"

"

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darwinmauser
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Reged: 07/05/07
Posts: 217
Loc: Darwin NT
Re: "new" mannlicher [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #155906 - 09/03/10 09:34 PM


Ahhh...The joys of building a rifle.I'm just about to send mine off for a new barrel.

Edited by darwinmauser (09/03/10 09:36 PM)

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GG375
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Reged: 27/02/04
Posts: 347
Loc: Brisbane
Re: "new" mannlicher [Re: darwinmauser]
      #155920 - 09/03/10 10:34 PM


Hi darwinmauser

What are you sending off mate.......a Mannlicher?

If so who is doing it - we need details!!

Cheers.

GG

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darwinmauser
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Reged: 07/05/07
Posts: 217
Loc: Darwin NT
Re: "new" mannlicher [Re: GG375]
      #155928 - 10/03/10 12:22 AM


Hehe, OK, the rifle I have a a Greek system 30 carbine ,the barrel is toast so I'm sending it off to MAB/TSE for a new one,it will be in the original profile of course,600 mil long. After that it will be off to Gordon Cusens for a new stock, bolt handle and so on. MAB claim a 12 week wait so I should see it in about June and Gordon will depend on how much he has on but I would say this time next year will see it finished.

Cheers
Pete

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GG375
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Re: "new" mannlicher [Re: darwinmauser]
      #156002 - 10/03/10 08:13 PM


Pete

Cheers mate - please keep us informed with progress and photos.

All the best.

GG

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GK
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Reged: 29/10/09
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Loc: Adelaide
Re: "new" mannlicher [Re: GG375]
      #156009 - 10/03/10 11:03 PM

Pete,
As you know, I collect Greek rifles of the 1940's.

If its not too late, could you take a few decent pics of the carbine before you strip it. The 1930 System carbines aren't that common and I don't have a decent data base of these.

Also, if you have no further use for any of the bits, I would be interested in buying these.

Its good to have spares and ultimately, I want to build a "new" Greek cabine up. By this I mean that I want to rebuild one with a new barrel and stock but use the original fittings in the original design. I've got a few with stuffed barrels but I can't make myself pull them apart, but I reckon I'll stumble across an action one day. Then I'll build one up to original specifications.

George

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darwinmauser
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Reged: 07/05/07
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Loc: Darwin NT
Re: "new" mannlicher [Re: GK]
      #156023 - 11/03/10 12:21 AM



I might still have some photo's of it George but unfortunately for you the stock and fitting's are now in the USA.

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