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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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zr2paul
.224 member


Reged: 12/02/04
Posts: 45
Loc: Ontario, Canada
.470NE shooting both shots at once! OUCH!!!!
      #11206 - 09/03/04 02:55 AM

Well on Sunday my Dad and I went to the range to try out our new Heym .470NE along with a few other guns. My Dad started with the .470NE...he put 2 shots in and when he went to pull the front trigger the gun shot both shots at once!!! I thought my Dad was going to lose the gun the way that gun kicked and pushed him back!!! At first we did not know it shot both shots until he opened the action and both brass came out. We were somewhat relieved that the kick wasnt going to be that bad...LOL...but a little concerned as to why both shots went out together. Is it possible the trigger is loose? What sort of things should we look at?

Any help would be much apprecaited!

Paul

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atkinson6
.375 member


Reged: 26/01/04
Posts: 678
Loc: Idaho
Re: .470NE shooting both shots at once! OUCH!!!! [Re: zr2paul]
      #11208 - 09/03/04 03:36 AM

In all likelyhood his finger came back during recoil and hit the rear trigger, as that happens sometimes to first time users of doubles, hold the gun tighter and grip it just a bit harder....

If not that then send that puppy back to the manufacturer post haste...

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zr2paul
.224 member


Reged: 12/02/04
Posts: 45
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: .470NE shooting both shots at once! OUCH!!!! [Re: atkinson6]
      #11211 - 09/03/04 04:01 AM

Someone mentioned that because my Dad was wearing shooting gloves he may have slipped his finger onto the rear trigger after shooting. The reason I think this may not be the case is because I was watching my Dad closely when he was shooting and it really looked like both shots were shot at the same time. It was not BOOM BOOM....it was just BOOM, if you know what I mean. A guy that was there said its possible the trigger is loose and due to the high recoil the trigger went off. Is this possible?

Paul

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DUGABOY1
.400 member


Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: .470NE shooting both shots at once! OUCH!!!! [Re: zr2paul]
      #11219 - 09/03/04 05:40 AM

zr2paul, If I remember correctly Your rifle is an O/U! If it is an O/U, and you are loading for this rifle, take an empty case and only prime it. Put the primed case in the top barrel, and load the bottom barrel with a live cartridge. The bottom barrel is the proper barrel fired first in an O/U rifle! This way if the rifle doubles,when you fire the bottom barrel,and it doubles, it will only fire a primer in the top barrel. Be very carefull to fire only the bottom barrel, without touching the back trigger. Fire two or three rounds in the bottom barrel, and if it pops the primer on the empty case, then you have a machanical problem. The trigger being loose is not the problem, that is a statement of someone who doesn't understand doubles. What is happening is either the sear engagement is bad, or the sear spring is too weak, or both. There is nothing YOU should do inside this rifle. That should be left up to a gunsmith who understands double rifles, not just any gun plumber!

"WARNING" DO NOT TAKE TIS RIFLE APART! Leave this to the experts!

If the rifle is really doubleing, that is probably why it was for sale in the first place!, and it needs fixing by a competant double rifle man! My opinion is, though, your father accidently clipped the back trigger on fireing. These things can sound like one shot going off, when they really are two seperate shots! The empty case with a live primer will tell you if it is truely doubleing!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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zr2paul
.224 member


Reged: 12/02/04
Posts: 45
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: .470NE shooting both shots at once! OUCH!!!! [Re: zr2paul]
      #11221 - 09/03/04 06:06 AM

DUGABOY1 Thanks for the reply. Wednesday morning My Dad and I are going to the shooting range again and with us is a gunsmith. He wants to test out the .470NE and make sure the problem is not us touching both triggers. He is a very reputable gunsmith so I think we can trust him. I hope all goes well...this gun is such a beautfiul gun.

Paul

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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: .470NE shooting both shots at once! OUCH!!!! [Re: zr2paul]
      #11224 - 09/03/04 07:48 AM

zr2paul

Listen to what Mac said. Unless your gunsmith is an expert and experienced in Sidelock O/U, and has done work on the make you have, then you are risking much by letting him screw with it.

There are many fine gunsmiths that sell rifles for thousands of dollars that will not touch a quality sidelock. It is because it is it's own world and can be extremely complicated.

It can happen that shooters occasionally bump the rear trigger. That is the first place to check. If it is an ejector that will also spring when the second barrel fires.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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urdubob
.224 member


Reged: 18/02/04
Posts: 21
Loc: Tennessee
Re: .470NE shooting both shots at once! OUCH!!!! [Re: mickey]
      #11226 - 09/03/04 08:02 AM

I did that once with my 450-400.... a very painful event!

Urdubob

--------------------
God Bless Rhodesia and God Bless Ian Smith.

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475Guy
.400 member


Reged: 22/08/03
Posts: 1088
Loc: Kali, US
Re: .470NE shooting both shots at once! OUCH!!!! [Re: zr2paul]
      #11234 - 09/03/04 09:54 AM

I was told by my partner's dad long ago when touching off one of his cannons that I had to touch off the rear trigger first to keep from experiencing that much fun.

--------------------
Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.

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zimhunter
.333 member


Reged: 05/02/04
Posts: 388
Loc: Southern Arizona
Re: .470NE shooting both shots at once! OUCH!!!! [Re: zr2paul]
      #11299 - 10/03/04 11:45 AM

I always pull rear trigger first on my 470 if I don't I will almost always fire both barrels. I've just gotten into the habit of firing rear trigger first on all my doubles. All my shotguns are single trigger so doesn't present a problem.

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mbogo375
.275 member


Reged: 09/02/04
Posts: 68
Loc: southeastern Georgia
Re: .470NE shooting both shots at once! OUCH!!!! [Re: zr2paul]
      #11340 - 10/03/04 05:29 PM

I am ashamed to admit that I once made the mistake of setting both set triggers on a very lightweight (UNDER 8 1/4 POUNDS ) Belgian made double in 450x3 1/4" Nitro Express. This little rifle may have been originally intended for 450x3 1/4 Nitro-for-Black loads, but was marked as a full nitro proof rifle. It was extremely accurate, and the owner had been using full nitro loads with .458 diameter bullets (although I later slugged the bores and groove diameter was less than .454"). The bores were almost pristine, as you might expect, since I doubt many shooters would make a habit of firing many full loads in this lightweight.

I was shooting from the bench, as I wanted to see just how well this rifle would group. At the pull of the front trigger the recoil of this ultra-light double, I assume, caused my finger to touch the rear trigger (although it could have been just the effect of the heavy recoil on the rear set trigger). Both shots were nearly simultaneous because both hit the target. In any case I can tell you that the only reason that I did not lose control with my rear hand as I did with my front hand was that the upward arc of the rifle was stopped by my forehead being in the way of the rear sight, rib, and barrels!!!!!! I never tried to calculate the recoil of two barrels discharging nearly simultaneously with 500 grain bullets at around 2100 fps in an 8 1/4 pound rifle, but I can assure you that it is "substantial". Moral of the story-never set the trigger on a double for the barrel that you are not shooting (if it has two set triggers).

Take the advice that was offered about using a primed empty in the second barrel to check for doubling. It is much easier on rifle and shooter than a live round in both chambers.

Jim

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475Guy
.400 member


Reged: 22/08/03
Posts: 1088
Loc: Kali, US
Re: .470NE shooting both shots at once! OUCH!!!! [Re: mbogo375]
      #11345 - 10/03/04 09:51 PM

Dude, wasn't that exciting?

--------------------
Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.

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zr2paul
.224 member


Reged: 12/02/04
Posts: 45
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: .470NE shooting both shots at once! OUCH!!!! [Re: 475Guy]
      #11377 - 11/03/04 09:06 AM

Went back to the range today with the gunsmith who is also does Heym Warranty Work. We loaded the .470NE (1 loaded, 1 blank) and YES both barrel did shoot when using the front trigger first. If using the rear, only 1 barrel shoots. So he is going to look at it and see what he can do. He is VERY good at his work and has worked on many nice and complicated guns.

As for hitting the target, the Heym .470NE is shooting slightly to the right about 1.5" but it is centered. Once we get the gun back (Gunsmith took it) we will test it out again and see how it does. We are also having the gunsmith install the claw mounts with a Swarovski Scope.

Thank you everyone for their help! I'll keep you all updated when my Dad gets his gun back.

Paul

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holland465
.275 member


Reged: 24/02/03
Posts: 71
Loc: California
Re: .470NE shooting both shots at once! OUCH!!!! [Re: zr2paul]
      #11407 - 11/03/04 06:05 PM

My Holland fired both barrels last week at the range. What a pleasant surprise! I had been firing right barrel then the left barrel and everything was fine. Just for the hell of it I decided to fire the left barrel first. I pulled the trigger and was surprised by a really fierce recoil! I broke the rifle and both cases ejected. That was it for the day. I packed up the rifle and sent it to an English gunsmith who does great work on double rifles.

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475Guy
.400 member


Reged: 22/08/03
Posts: 1088
Loc: Kali, US
Re: .470NE shooting both shots at once! OUCH!!!! [Re: holland465]
      #11480 - 14/03/04 12:31 AM

H465, would you mind posting who the smith is? I'm trying to get a list of good smiths together for future reference. I may be able to get back into a DB again in a bit and I'd like to have everything lined up like ducks in a row.

--------------------
Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.

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atkinson6
.375 member


Reged: 26/01/04
Posts: 678
Loc: Idaho
Re: .470NE shooting both shots at once! OUCH!!!! [Re: 475Guy]
      #12225 - 23/03/04 08:56 AM

I have had a 500 and a 470 double on me so fast it sounded like one shot..It is an experience thats hard to forget..In one case I was thrown from the bench and hit on the back of my head and the rear sight landed on top of my head and cut a nice gash there..I woke up in a puddle of blood, that one hurt badly...The other one raised the gun straight up and I lost it in my right hand but kept it in my left but I had to turn completely around and chase the damn thing a couple of steps to keep from dropping it! Then expect to spend the next few weeks trying to get that normal flinch under control

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475Guy
.400 member


Reged: 22/08/03
Posts: 1088
Loc: Kali, US
Re: .470NE shooting both shots at once! OUCH!!!! [Re: atkinson6]
      #12248 - 23/03/04 12:57 PM

Ray, the only thing that saved you from permanent damage is that you most probably have an extremely hard head. The closest thing to permanent damage for me was to fire a 505 Gibbs that was only 10.5#. I had concussion and saw the entire milky way for a few days.

--------------------
Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.

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**DONOTDELETE**





Re: .470NE shooting both shots at once! OUCH!!!! [Re: zr2paul]
      #12251 - 23/03/04 01:09 PM

It sounds like a push feed might have been better than a "one shot" double

Mike

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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: .470NE shooting both shots at once! OUCH!!!! [Re: Mike375]
      #12255 - 23/03/04 02:49 PM

That reminds me of a story I read somewhere about an Englishman in India. He had an 8 Bore Double on him when shooting a Rhinoceros. The Rhino was knocked down by the two 1100 grain bullets. The Englishman was knocked over backwards into a thorn bush. The rifle flew out of his hands and landed some 20 feet behind him.

As he was trying to extracate himself from the thorns the Rhino staggered to his feet and was looking at him. At this moment his gunbearer ran up with the rifle, reloaded, and tried to push it into his hands.

The options. Let the Rhino run over him or shoot the rifle again. He chose to not shoot and the Rhino stood took a few steps toward him and fell over dead.

Akkam's Razor


--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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475Guy
.400 member


Reged: 22/08/03
Posts: 1088
Loc: Kali, US
Re: .470NE shooting both shots at once! OUCH!!!! [Re: mickey]
      #12256 - 23/03/04 03:08 PM

He was probably praying like all hell that the Rhino wasn't going to charge and that he definitely didn't want to light that cannon off anymore.

--------------------
Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.

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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3482
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: .470NE shooting both shots at once! OUCH!!!! [Re: 475Guy]
      #12284 - 23/03/04 10:46 PM

Stuff the rhino, I'd have shot the gun-bearer for loading 2 cartridges into a doubling 8-bore!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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atkinson6
.375 member


Reged: 26/01/04
Posts: 678
Loc: Idaho
Re: .470NE shooting both shots at once! OUCH!!!! [Re: Marrakai]
      #12649 - 28/03/04 05:08 AM

The doubling of a big bore rifle is something everyone should experience at least once in their lifetime..its an unexplainable exhilarating experience, that I hope and pray each night it will never happen to me a third time..

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