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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5520
Loc: United States
Re: CZ Safari Classic 550 Quality Issues [Re: farshot]
      #126938 - 14/02/09 03:33 AM

farshot;

No just that one.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: CZ Safari Classic 550 Quality Issues [Re: farshot]
      #126944 - 14/02/09 05:55 AM

Quote:

Just to respond to RIPP - that is my point exactly -- I have dozens of CZ /BRNOs that I never touched - not even the trigger - and they shoot perfectly and wonderfully with no extra effort to them (at -used to be -- a fraction of the cost of "mainstream " rifles. So why is CZ maligned for people who want to do things to them? If a $35,000 English rifle is "better" then a $8000 German one -- then ok. And BTW - look in the custom shops in countries other then the USA and Remington just isnt as common in those shops for custom rifles. You find Mausers, BRNOs, Steyrs, and so on.

We all agree that bad things can occur once in a while to good rifles out of the box - any brand or anyhow- I get way off topic

Please Bigboar keep me advised as to the outcome (even if by PM). I am betting on the ammo being the issue!!



Farshot
I am not really maligning CZ for that...have seen several customs on their actions that work quite well...heck, I own several CZ's as well...so feel I am also qualified on my experience in saying the cz's I do have are very crude in their finished product..on my little 204 you would have to actually hit the action a bit hard each time to get it to chamber the round...in my 17hmr..the extractor broke the 3rd time out..so have not had really good experiences---but they ARE VERY ACCURATE...as I stated before, after getting the action cleaned up on my .204--it shoots every bit as well as the Cooper I have which cost 2's the money...

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26873
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: CZ Safari Classic 550 Quality Issues [Re: 9.3x57]
      #126945 - 14/02/09 06:08 AM

Quote:

farshot;

Here is the dovetail I am referring to. It is not the dovetail you are referring to. The lug wobbled and wiggled and was easily removed {almost fell out} with the fingers. The CZ gunsmith thought it was a joke, too. I removed it when I bedded the action.



All CZ550's do not have this lug. Why a 9.3x62 has one I do not know. I don't even know if all 9.3x62 550's have them.

BTW: the trigger on my 550 was great. Easily adjusted and excellent overall. So was the trigger on my 527. I actually expected trouble with the trigger due to its sort-of complexity, but they turned out to defy my intuition. I like them and wish such a trigger system was commonly found on other maker's guns.

All new guns have warts. This thread is about CZ's, not Remingtons, thus my comments have pretty much stuck to CZ's.

I do not hate CZ's. I consider them a challenge awaiting the bold...



Dovetails are easily tightened.

I have had BRNO's in Hornet, 7x57, .358 NM and .375H&H - all wonderful - no bedding needed, fed perfectly with ALL bullet weights. More recently I've had 2 CZ's in Hornet, both the Lux model with lightweight barrel and Euro stock. Loved them both - 6,500 rounds of 40gr. @ 3,340fps and 50gr. at 3,085fps - wonderful - after 6,500 rounds still shooting 3/8" groups - re-barreled to .17AH - still love the CZ and the single, set trigger. New CZ Lux Hornet, not as accurate as the first, handles same loads in stride - and manages group agg's in 1/2" to 5/8" range. Feeding? - I single load only as they're gopher guns and excell at that. 454yards longest gopher kill so far. Love 'em.

The 550's look just great - so what if you have to do some bedding or action rail work - been doing that on various makes of rifles for years - so far hasn't been needed on the older BRNO's. I like the forward lug on heavy recoiling rifles. Others feel differently about them. Perhaps CZ put them on the 9.3x62's in anticipation of people actually loading that round to it's full potential instead of using 9.3x57-type loads in them. 270gr. at over 2,600fps - 286gr. at over 2,500fps - 300gr. at over 2,400fps - the 9.3x62 does it all. BTW - those ballistics are slightly better than the loads that made the .375H&H famous.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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bigboar
.224 member


Reged: 05/02/09
Posts: 33
Loc: NewEngland
Re: CZ Safari Classic 550 Quality Issues [Re: DarylS]
      #126967 - 14/02/09 08:52 AM

I spoke to a man in the CZ custom shop who is looking at my 505 today. He told me the problem, or at least my primary problem is the ammo. He suggest I purchase ammo from Superior or Safari International. He has called A Square and complained several times. A Square states the ammo is in spec. He says the A Square rounds are over size and in particular the shoulder is too far forward and the diameter at the base is over size. I mentioned a second unknown load custom formed from Bell 577 also fail to chamber. I asked if Norma would chamber. He does not have any Norma and all his test shooting is with in house reloads. He will hold the gun while I try and locate a box of Norma ammo and send him a round.

Meanwhile I measured an A square 505 with a dial caliper. It hard to determine length to shoulder. This is what I got:

Bullet .505 [spec 505]
Neck .532 [spec 538]
Diameter at neck .598 [spec 600]
Largest diameter near the base, just above the rim .637 [spec 640]
Base to end of shoulder approximately 2.52 [spec 2.498] OVER SPEC, maybe hard to measure this.
Base to start of neck approximately 2.45 [spec 2.458]

Maybe the shoulder is tight. The marks on the ammo I kept home show the chamber is tight at the .598 diameter(near shoulder)and near the base. After that it might have hit the shoulder. CZ now has the one round I forced all the way in.

Is anyone out there using A Square .505?
Can someone measure a Norma PH 600 grain load? Or better yet compare A Square to Norma?

I assume that Norma PH 600 grain is the gold standard, and that brand should/must work.

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thorshammer
.300 member


Reged: 27/12/08
Posts: 150
Loc: USA
Re: CZ Safari Classic 550 Quality Issues [Re: bigboar]
      #126974 - 14/02/09 10:04 AM

Why is Norma gold standard because of the price I never used it or know anyone who has so cant help you there but I would send the rifle to Superior and have them work up loads softs and solids to same point of aim may cost a little extra but if you intend to hunt africa dangerous game the extra cost is worth it

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Mike_Bailey
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Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 2289
Loc: GB
Re: CZ Safari Classic 550 Quality Issues [Re: thorshammer]
      #127005 - 14/02/09 06:26 PM

Big Boar, the chap at CZ is not the only person to have "issues" with A square ammo, at least
three people I have spoken to in the trade have stated flat out that they would not use
A Square ammo at all, no links here, just repeating what I have been told. best, Mike

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9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5520
Loc: United States
Re: CZ Safari Classic 550 Quality Issues [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #127007 - 14/02/09 06:50 PM

Daryl, I got a chuckle from your post. No, I don't think CZ was tagging the lug on to deal with your handloads or anybody's handloads for that matter. More to the point of the lug, no .375 H&H Mag needs such a front lug if bedded anything like correctly in the first place.

Anybody can tighten a dovetail. But why? There is no reason on a gun that doesn't need the lug in the first place.

I think you'll find the problems with CZ's cited here aren't limited to bedding problems. THAT I agree they do not have a monopoly on. It is common to many makes. It is the overall erratic QC that causes the other more serious problems that are cause for concern. I have no experience with older Brno's.

I happen to like my 550 very much now. So much that I consider it a keeper and one I'll use alot. I did not like it when it was a 6.5x55 due to the problems cited. As a 9.3x62 and with my TLC added, much better indeed.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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doubleriflenut
.300 member


Reged: 27/11/08
Posts: 106
Loc: Chile
Re: CZ Safari Classic 550 Quality Issues [Re: 9.3x57]
      #127240 - 16/02/09 10:17 AM

LMAO!!!!!!!

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bigboar
.224 member


Reged: 05/02/09
Posts: 33
Loc: NewEngland
Re: CZ Safari Classic 550 Quality Issues [Re: doubleriflenut]
      #129328 - 12/03/09 05:38 AM

I got my CZ550 505 Gibbs back. My problem was the A-Square ammo. I purchased a box of $250 per 10 Norma and send two rounds of that out to Kansas City. Later after the ammo arrived, I talked with the gunsmith. I was told the Norma functioned perfectly. And, I got another ear full about A Square.

The smith at CZ told me they had a lot of problems with oversize A Square ammo. Head spacing and head diameter. He told me been several guns returned due to that ammo problem. He (CZ gunsmith) has complained to A square. CZ has purchased and returned out of spec ammo from A Square. He told me they returned a large lot of 505 A Square and the stuff all ended up at Cabelas! By coincidence, Cabelas had a sale/special on A square 505 when I purchase my ammo.

I have still not shot the 505, but I did cycle a few magazines of Norma loads. Fine. Smooth, no problems. Control feed and chambers as you would expect. Seemed smoother than my lott.

The Classics are assembled or built in Kansas City. For 3x the cost, it does appear too be a better finished gun and a better grade wood. Based on a sample of two. FWIW

Another couple observations relating to CZ quality. I saw two more CZ550 today. First, was a USED CZ in 505 Gibbs. It was built without any cross bolts! Second was a NEW 458 WinMag. The 458 had daul cross bolts. My CZ in 505 Gibbs has two bolts, glass bedding and recoil reducers. It is clear from talk on the web, that CZ has had more than usual problems, including stocks splitting. And just as clear from inspection of these two guns that CZ has made improvements. Buyer beware on the old used stuff.

Now, can I get any satisfaction (ie refund) on the defective ammo. I talked to the Cabelas store manager. He said no ammo return for any reason and take it up with A square. I think I am going to be stuck on that one.

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Tatume
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Reged: 09/06/07
Posts: 1091
Loc: Gloucester, Va USA
Re: CZ Safari Classic 550 Quality Issues [Re: bigboar]
      #129331 - 12/03/09 06:51 AM

One of my favorite cartridges is the 338-06, and I find it insulting that A-square has tacked their name on it.

--------------------
Take care, Tom
NRA Life Member

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bigmaxx
.375 member


Reged: 13/06/07
Posts: 660
Loc: Bowling Green KY U.S.A.
Re: CZ Safari Classic 550 Quality Issues *DELETED* [Re: thorshammer]
      #129333 - 12/03/09 07:20 AM

I had a CZ 550 Safari in .458 lott and it was a bit rough in the action department. It probably would have been fine with some use of a buff up by a good smith. It was adequate in the accuracy department. I however sold it and got a Ruger M77 in the lott chambering. I havent regretted it a bit. It is smooth and fast. I have fired several hundred rounds through it and taken a daggaboy and a big bull hippo with it. As for the lott caliber, sure alot of folks load them down to velocities attainable in .458 winchester magnum case; but what the heck is wrong with the capability of the full power lott too. It would be a good bet for elephants!

--------------------
One day at a time...

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farshot
.300 member


Reged: 25/01/06
Posts: 106
Loc: Alberta Canada
Re: CZ Safari Classic 550 Quality Issues *DELETED* [Re: bigmaxx]
      #129476 - 14/03/09 03:20 AM

Hmmm I guess ammo was the issue afer all and the "POS" CZ is not that bad - after all of the bad words and generalizations....

Big Bore -- I am glad it worked out for you (cept for the A-Square stuff)

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5520
Loc: United States
Re: CZ Safari Classic 550 Quality Issues [Re: bigboar]
      #129522 - 14/03/09 12:36 PM

Quote:

I think I am going to be stuck on that one.



bigboar;

Maybe try pulling bullets and resizing the cases. You might have to thin the shellholder a bit to get closer to the base. Worth a try at the expense you incurred.

I have sure had my struggles with CZ products, but several fellows that work for CZ are very helpful. Matt in particular has been more than willing to help with every problem I've encountered. In light of the fact that I find troubles with most new guns, service attitude eans alot to me. And CZ has a few very good guys working for them.

Here's mine, a favorite companion of mine now. Alot of work to get it here, but I like it alot.

I took this pic on my hike this morning on the gun stump:



--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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