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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Building Double Rifles & Gunsmithing

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4seventy
Sponsor


Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: Data on soldering [Re: alexbeer]
      #128030 - 25/02/09 05:42 PM

Alex,
As I have said before, you do very nice work indeed!
It's great to know that we have a gunmaker of this standard in Oz.
Someone who can build a high quality barrel set or a complete double rifle from scratch!

Kinda gets a bloke thinkin' about another set of barrels for the .470!
Maybe .400 NE 3 inch!

I don't s'pose you are coming to the Brisbane Safari Club Convention this weekend?

Thanks for those beaut photos and story!


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alexbeer
.333 member


Reged: 10/04/08
Posts: 389
Loc: Tasmania, Australia
Re: Data on soldering [Re: 4seventy]
      #128031 - 25/02/09 05:47 PM

Hello 4seventy,

Yes, as a matter a fact, we will be at the SCI convension this weekend, booth #14. Please come over and say G'day.

Regards

ALEX

alexbeer.com

--------------------

Details matter!


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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26659
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Data on soldering [Re: 4seventy]
      #128076 - 26/02/09 05:38 AM

Alex- what 'silver solder' (silver brazing) wire, or flat strip do you use? I also wonder if it is available here. I've only found one silver wire that flows that well - but then, maybe only with that wire, was I able to get the heat perfect? I've done considerable silver soldering (we don't call it brazing here) and with generaly excellent results, but NEVER on that scale.

ps - here, we call the lower temp silver soldering, "low temp" silver soldering. We call the high temp silver as just that, "silver soldering". It wasn't until 1974 that I'd even heard of the low temperature stuff- and what a boon to front sight ramps, 1/4 ribs, etc. force 44 from Brownells was the first low temp solder I tried.

Until that time, the only silver soldering we did was with the 1,150F + solder - oops, I mean braze to you. We also did lead soldering, with 70/30 or 50/50. - it's confusing, depending on what country you are from - the names are the guilty party - we're the innocent.

Again, wonderful job - Well done Chap.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Ron_Vella
.333 member


Reged: 29/04/05
Posts: 432
Loc: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: Data on soldering [Re: DarylS]
      #128078 - 26/02/09 05:53 AM

Daryl,
I copied and pasted this from one of Alex's earlier posts.


The silver brazing wire I use is a Bohler product, UTP306M. It has a 55% silver content, flows at 650 C (1202 F) and has a tensile strength of 430 MPA (62,366 PSI)


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alexbeer
.333 member


Reged: 10/04/08
Posts: 389
Loc: Tasmania, Australia
Re: Data on soldering [Re: DarylS]
      #128093 - 26/02/09 09:19 AM

Huvius,

I thread and soft solder the barrels into the mono-bloc. With the barrels so fitted, if a barrel did "come adrift" I feel that would be the very least of your problems at that precise moment. Some one please correct me if I am wrong here, but as far as I am aware, all mono-blocs are low temp soldered. I have not seen any done any other way.

Daryl S

I think you are correct on the terminology. I guess I call it “Brazing” and “Soldering” to differentiate between “Hard” (High temp) and “Soft” (Low temp) soldering. This very topic was discussed at some length on a previous thread, but I cannot find it. (Help anyone?) To totally agree with you though “it's confusing, depending on what country you are from - the names are the guilty party - we're the innocent”.

Regards

ALEX

alexbeer.com

--------------------

Details matter!


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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26659
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Data on soldering [Re: alexbeer]
      #128106 - 26/02/09 12:26 PM

The wire you use has good strength for sure.

I had some silver wire a while back, that was used to solder/braze tungsten carbide (carboloy) teeth onto circular saw blades for the 'gang saws' in the lumber mills here. The tensile strength for a 1 mil bond is supposed to be 78,000PSI. I suggest that is shear strength. It was wire, but fairly thick @ 1/8" and square in profile, with the sticks about 8" long. It was the most obnoxious silver I ever used. To that point, I'd been using a wire from a local shop that worked beautifully - just as yours has, but this stuff was horrid - wouldn't flow- had to be rubbed hard onto the steel to get it to work - only owrked if tining both sides and taxed even my mapp gas torch to get it to work. I only work with small parts, soldering shanks on drilles, reparing sights, lock parts, trigger gaurds, that sort of thing. I tossed it all out. Once of the 'machinests' at the mill told me is was $1.00 per inch. I'd been given about $400.00 of the stuff and it's long gone now - in the garbage. I wish I had some to try it again - oh well. Maybe if I talk nicely to the machinest again?

One of the blokes there found an old abondoned weight off the back of a log loader - probably 2,000 to 3,000 pound block of dead soft lead. We have to figure out a way of salvaging it.

sorry- off topic.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Bramble
.375 member


Reged: 29/07/06
Posts: 950
Loc: England
Re: Data on soldering [Re: DarylS]
      #128109 - 26/02/09 12:41 PM

Brazing is a whole science in itself. The range of alloys is bewildering to us that just perform a couple of tasks with it.

I have found it best to refer to the experts.

In the UK Johnson Mathey supply my stuff and their technical people are excellent as they actually manufacture the alloys.


Regards


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450_366
.400 member


Reged: 17/01/07
Posts: 1068
Loc: Sweden, west-coast.
Re: Data on soldering [Re: DarylS]
      #128141 - 26/02/09 06:38 PM

Quote:

The wire you use has good strength for sure.

I had some silver wire a while back, that was used to solder/braze tungsten carbide (carboloy) teeth onto circular saw blades for the 'gang saws' in the lumber mills here. The tensile strength for a 1 mil bond is supposed to be 78,000PSI. I suggest that is shear strength. It was wire, but fairly thick @ 1/8" and square in profile, with the sticks about 8" long. It was the most obnoxious silver I ever used. To that point, I'd been using a wire from a local shop that worked beautifully - just as yours has, but this stuff was horrid - wouldn't flow- had to be rubbed hard onto the steel to get it to work - only owrked if tining both sides and taxed even my mapp gas torch to get it to work. I only work with small parts, soldering shanks on drilles, reparing sights, lock parts, trigger gaurds, that sort of thing. I tossed it all out. Once of the 'machinests' at the mill told me is was $1.00 per inch. I'd been given about $400.00 of the stuff and it's long gone now - in the garbage. I wish I had some to try it again - oh well. Maybe if I talk nicely to the machinest again?

One of the blokes there found an old abondoned weight off the back of a log loader - probably 2,000 to 3,000 pound block of dead soft lead. We have to figure out a way of salvaging it.

sorry- off topic.




I think you had some of the "real" brazing alloy there, they range from about 870 celcius and up.

I tryed it once, but the parts turned red before the solder flowed, one day i will learn that one also but not in my nearest future.

And for the weight, get an old oil tank with a drain in the buttom, then light a fire around it.

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"


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Huvius
.416 member


Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3538
Loc: Colorado
Re: Data on soldering [Re: alexbeer]
      #128557 - 03/03/09 03:14 AM

Quote:

I thread and soft solder the barrels into the mono-bloc. With the barrels so fitted, if a barrel did "come adrift" I feel that would be the very least of your problems at that precise moment. Some one please correct me if I am wrong here, but as far as I am aware, all mono-blocs are low temp soldered. I have not seen any done any other way.




If a single piece mono-bloc were machined, could ports be machined longitudinally to allow the hi temp solder to flow in a similar way that you did by laying the solder along the rib?
Then the rib could be applied over the ports (thus hiding them) with low temp solder.
Then again, that would be a lot of machine work when a shoe lump is strong enough for a .500NE!

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.


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