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bonanza
.400 member

Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina

Hornady heavy magnum.
#124591 - 20/01/09 11:57 AM

How does Hornady get 2260 fps out of a .458 winchester magnum?

with their "Cool powder and special loading technique".

--------------------

"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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tinker
.416 member

Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada

Re: Hornady heavy magnum. [Re: bonanza]
#124597 - 20/01/09 01:52 PM

Pressure.

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--

"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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Bill_Cooley
.300 member

Reged: 14/12/06
Posts: 197
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas

Re: Hornady heavy magnum. [Re: tinker]
#124601 - 20/01/09 02:06 PM

I don’t think they do. I have some and posted a similar post on ar a while ago. I don’t have a .458 win at this time only Lott’s and was wondering if any one had tried it. Most replies reported 100 to 150 less than advertised velocity. While this is lower than advertised it should still kill everything. I am wondering if they have a tricked out test barrel lapped to max diameter and 26 in long.
Bill

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Ripp
.577 member

Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA

Re: Hornady heavy magnum. [Re: bonanza]
#124606 - 20/01/09 03:10 PM

Quote:

How does Hornady get 2260 fps out of a .458 winchester magnum?

with their "Cool powder and special loading technique".

They have a "special loading technique"..

I currently do have a .458W---next trip will pick up a box when I find them locally and chrono..will advise what I find..

Unless 9.3x57 has one as he certainly seems to be in the testing mood..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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AkMike
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Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska

Re: Hornady heavy magnum. [Re: Ripp]
#124636 - 20/01/09 08:06 PM

Heck with a flick of the fingers on the keyboard I can say that I can "getter dun" at 2275fps.. Will that sell more boxes of ammo?

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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Marrakai
.416 member

Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3495
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia

Re: Hornady heavy magnum. [Re: AkMike]
#124642 - 20/01/09 09:00 PM

Ask Matt Graham what velocity we chronographed for the loads he was given with a .458 guide-rifle he bought a few years back! They were about that, full case of Varget I believe. No pressure signs, other than on our shoulders!

Nevertheless, we pulled most of 'em and tipped some powder out....

....that rifle only weighed 8 lbs!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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beleg2
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Reged: 15/08/07
Posts: 591
Loc: Bahía Blanca - Argentina

Re: Hornady heavy magnum. [Re: Marrakai]
#124645 - 20/01/09 09:45 PM

I tryed this type of ammo some years ago, in .308 Win. Light Magnum.
It was impresive, more velocity, because it have more powder (european powder).
They put more powder using a drop tube, I use this way to refill one cartridge just to see.
Martin

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9.3x57
.450 member

Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5504
Loc: United States

Re: Hornady heavy magnum. [Re: beleg2]
#124654 - 21/01/09 12:38 AM

I wish I had a .458...

Back a few years ago one of the rags ran a piece about the whole series of Hornady "Magnum" cartridges. IIRC, the gist of it was that they use a special, proprietary mix of non-canister grade powder and some hocus-pocus loading techniques resulting in a form of compressed loads. Also IIRC, pressures were not deemed to be higher than SAAMI standards but may have been a bit higher than normal factory loads.

I do not know if they have a vibrating loading deck for the cases, or some form of drop-tubing of the powder or what. Higher QC could result in loads at SAAMI top levels I suppose whereas many factory loads are below max pressures and meant to be.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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bonanza
.400 member

Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina

Re: Hornady heavy magnum. [Re: 9.3x57]
#124656 - 21/01/09 01:07 AM

Ok, even if it is 2150 or 2250, it will finally SHUT-UP the .458 WM haters out there.

Get yourself one (.458) before our Obamanation of a president bans anything above .22

--------------------

"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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Ripp
.577 member

Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA

Re: Hornady heavy magnum. [Re: 9.3x57]
#124657 - 21/01/09 01:30 AM

Quote:

I wish I had a .458...

I do not know if they have a vibrating loading deck for the cases, or some form of drop-tubing of the powder or what. Higher QC could result in loads at SAAMI top levels I suppose whereas many factory loads are below max pressures and meant to be.

The article I had read stated it used a "drop tube method" of sorts...

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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Der_Jaeger
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Reged: 09/10/08
Posts: 607
Loc: SE Pennsylvania

Re: Hornady heavy magnum. [Re: Ripp]
#124664 - 21/01/09 02:01 AM

Federal has a wonderful line of High Energy loads that are probably assembled with the same technology/ Unfortunately, they discontinued the .338 Win Mag loading several years ago. I stumbled upon 20 boxes at a local gun store and bought them all.

250 grain Nosler Partitions at 2800 fps muzzle velocity out of a 24" barrel. My rifle has a 26" barrel. It's a screamer on both ends.

They even had that loading in the Woodleigh Weldcore.

--------------------

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458ONLY
.224 member

Reged: 20/06/08
Posts: 24
Loc: Ontario, Canada

Re: Hornady heavy magnum. [Re: bonanza]
#124687 - 21/01/09 06:53 AM

Quote:

How does Hornady get 2260 fps out of a .458 winchester magnum?

with their "Cool powder and special loading technique".

A couple of things that may shed some light: 1)Some boxes of the "Heavy Magnum" don't produce claims. Some well respected posters on a couple of other forums report MVs of less than 2100 fps.

and 2)Because of my interest in the 458WM, and writing a hunting journal on it for North America, I contacted Hornady and Barnes on several occasions. There is a powder that'll produce the claimed MV - AA2230 - to be specific, in 24" tubes. But Hornady recommends H335 as the best overall powder, and that's what I use in my CZ for heavy bullets (500s), getting 2200 fps even because of the very long action and long throat. I can get 2300 fps from my rifle quite easily, but 2200 fps is enough. When I asked Hornady about AA2230, the response was "yes" it will produce the MV listed in their manual from a 24" tube with "certain lots"! Other lots, "No". And, at times certain powders are unavailable (or lots of powder)to them.

Regarding the less than advertised MVs, I suspect, with good reason, that they got a supply of powder that didn't meet specs! That happens. They can't return it if it falls within certain parameters, even a slow lot.

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Tatume
.400 member

Reged: 09/06/07
Posts: 1091
Loc: Gloucester, Va USA

Re: Hornady heavy magnum. [Re: 458ONLY]
#124701 - 21/01/09 09:06 AM

Quote:

I wish I had a .458...

Hi Rod,

For most of my shooting with the Ruger #1 in 458 Win Mag I use what I believe may be the powder that caused all the controversy. The difference is, I don’t compress it. Instead, I load IMR-4895 at 100% loading density and am satisfied with 2000+ fps with 500 gr bullets. If I were going to Africa to hunt dangerous game I would use H335 and push my loads to 2150 fps. But at 2000 - 2050 fps, the Ruger makes a fine American gun. Lighter bullets make for a fine 200-yard deer gun too! However, when I hunt deer with it, I tell people it’s a 45-70, so they’ll leave me alone. For some reason it’s okay to kill deer with a 45-70, but it’s “wrong” to use a 458 Win Mag. Some people! (Of course, usually I don’t tell anybody anything, because I rarely hunt with anybody.)

Get yourself a 458; you’ll enjoy it.

--------------------
Take care, Tom
NRA Life Member

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CptCurl
.450 member

Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5275
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...

Re: Hornady heavy magnum. [Re: Tatume]
#124765 - 22/01/09 01:15 AM

Does anybody have any "pet loads" using H335 and the 500 grain Hornady RN soft?

In my .458 I have tried recommended loads of Varget, but the case is full before the bullet goes on. Too much compression for me - the case bulges from powder compression.

Thanks,
Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.

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Tatume
.400 member

Reged: 09/06/07
Posts: 1091
Loc: Gloucester, Va USA

Re: Hornady heavy magnum. [Re: CptCurl]
#124821 - 22/01/09 08:37 AM

Quote:

Does anybody have any "pet loads" using H335 and the 500 grain Hornady RN soft?

Capt.,

Try http://www.hodgdon.com/

You have to "Agree" to get in, or I would have posted the direct link.

--------------------
Take care, Tom
NRA Life Member

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JPK
.375 member

Reged: 31/08/04
Posts: 734
Loc: Chevy Chase, MD

Re: Hornady heavy magnum. [Re: Tatume]
#124852 - 22/01/09 01:41 PM

I use AA 2230 and have found it to be completely consistent and temperature insensative as well. I've used powder from three different lots in the last couple of years and it has produced the same velocity with the same load from two different barrels (which are soldered together.) I've tried it in cold weather and in very hot weather here in the US and it clocks the same or close enough that the difference is lost in ordinary deviation between individual loaded rounds.

My load is 72.5grs in Norma brass with Federal 215 primers shooting 500gr Woodleigh solids. My load runs 2145fps at the muzzles. This is a middlin' toward light load in the Hornaday book, to which I was referred by Woodleigh. ~26 1/4" barrels.

This load is plenty for elephants, buff or whatever else you might want to kill. FYI, there is a major improvement in performance of 500gr solids when you move from ~2050fps to 2145fps. The leap in peformance is not linear and is much greater than one would anticipate with a ~100fps gain in velocity.

If I recall correctly, 74 or 74.5grs does the same velocity with the Woodleigh 500gr softs.

No problems with standard reloading techniques, no drop tubes, etc.

Varget not only takes up too much room, it burns very dirty.

JPK

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