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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Single Shots & Combination Guns
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Der_Jaeger
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Reged: 09/10/08
Posts: 607
Loc: SE Pennsylvania
Favorite All-Around Drilling?
      #124069 - 14/01/09 11:07 PM



Without regard to any specific maker, what do you feel is the best standard drilling combination of shotgun bore and caliber? Let's say the intended purpose is exactly what it was originally designed for which is general big game hunting with a mixed bag of small game and upland birds.

There are endless combinations out there and some are fascinating and others cause you to raise a questioning brow. Regardless, I'm curious what others think is the ideal.

I'll start,

My ideal combination would be a 16x16x.270, or a 20x20x.270. Neither is commonly found,

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Birdhunter50
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Re: Favorite All-Around Drilling? [Re: Der_Jaeger]
      #124070 - 14/01/09 11:45 PM

I owned a short barrelled 16 X 16 X 9.3x72R that I liked for hunting. It didn't weigh much more than a normal 16 double,(7 pounds), and was well balanced. The 9.3 shot a 194 grain bullet at a decent speed and put out about the same energy as a .44 magnum pistol which is enough for deer and hogs if you are careful about your shot placement. I realize that there are many more powerful drilling rifle calibers out there, but you pay for them in the added weight of a heavier rifle barrel. It depends too on what you will be hunting and how you hunt. If you carry your gun alot and don't shoot so often, then you want a light weight gun. If you are mostly a stand hunter, then you can get by with a heavier gun. If you want it for rabbit/varmit hunting, then you should look at maybe a 20 X 20 X .222. Each person has their own reasons for wanting a certain drilling caliber and that's why there are so many different ones out there.
You need to ask yourself some hard questions and answer them as honestly as possible. What will you hunt with it? How much will it be carried? Will you scope sight it? Etc. Bob H.

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xausa
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Reged: 07/03/07
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Re: Favorite All-Around Drilling? [Re: Birdhunter50]
      #124077 - 15/01/09 12:49 AM

I tend to think of a drilling as a short range instinctive shooting weapon and that means that I have trouble justifying a rifle barrel with long range potential, like the .270 or the 7X65R. For that reason, when I actually bought a Krieghoff Neptun drilling in 16/16/7X65R, I had the rifle barrel opened up to 8X65R, which gives me the benefit of a full range of heavy 8mm bullets. Other drillings in my gun room include a Greifelt 16/16/7X57R, a J.P Sauer 16/16/8X57JR, a Greifelt 12/12/8X60R and a Krieghoff 16/16/9.3X72R.

One feature which I find very desirable is separate rifle barrel cocking. However, I also prefer a tang safety, so all of my separate rifle barrel cocking drillings (2 Krieghoff Neptuns and a sidelock J.P. Sauer) use a side lever cocking device. I do prefer a scope sighted drilling and three of my drillings have scopes, all low powered variables.

I have to admit that I have always had a weakness for the idea of a Doppelbuechsdrilling: two rifle barrels over a shot barrel, preferably 9.3X74R over 20 gauge 3" Magnum. I don't expect to ever own one, however.

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Der_Jaeger
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Re: Favorite All-Around Drilling? [Re: xausa]
      #124083 - 15/01/09 01:08 AM



Hmmmm, interesting thoughts, xusa. I guess you're right in that a Drilling would be used in a quick mount/instinctive shooting situation. I'm not sure that negates the value of a .270 barrel but your thought would open up a lot of calibers that I tend to pass over. The 7x57 and 8x57 have never held any interest to me and the 9.3x72 seems very hard to come by when looking for ammo. A separate rifle cocking device mounted on the side would be ideal. Doppelbuechsdrillings are another very useful combination. I guess the drilling configuration is determined by whether your primary intent for the day is big game or gane on the wing. Vierlings and Fumpflings are also very interesting if you happen to live in an area where you literally have no idea what you may run across and don't mind carrying around a gun vault. Some areas may restrict the number of guns owned to one, which makes these types of guns very useful indeed.

In addition to the Krieghoff Trumpf model, the Merkel drillings have a lot of appeal to me, too.

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fuhrmann
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Re: Favorite All-Around Drilling? [Re: Der_Jaeger]
      #124091 - 15/01/09 02:38 AM

I am a bit at odds with the Drilling as it is made today.
The old-time Drilling was a side-by-side shotgun with an additional rifle barrel. But these guns were balanced and handled like shotguns.

Nowadays the Drilling is seen as a rifle, adorned with a biiig germanic scope ("you simply need 50 mm lenses for night hunting", stocked in the worst germanic way (humpback with a lot of drop, a steep "Kaiser grip" etc., fitted with a heavy full-lenght insert barrel etc.
High pressure rifle calibers will add weight.
So the drilling got heavy, in my eyes out of balance, OK for "Hochsitz" shooting, but pretty useless for decent shotgunning - remember that one barrel is always blocked by the rifled insert....

Having a new Drilling built to specifications is expensive.
So my only choice would be a pre-war Drilling, 16 gauge over 7x57R or 8x57IR.
One simply has to "bite the bullet" that 16 gauge shells may be hard to find, and that most pre-war hunting barrels were made for .318 bullets.

Fuhrmann

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450_366
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Re: Favorite All-Around Drilling? [Re: fuhrmann]
      #124094 - 15/01/09 02:56 AM

I think the only drilling i would want is a 20/9,3x74r/17Hmr. The shotgun barrel on top of a free floating 9,3mm barrel and the 17hmr in the middle to the right not weighting more than 2,5kg. This would satisfy my need for a drilling.

But one of those pre-war drillings where you are able to take the rifled barrel clean of the shotgun barrels, that one would serve as a shotgun also as we are at our six gun limit.

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

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dale
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Loc: logan W.V.
Re: Favorite All-Around Drilling? [Re: 450_366]
      #124152 - 15/01/09 03:57 PM

Drillings and combination guns were made for West Virginia! Any give day, (mabe a little shuffeling) you might get the opportunity for deer,bear,turkey,hog,rabbit,grouse,coyote,fox, and squirrels. I am as thrilled with a good shot on a squirrel as a deer. Guess I'm just a trash hunter as well as a trashdog period. Either 8x57r or 7x57r and I love 16 gauge. I agree that it's lighter and better to carry without a scope especially if you have quick detachable mounts.

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Der_Jaeger
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Re: Favorite All-Around Drilling? [Re: dale]
      #124172 - 15/01/09 10:55 PM


Dale,

I'm with you on that 100%. What you said regarding West Virginia applies equally as well to Pennsylvania, which is why I'm bringing up this topic. Where I hunt, I can literally shoot a deer, turkey, squirrel, rabbit, pheasant, grouse, or a hog on any given day. Granted, some are more abundant than others BUT, you never know. How cool would it be to trapse through the Appalachian Uplands with a Drilling or Cape gun draped over your arms as you follow your Draahthar through the hills listening for the tinkling of the swiss bell on her neck?

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WVTOM
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Re: Favorite All-Around Drilling? [Re: Der_Jaeger]
      #124182 - 16/01/09 12:34 AM


I also agree with Dale and Der Jaeger as it best fits the area I live, and 100 yards shots are not commom---more like 40-50 yards, If I lived elsewhere that might change .

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luv2safari
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Re: Favorite All-Around Drilling? [Re: Der_Jaeger]
      #124249 - 16/01/09 02:43 PM

If I had to give all but one up, the survivor would be my common mid 1960's 12ga/30-06 with the 22 mag insert in the right barrel. I had the beavertail forend trimmed to a sturdy splinter, and the gun handles much better. It has a 6X scope in claws with a #4 reticule.

Ammo is never a problem, and it will handle most hunting situations. It is a viable 250 yard big game gun with the set trigger. I've had no extraction problems with the rimless case, and a 12ga is capable of shooting a wide variety of ammo, both shot and slug.

I wouldn't turn down a 20ga/9,3X74R...

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics

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xausa
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Re: Favorite All-Around Drilling? [Re: fuhrmann]
      #124261 - 16/01/09 11:24 PM

Von wegen....

http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=1923803&img=3#img

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Daniel_Paydar
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Reged: 27/08/08
Posts: 30
Loc: UK
Re: Favorite All-Around Drilling? [Re: xausa]
      #124268 - 17/01/09 12:42 AM

my favorite drilling would be a gun in 12+12/ 0.30 blaser or 9,3x74R with barrels in beuhler antinit steel and the rest of part made of high alloy CR nickel steel better be rather short 20-22 inch length barrel with ticker barrels and superb valnut in stock.
cheers
Daniel

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88MauSporter
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Reged: 06/06/07
Posts: 530
Loc: Alaska / Texas
Re: Favorite All-Around Drilling? [Re: Daniel_Paydar]
      #124283 - 17/01/09 04:58 AM

Mine is a 9.3X72R x 16/16. My ideal would be 12/12 X 7 or 8 x57sR or the 9.3x74.
Though with the drilling and the hunting I am likely to do with it, what I have is just fine.

--------------------
"A hunter should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everthing goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." 88MauSporter

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grandveneur
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Re: Favorite All-Around Drilling? [Re: Der_Jaeger]
      #124305 - 17/01/09 11:03 AM

12-12/9,3x74R. A good scope for hunting in the darkness and you can shot from bird to the biggest wildbore.

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Caprivi
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Reged: 30/09/08
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Re: Favorite All-Around Drilling? [Re: grandveneur]
      #124314 - 17/01/09 02:03 PM

Der Jeager and I have discussed this at length. I am inlcined to think I would want a 12/12 .30'06 as a ideal, if it was light enough. Agreed in that most modern ones are rifles first and shotguns as an after thought. The idea of a choice of shot, slugs, rifle, insert small bore. Just too cool.

--------------------
To live life as it is handed to me from God

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DM
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Reged: 12/02/07
Posts: 107
Loc: mid west USA
Re: Favorite All-Around Drilling? [Re: Der_Jaeger]
      #124832 - 22/01/09 11:22 AM

Over the years, i've owned several drillings and shot even more... To me a drilling is a "hunting" weapon, and that means it has to be light and handy. I want my drilling no heavier than 7 pounds, and i want it chambered for a rimmed cartridge. It needs to have enough bullet energy and penetration to cleanly kill big game at 300 yards. I also want it to have a short insert bbl., to quietly harvest small game with. I want it to have a good quality scope in "claw" mounts for those longer shots. I prefer claw mounts because they always come back to zero, and you never see them when bird shooting.

12ga. drillings are heavy and clunky, 16ga. drillings are built on 20ga. frames, so they are much lighter. I prefer the 16ga over a 20ga., and ammo is never a problem for me. When i find a load that i like in my gun, i buy up enough "ahead of time" to last me a few years. If i need more, i also buy it ahead of time too, so i don't have to go looking for it the day i need it... Also it's not hard to find adapters to shoot 20ga ammo in a 16ga gun...

My choise for the rifle cartridge is 8x57jrs. It will cleanly take big game at 300 yards without having too much recoil in a 7 pound gun. I'm a big fan of Nosler partition bullets, and they make an excelent 200 grain NP in .323"

I'm also a big fan of Keirghoff rim fire insert bbls... They are VERY accurate and always go back to zero when put into the shot bbl...

Anyway, here's my choise for the perfect drilling. It's a Krieghoff Semper made in 1935, it weighs just under 7 pounds.



It's chambered for 8x57jrs, as it has the "S" bore of .323", the 16ga. chambers are 2-3/4"... I have two scopes for it, both in claw mounts... First, a B&L 1.5x6 as seen in the above pict., and the second scope is an Zeiss 3x9.



The longest shot i've taken was at a coyote. It was VERY close to 300 yards away, i pulled my scope out of my pack, snapped in on, and took the shot. The coyote ran about 30 yards and piled up with a solid hit through the ribs...

I have two Krieghoff insert bbls for my drilling, both are short enough to easily go into my pack, or in a pocket. One is chambered for 22lr and the other 22 Win. Mag...



They are VERY accurate and have been very useful. I shot this fox a couple weeks ago useing the lr insert...



I also had screw in choke tubes made for my drilling...



I can use open chokes for close shots when grouse hunting, or screw in the tighter chokes for turkey hunting, like this tom i harvested...



I'm very happy with the 200NP's i load in my 8x57jrs, and i've taken much big game with them, from moose and bear on down to deer, Javolina and much small game all for my freezer...





I can't tell you how much pleasure my Semper has given me over the 25 years i have owned it, and i wouldn't trade it for any other drilling i have seen!

DM

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Der_Jaeger
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Re: Favorite All-Around Drilling? [Re: DM]
      #124834 - 22/01/09 11:36 AM

What a very nice Drilling and also a very convincing argument for your barrel arrangement and configuration. Your Krieghoff has a very nice piece of wood on it too considering the Germans always place more emphasis on strength rather than looks. That's more true on the older guns rather than the newer ones of the last 10 years. They hit on both counts with your gun.

Thanks for sharing!

By the way, how do you get the "Copyright" insignia on your home photos?

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Ripp
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Re: Favorite All-Around Drilling? [Re: Der_Jaeger]
      #124837 - 22/01/09 11:52 AM

Kind of ironic--was at a local gun shop this week--they had a Merkel in 20x20 with the rifle in .270--thought that would be and ideal weapon for my neck of the woods..they were asking $12,000. for you..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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mickey
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Re: Favorite All-Around Drilling? [Re: Ripp]
      #124870 - 22/01/09 06:30 PM

Here is mine. Like DM's it is a 2 3/4" 16 over and 8x57jrs.





Here is the neat part with the second two 8mm and a 16 2 3/4





I have mounted a 2x7 Leopold on it with old style Leopold detachable rings but would like to have the original rings.

Anyone have any ideas?




--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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Der_Jaeger
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Reged: 09/10/08
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Re: Favorite All-Around Drilling? [Re: Ripp]
      #124875 - 22/01/09 10:43 PM

Quote:

Kind of ironic--was at a local gun shop this week--they had a Merkel in 20x20 with the rifle in .270--thought that would be and ideal weapon for my neck of the woods..they were asking $12,000. for you..

Ripp



Another temptation to take away my safari funds! I also saw a Krighoff in the same configuration and at the same cost.

New hard to find Drilling? Safari? Hmmmmmmmmm

--------------------

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DM
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Re: Favorite All-Around Drilling? [Re: Der_Jaeger]
      #124894 - 23/01/09 01:54 AM

Quote:

What a very nice Drilling and also a very convincing argument for your barrel arrangement and configuration. Your Krieghoff has a very nice piece of wood on it too considering the Germans always place more emphasis on strength rather than looks. That's more true on the older guns rather than the newer ones of the last 10 years. They hit on both counts with your gun.

Thanks for sharing!

By the way, how do you get the "Copyright" insignia on your home photos?



Thanks for the kind words...

When i bought my drilling, the stock was broken in several pieces. I glassed it back together to try it out before makeing the deal. I was looking for a drilling that would be my "go to" gun for the rest of my life, so the dents in the bbls, broken stock and other problems were of no concern to me.

I use to buy and sell stock wood. I became friends with Andy Gardener who sawed all of the wood for Pachmeyrs in Ca... Anyway, one day i was talking to Andy, and told him i was looking for something spl. for a gun i was rebuilding. I had looked at a LOT of blanks, I even went through a pile that was headed to Perazzi... Andy said, "just a minute", as he headed to his living quarters at the mill. Pretty soon out he came, saying "i've been saveing this for something special!" Then he went on to say "when i started sawing over 40 years ago, i found a blank that was naturally grafted English/Bastone cross, and i didn't think it was all that spl., so i sold it for $7.00. It took me 45 years to find this one. I've had it hidden in my closset for many years now, and it will be perfect for you!" I was about floored! Andy gave that blank to me, and it's IS perfect!! THANK YOU ANDY!!

You can see on the right side of this pict where the graft line is... There's one in the forearm too... I've never seen another like it...



I then spent many months adding and takeing away tape and material to the origional stock while hunting and clay shooting to get it where it fit me perfectly. Once i had it where i hit the best, i sent it all off to Germany where they built the stock you see today. It is still the same shape of the origional stock though.



As for the water marks... They are added by my picture hosting site... www.fototime.com

DM

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Der_Jaeger
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Reged: 09/10/08
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Loc: SE Pennsylvania
Re: Favorite All-Around Drilling? [Re: DM]
      #124896 - 23/01/09 02:00 AM



Great story! Thanks for sharing that!

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kevinh1157
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Re: Favorite All-Around Drilling? [Re: Der_Jaeger]
      #125208 - 27/01/09 10:33 AM

My favorite all-around drilling would be SxS 12 bore with a 9.3.62 or 7x65R below the shotgun barrels. My dream would be two 12 bore barrel, with either a 9.3x62 or a 7x76R and a .22 Magnum right down the center (a Vierling!!) I can dream, until then I will stay with my CZ Combination.

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88MauSporter
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Reged: 06/06/07
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Loc: Alaska / Texas
Re: Favorite All-Around Drilling? [Re: kevinh1157]
      #125212 - 27/01/09 01:10 PM

Thought I might add photos of my drilling. Kettner proofed with 1939 proofs. Odd action for such a late gun. 9.3x72R Normalized. 16 ga x 16 ga 65 mm chambers. Of course, it is near full and full.
Set trigger for the rifle. Tang lever for the switch from shot barrel to rifle. Various game engravings. Stag, boar, rabbit, grouse.
Trapp under the butt stock. manual lift up blade. Offset claww mounts. No scope.
Shoots well with S&B loads in the 9.3. Bore of the 9.3 is correct at the .366. Only shooting with the shot barrels was at sporting clays so far. Comes to point pretty well.










So far my favorite drilling.

--------------------
"A hunter should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everthing goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." 88MauSporter

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450_366
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Reged: 17/01/07
Posts: 1068
Loc: Sweden, west-coast.
Re: Favorite All-Around Drilling? [Re: 88MauSporter]
      #125218 - 27/01/09 07:11 PM

If you think its odd ind the 1930s, you wouldnt beleve that you can get a new one. Look at this for example. http://www.samereier.de/der_deutsche_hahndrilling.htm

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

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