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Hunting >> Hunting in Australia, NZ & the South Pacific
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Pilgrim
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For those down under - Question
      #123884 - 13/01/09 04:56 AM

I've been pondering what to me is an obvious answer to a couple of problems for several months now and wonder if it has been discussed in the past...

Since the northern part of your wonderful country is (reportedly) more or less overrun with brumbies, buffalo, pigs, and I don't know what else, has any thought been given to introducing a predator that would help with the numbers, and within 15 or 20 years provide an incredible hunting opportunity, and not likely cause any great harm to existing hunting? Specifically, I am wondering if introduction of the Sumatran Tiger wouldn't be wonderful for both the tiger (near extinction due to poaching, etc etc) and eventually provide for some wonderful hunting in Oz? I've thought about it quite a bit, but being ignorant of your contry, don't know the problems it would cause. I don't think the tiger would be any problem with man-eating as I've not heard of this problem outside of the Bengals in the Sunderbans (India/Bangladesh). Anyway, thoughts??

Pilgrim (aka Duane Bogen)

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peter
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Re: For those down under - Question [Re: Pilgrim]
      #123889 - 13/01/09 05:13 AM

i think introducing such a large predator would get some negative reactions fron the aussies, they already have the salties and australia try to keep their fauna unaltered as far as i know.

cheers

peter

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500Nitro
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Re: For those down under - Question [Re: peter]
      #123891 - 13/01/09 05:45 AM


I talked about that this year - again !!!

I reckon Lions would be the best surviors.
Game not well spread enough for Tigers.


And the Cattle Industry would have a heart attack at the suggestion but hell, it would be great to have something
like that up there.


I also think both would become Man Eaters.

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Sarg
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Re: For those down under - Question [Re: 500Nitro]
      #123901 - 13/01/09 06:43 AM

That would be fantastic , same thoughts I have ever time I'm up there , 500NE is right Lions (Asian) & Black Rino in the open country & Sumatran Tigers on Cobourg Penninsula which has the right habitat & game.

He is also right it will never happen for many reasons , Cattle Industry ,Greenies & for sure man eating (even if they killed 1 person by accident) but sure would be great !

Would be great to have Snow Leopards down South here in Tahr country , clean up some of those damm Merino Sheep too !

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500Nitro
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Re: For those down under - Question [Re: Sarg]
      #123909 - 13/01/09 07:45 AM


Sarg


Huntng Dangerous game (Buffalo) with the chance you could
become the hunted !!!

I like the sound of that !

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450_366
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Re: For those down under - Question [Re: 500Nitro]
      #123918 - 13/01/09 10:06 AM

I was under the impression that you australians had learnt what happens when an alien species is introduced in an delicate enviroment, the rabbit.

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

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tophet1
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Re: For those down under - Question [Re: 450_366]
      #123924 - 13/01/09 11:09 AM

Great theory. Perfect Habitat. It will never happen.

Imagine the reaction from all the city fed do-gooders. 98% of our population lives on the coast and 95% is urbanised. IMO, contrary to popularist images the Aussie is basically an urban species with all the restrictions that lifestyle imposes..... and I live here....

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RLI
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Re: For those down under - Question [Re: tophet1]
      #123925 - 13/01/09 11:20 AM

I think the Leopard would spread quick also the warthog and black rhino would feel at home but its not going to happen!

--------------------
"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid." — John Wayne

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Sarg
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Re: For those down under - Question [Re: 450_366]
      #123927 - 13/01/09 11:37 AM

No no ! Andreas , there is a much worse foe , the Cane Toad he kills all & none can kill (or should I say eat & surive) him , he is well on his way to invading the NT - 10 years ago none were to be seen , now lots to be seen , even the fish (Barra) won't take frog type lures so much now !

Yes 500NE that would be very interesting , we get a bit complacent some times ?

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500Nitro
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Re: For those down under - Question [Re: Sarg]
      #123929 - 13/01/09 11:54 AM


Sarg

Complacent - no, not me, had it drummed into me not to get complacent and had 3 full on charges in 4-5 years
and then this week managed to get myself in the middle of a herd of Buff in thick shit without being able to shoot (mate otherside so safety) and got trampled but all OK.


Leopard - yes, would survive and possibly expand.

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kamilaroi
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Re: For those down under - Question [Re: 450_366]
      #123947 - 13/01/09 06:50 PM

Quote:

I was under the impression that you australians had learnt what happens when an alien species is introduced in an delicate enviroment, the rabbit.



and some are still to learn.....

BTW Gurig Ganak Barlu NP ("Cobourg" to some) is traditional lands leased back to Federal government.
Local Iwaitja people have right of veto on all matters as it has always been their property in perpetuity.

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Marty
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Re: For those down under - Question [Re: kamilaroi]
      #123948 - 13/01/09 06:59 PM

They have enough trouble with dingos in cattle country and they are murder on sheep. I could just imagine the response of the Cattlemens union to the suggestion of releaseing Lions, Tigers and leopards!! It would make the wolves in Yosemite look like a teddy bears picnic....

--------------------
__________________________________

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JabaliHunter
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Re: For those down under - Question [Re: Marty]
      #123953 - 13/01/09 08:54 PM

What about Atlas lions? Extinct outside captivity as far as I know, and biggest manes of the lot! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_Lion

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Taos
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Re: For those down under - Question [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #123957 - 13/01/09 09:39 PM

then you could just be like us in the western U.S. have more predators to cut down the game and stock. Politicians would run it from the cities and screw up any hunting you do have. We are dealing with wolves that the greenies think we need and getting it in the butt from them as they rule our world from the living room in New York. Don't even contemplate it!!

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ALAN_MCKENZIE
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Re: For those down under - Question [Re: Taos]
      #123962 - 13/01/09 11:02 PM

Australia is full of enough POMMY VERMIN now without importing something else.
FCOL give us some credability.
We have ,fox,rabbit,hare,starling,sparrow,blackbird,minar,goldfinch,celon crow,fallow deer,red deer,feral cats,rats and mice
And from other parts of the world we have camel,donkey,horse,banteng,goat,buffalo ,chital,hog deer,sambar,rusa and so the list goes on.
Lets not forget the cane toad which is within 10 kilometers of the West Australian border at Kununurra.

Then of course we have these bloody boat people lobbing on our northern coast from god knows where.

Give us a break,stick your lions and tigers where the sun dont shine

Al

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949

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weedypigeon
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Re: For those down under - Question [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
      #124016 - 14/01/09 01:40 PM

Alan McKenzie:- Agree totally and the only thing I can add to your list Alan is feral pigs. Others not " shootable" are European Carp and Telapia fish in the rivers. At some stage somebody introduced the Australian Brushtail Possum to New Zealand with very negative results. Does anyone get the feeling this topic could become very political and very divisive very quickly ??

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500Nitro
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Re: For those down under - Question [Re: weedypigeon]
      #124017 - 14/01/09 01:47 PM


European Carp are Shootable - you can even shoot them, gut them and have them on the bank of the river all in one shot !!!

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ALAN_MCKENZIE
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Re: For those down under - Question [Re: 500Nitro]
      #124023 - 14/01/09 02:08 PM

Nigel,I have to agree with you on shooting carp especially when loaded with 00 buckshot.
Al

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949

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500Nitro
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Re: For those down under - Question [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
      #124026 - 14/01/09 03:30 PM


Yep, it's great fun, AND does some good for Australia at the same time and I've even found that the birds (Eagles, Hawks, Cormorants, Water Rats (Native) all get a good free feed as well so wins all round !!!

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ozhunter
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Re: For those down under - Question [Re: 500Nitro]
      #124030 - 14/01/09 03:48 PM

Leopard, Kudu, Bushbuck, Thompson Gazelle, Gemsbok, Cape Buff, Rino, Impala and the list goes on.
Leopard would do well in all parts of Aus.
Might thin out the sheep.
Wishful thinking..

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500Nitro
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Re: For those down under - Question [Re: ozhunter]
      #124032 - 14/01/09 03:58 PM


A few Elephant up North would be intersting !!!

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: For those down under - Question [Re: 500Nitro]
      #124037 - 14/01/09 04:45 PM

Quote:


A few Elephant up North would be intersting !!!



Tasmania would be better.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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Sarg
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Re: For those down under - Question [Re: NitroX]
      #124048 - 14/01/09 06:22 PM

There were releases of Zebra , Cape Buffalo & Black Buck in WA or so I once read , Zebra & Cape Buff don't work but Black Buck breed well until ? ?

Some say they can still be found ?

Normal Leopard would not be a good animal , very good killer but you hardly see them unless baited , they would over run the place , rare species would be the ones to get , as to help preserve them !

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ALAN_MCKENZIE
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Re: For those down under - Question [Re: Sarg]
      #124060 - 14/01/09 10:24 PM

Hey Sarg if you are so keen to import big cats ect ,do it in New Zealand,not here.
Remember what the possum is doing to NZ.
Iff you want to hunt big cats go to africa or india.
Al

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949

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Birdhunter50
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Re: For those down under - Question [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
      #124073 - 15/01/09 12:00 AM

We could export a few thousand Coyotes to you down there and they would help with your sheep problems. Coy/dogs would be better yet but they are harder to find and catch. Bob H.

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Sarg
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Re: For those down under - Question [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
      #124118 - 15/01/09 06:58 AM

Al - New Zealand does not have the huge open spaces with LOTS of Big prey species & very few people !

Also if you were to read the posts I said to preserve rare animals not hunt them !
And some Snow Loepards would be great in the Southern Alps as I said .

And thank you I have been to India ,Africa , Sumatra

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500Nitro
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Re: For those down under - Question [Re: Sarg]
      #124119 - 15/01/09 07:08 AM


Sarg

You release the animals in the Wild in Australia, they will get shot. No if's or but's. I would without hesitation hunt and shoot any of the animals listed.

If you want to preserve them, stick them in a zoo, albeit a free range open zoo like at Dubbo.

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ChrisPer
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Re: For those down under - Question [Re: 500Nitro]
      #124129 - 15/01/09 10:27 AM

Re the black buck, in 1979 I shared a house with a couple of other students, one of whom came from a station in the Northwest Cape region, and yet became a political greenie. She said there was rumoured to be a herd of black buck on one of the adjoining stations. She is now an MLC in VIC if you want to investigate further 500Nitro!

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: For those down under - Question [Re: Sarg]
      #124147 - 15/01/09 02:58 PM

Quote:

There were releases of Zebra , Cape Buffalo & Black Buck in WA or so I once read , Zebra & Cape Buff don't work but Black Buck breed well until ? ?

Some say they can still be found ?




Allegedly there are eland in the NT.

Plus the fenced herds of zebra, sable and waterbuck, others? from the old Warren Anderson (?) property.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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ALAN_MCKENZIE
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Re: For those down under - Question [Re: Sarg]
      #124173 - 15/01/09 11:18 PM

Southern Alps of NZ ,NOT AUSTRALIA

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949

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ozhunter
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Re: For those down under - Question [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
      #124218 - 16/01/09 08:56 AM

Mmm, Snow Leopard at my favorite Snowy Rabbit and Trout spot.
Would have to consider something bigger than the 22 or 22Mag.
Perhaps a Drilling in 7x57R x 22mag X 12GA.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: For those down under - Question [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
      #124344 - 18/01/09 01:16 AM

Quote:

Southern Alps of NZ ,NOT AUSTRALIA



Alan

How about chilling out as this is only a discussion forum and not real life. No one is seriously releasing new beasts in Aust on this thread.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: For those down under - Question [Re: NitroX]
      #124345 - 18/01/09 01:18 AM

As for African plains game in Oz, I would love to see African plains game on our plains. We would have a REAL safari industry instead of a lot of vermin.

Not going to happen however.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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grandveneur
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Re: For those down under - Question [Re: 500Nitro]
      #124352 - 18/01/09 02:16 AM

Where are the tasmanian tigers and the marsupial lion's? What's happened with this species ( especially the tasmanian tiger )?

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ALAN_MCKENZIE
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Re: For those down under - Question [Re: NitroX]
      #124398 - 18/01/09 12:44 PM

John,after spending a lifetime controlling introduced vertebrate pests and noxious weeds in Australia,I believe I have a right to express my opinion.

I'm sure you have problems with diseases in your vineyard that were introduced into Australia.

As for introducing vertebrate pests into Australia who was the fucking idiot that introduced the fox into Tasmania in recent years,????????????????????????????????

Al

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949

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500Nitro
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Re: For those down under - Question [Re: grandveneur]
      #124400 - 18/01/09 01:16 PM

Quote:

Where are the tasmanian tigers and the marsupial lion's? What's happened with this species ( especially the tasmanian tiger )?




Tassie Tiger - Exterminated

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RLI
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Re: For those down under - Question [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
      #124403 - 18/01/09 02:06 PM

Quote:

John,after spending a lifetime controlling introduced vertebrate pests and noxious weeds in Australia,I believe I have a right to express my opinion.

I'm sure you have problems with diseases in your vineyard that were introduced into Australia.

As for introducing vertebrate pests into Australia who was the fucking idiot that introduced the fox into Tasmania in recent years,????????????????????????????????

Al

Some Shithead may have introduced the fox to Tasmania, but fox's are quite common around the the docks in Melbourne and could easily run on to a roll on/roll off ship but it takes a few to breed up, I do not know how the fox problem is at the moment in Tas. has any one got a update?

--------------------
"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid." — John Wayne

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grandveneur
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Re: For those down under - Question [Re: 500Nitro]
      #124409 - 18/01/09 06:58 PM

I know what's happened with the Tasmanian Tiger, and the hunter's are the reason! In all cases it's better to preserve. With foreign species a lot can go wrong! But the idea to hunt Tigers and Asian Rhino's in North Australia is not bad! Please inform me after the experiment.

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500Nitro
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Re: For those down under - Question [Re: grandveneur]
      #124410 - 18/01/09 07:08 PM

Quote:

I know what's happened with the Tasmanian Tiger, and the hunter's are the reason! In all cases it's better to preserve. With foreign species a lot can go wrong! But the idea to hunt Tigers and Asian Rhino's in North Australia is not bad! Please inform me after the experiment.




After they are all dead, certainly, but not before

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Sarg
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Re: For those down under - Question [Re: grandveneur]
      #124411 - 18/01/09 07:20 PM

Well the bounty on them helped , but most likly a virus or plague wiped the last ones out ! (the last known one in the wild was shot near a chook house , was said to be sick)
similar to the one attacking the Tassie Devil now and to a lesser extant the Koala !

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kamilaroi
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Re: For those down under - Question [Re: Sarg]
      #124414 - 18/01/09 07:56 PM

SIGH,

The Tassie tiger ISN'T (or should I say wasn't). It was a flesh eating marsupial. The name came about from the banded fur.

"Marsupial lions" were Phascacoleo spp, probably extinct by 10K BP and certainly recorded among the Cuddie Springs deposits 40K BP together with stone artefacts. (Judith Field has the definitive study, despite what media fluff self promoting fabulists like Flannery puts out there).

Frankly I'd be most wary of diprotodonts (giant wombats bigger than a hippo)among them all if they were still around. Except perhaps for the Megalania, crocodile and python megafauna that the local fellas around Brewarinna and Boobera Lagoon parts record as the Kurreas etc. The python being a continental wide story known generically as the rainbow serpent; morphing into Gunatch and Gurangaty (the giant eel: for the coastal plains people of Sydney esp Gundangara, Dharug and Dharawal).

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grandveneur
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Re: For those down under - Question [Re: kamilaroi]
      #124419 - 18/01/09 08:52 PM

Thylacoleo ( marsupial lion ) extinct in the Pleistocene!

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450_366
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Re: For those down under - Question [Re: grandveneur]
      #124420 - 18/01/09 09:54 PM

What you want is a animal that takes care of all the inported species like fox,rabbit,pig etc.
Perhaps the homo erectus?

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

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grandveneur
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Re: For those down under - Question [Re: kamilaroi]
      #124421 - 18/01/09 10:02 PM

phascacoleo: i dont know! The marsupial lions are Thylacoleonidae. The name phascaco remember Phorusrhacidae, but they are big birds ( Terror Birds ) and located in South America. Do you have more informations ?

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grandveneur
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Re: For those down under - Question [Re: 450_366]
      #124422 - 18/01/09 10:06 PM

Homo erectus horribilis, why not!

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kamilaroi
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Re: For those down under - Question [Re: grandveneur]
      #124424 - 18/01/09 10:17 PM

Sorry, I stuffed up (old fella memory)

Phascolarctos is the giant koala (the BIG BIG BIG MEGA DROP BEAR) eh Marrakai. (has frightened a few USMC at Shoalwater for sure)

It's thylacoleo of course for "lions". The big birds are Geniornis (precursors to emu= Dromaeus novaehollandiae)

As noted there are many records of locals around here in the mid Pleistocene whilst Europe was overrun with knuckledraggers. (hehhehheh)

Edited by kamilaroi (18/01/09 10:21 PM)

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grandveneur
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Reged: 21/09/08
Posts: 1350
Loc: France / Germany
Re: For those down under - Question [Re: kamilaroi]
      #124427 - 18/01/09 10:23 PM

Thank you for the informations.

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Huvius
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Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3550
Loc: Colorado
Re: For those down under - Question [Re: 500Nitro]
      #124446 - 19/01/09 02:22 AM

Quote:


Yep, it's great fun, AND does some good for Australia at the same time and I've even found that the birds (Eagles, Hawks, Cormorants, Water Rats (Native) all get a good free feed as well so wins all round !!!



Careful saying that! This is how the lead ban was pushed through in SoCal.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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Huvius
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Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3550
Loc: Colorado
Re: For those down under - Question [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
      #124447 - 19/01/09 02:37 AM

Quote:

John,after spending a lifetime controlling introduced vertebrate pests and noxious weeds in Australia,I believe I have a right to express my opinion.
As for introducing vertebrate pests into Australia who was the fucking idiot that introduced the fox into Tasmania in recent years,??



Problem here, as I see it, is that very few of the introduced species are considered game animals.
Couple this with the decline of hunting area, restrictions on firearms, and public disdain for the hunting fraternity.
I feel that the fox population in Tasmania could be wiped out within three years if there were youth hunting programs and incentives promoting such.

With a worldwide economic downturn, we may see hunting on the increase yet.
Even native species such as the Canada goose, which is way overpopulating here in Colorado, could be controlled with a few operations such as this
A little bow hunt to help out the local cemetery...



--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39720
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: For those down under - Question [Re: Huvius]
      #124527 - 19/01/09 11:41 PM

I think the bias against introduced game animals is not proven scientifically in a lot of cases.

Rabbits, goats, pigs and buffalo are often mentioned as cases which have caused problems.

But realistically have sheep and cattle damaged the natural landscape more or less than say feral goats and pigs? The answer is an obvious YES! But they are domestic stock animals and valuable to the economy. Feral game on the other hand is seen as a pest and of no or little value to the farmer. But this is a philosophical viewpoint. That GAME is less value than STOCK. The same attitude could be used anywhere in the world, with the result of NO wild game.

Then people say it is an INTRODUCED pest.

Well just say the mantra,

INTRODUCED IS BAD, MUST BE DESTROYED

NATIVE IS GOOD, MUST BE TOTALLY PROTECTED.

When you say it enough times you may believe it.

The deer species are often claimed to be "bad for the environment" (another cliche term). Yet rarely is this supported by scientific evidence.

Now if you are doubting repeat the above mantra a hundred times .....

And when there is evidence of deer having a small amount of harm to the "natural environment", if you ask the question, "What damage to kangaroos do?" there is stunned silence. Kangaroos are native and do not HARM the natural environment, you Philistine!

But perhaps if examining damage to trees, bushes and grasses (or whatever) deer are not doing much more than untold millions of skippies in this country.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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