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m4220
.300 member


Reged: 04/02/07
Posts: 233
Loc: wa
The jewel in the crown
      #121784 - 22/12/08 01:56 AM

Hi All,

I just got back from a 900 mile road trip threading my way through a snow storm to make this happen, for those who have shared in my interest in Heinrich Scherpings fine guns I will share the thread of the listing on this gun as it completes the last of the bbl configuration of his back action guns (I think). It has lots of pic's of this wonderful firearm and an undocumented story. I haven't had time to photo yet or cast the chambers to determine the calibre but do know they were mistaken about it being a 9.3. Preliminary check shows to be more like a .500 Express. Here is the link.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=116560014

m4220

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: The jewel in the crown [Re: m4220]
      #121786 - 22/12/08 02:06 AM



Top stuff, well done on the pick up.

Enjoy

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Anonymous
Unregistered




Re: The jewel in the crown [Re: m4220]
      #121792 - 22/12/08 03:02 AM

Superb find, congratulations.

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gatsby
.375 member


Reged: 05/09/05
Posts: 862
Loc: inland valley CA USA
Re: The jewel in the crown [Re: m4220]
      #121797 - 22/12/08 03:50 AM

It really is a beautiful gun. Personally I would hope that it did not belong to one of the Nazi elite, bad karma, but it probably would add value to the gun for some. I love the engraving.

--------------------
"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar



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m4220
.300 member


Reged: 04/02/07
Posts: 233
Loc: wa
Re: The jewel in the crown [Re: gatsby]
      #121803 - 22/12/08 04:47 AM

This gun is about the superb craftsmanship of it's Maker (Heinrich Scherping of Hannover). I don't want this to be thought of politicly as war has it's fates! About Karma, Goering was an avid sportsman just made bad desisions politicly that in the end cost him his life after the world tried him for crimes against humanity that promped him to take his own life before being hung like a common criminal. This rifle was built by a Master & one of the best in my opinion and I wanted to share it's beauty with the group.

m4220

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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: The jewel in the crown [Re: m4220]
      #121804 - 22/12/08 04:52 AM

Nice rifle.

I don't buy the story though.
If you get it, I look forward to hearing about the chamber casts and to see if you shoot it.







--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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gatsby
.375 member


Reged: 05/09/05
Posts: 862
Loc: inland valley CA USA
Re: The jewel in the crown [Re: tinker]
      #121805 - 22/12/08 05:00 AM

Quote:

Nice rifle.

I don't buy the story though.








--Tinker



Did we have troops in Germany in 1943, before D-Day?

--------------------
"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar



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SteveG
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Reged: 18/11/08
Posts: 6
Loc: Washington, USA
Re: The jewel in the crown [Re: gatsby]
      #121806 - 22/12/08 05:28 AM

Outstanding. Looking forward to seeing it.

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Huvius
.416 member


Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3537
Loc: Colorado
Re: The jewel in the crown [Re: SteveG]
      #121812 - 22/12/08 06:40 AM

The story is a little thin...
I think a lot of returning soldiers built up stories like this to justify looting private German properties.
I know there has been little sympathy for the WW2 era Germans but I would prefer a gun that was purchased or bartered for by one of our military personnel. Swiping a gun from a lodge mantel doesn't sound much like obtaining a "war trophy" in the classic sense. A Mauser abandoned or surrendered, sure, but a sporting gun from a lodge? Pity...

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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m4220
.300 member


Reged: 04/02/07
Posts: 233
Loc: wa
Re: The jewel in the crown [Re: Huvius]
      #121829 - 22/12/08 07:25 AM

Please Guy's let's not put to much emphasis on the story, That was the sellers story & I discounted the story with the picture of the gun Goering holding being a boxlock and this gun being a back action! He didn't even know the calibre describing it as being a 9.3 and my preliminary investigation has been narrowed down to 3 calibres so far.
500/450 #2 Musket Black Powder
11.43 x 60R Martini
11.43 x 60R Romanian Peabody

.665 Rim dia.
.070 Rim thickness
.580 Base dia.
2.400 long
.455 Bore

These are taken with calipers as I haven't had the chance to chamber cast for exact measurements yet
The story connecting it to Goering is interesting in the sense that my Scherping .500 Express D/R also had a Goering story but I shrugged these off as sellers stories being as neither had documentation confirming the claims. I think alot of these stories were made up to try and capitalise on the value. I really wish this one could talk!

m4220

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dale
.333 member


Reged: 28/02/06
Posts: 341
Loc: logan W.V.
Re: The jewel in the crown [Re: m4220]
      #122164 - 24/12/08 08:23 PM

M4220,

Congratulations! Ol man fate had no choice but to put this rifle in your collection. It's one beautiful rifle & I'm glad you made the trip after it. Good luck on the ammo for it. Be more than happy to help when you decide to put some pictures in the archive. :^) We like close ups and details :^)

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CptCurlAdministrator
.450 member


Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5275
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: The jewel in the crown [Re: dale]
      #122177 - 24/12/08 10:19 PM

Congratulations! Now you should do proper photographs and post to the DRArchive forum.

Thanks for sharing your experience.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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m4220
.300 member


Reged: 04/02/07
Posts: 233
Loc: wa
Re: The jewel in the crown [Re: CptCurl]
      #122224 - 25/12/08 02:58 AM

Thanks Curl,

This all started about 20 years ago with the purchase of a 8x60S Mauser at a local gun show, after purchasing that gun and admiring the wonderful craftsmanship that went into this rifle I went on a quest for info on it's maker "Heinrich Scherping Hof-Buchsenmacher Hannover". Very little was known about him so I joined the German Gun Collectors Assn. and asked for their help. Over the years more guns surfaced and others would contact the GGCA seeking info & Deitrich & I would share what little info we had been able to gather. Since that first Mauser I have veiwed over 50 of his fine guns, I decided to try to put together a small collection to represent his style and variety as I have yet to see 2 guns alike. Here is a list of the collection at present time.
12.7x65R (.500 Express) SxS D/R Back action locks
11.15x60R (43 Mauser) SXS D/R Back action locks
11.43x59R (45 Peabody-Martini) O/U D/R back action locks
12 Gauge SxS Back action locks
16x16x9.3x72R Drilling Back action locks
12Ga x 10.25 x 60R Cape gun Back action locks
16x16x9.3x72R Drilling Hammerless Sidelock
16x16 SxS Scalloped Boxlock
8x60S Mauser
8x57JS Mauser
8x57JS Mauser
30 GOV'T 06 Mauser
22 Target pistol (Falling Block)
Over the holidays I hope to do a photo shoot of the collection and try to put together a small portfolio of the collection to show at the GGCA during the Beinfeld show in Las Vegas, if the photo shoot gets done I will also try to enlist some help to put here as well for all the member to become aqquainted with this Masters fine craftsmanship. All the guns are in the as puchased condition without restoration so some show the scars of time. Wish they could talk!!

Happy Holidays
M4220

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jc5
.300 member


Reged: 10/10/07
Posts: 162
Loc: West Coast, USA
Re: The jewel in the crown [Re: m4220]
      #127353 - 17/02/09 12:31 PM

Congrats!

Is there a disc on the underside of the buttstock that might have Goering's family crest on it? I don't collect German or WWII stuff myself, but I'd like to check this against another rifle that a friend has that is supposedly from the same source.

--------------------
Researching Lee Speeds and all commercial Lee Enfields. If you have data to share or questions, please send me a PM.

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m4220
.300 member


Reged: 04/02/07
Posts: 233
Loc: wa
Re: The jewel in the crown [Re: jc5]
      #127364 - 17/02/09 02:37 PM

Hi JC5,

The O/U rifle has no silver oval but the .500 sxs that I have that was storied to have been brought back from the war by a US Army surgeon (William Eby) who performed the post mortam autopsy on Goering after his death, and this gun was supposed to have come from his collection. It does have a
silver oval on the forend that reads as translated for me.

that dedication on your gun reads to me:
Wilhelm Haase s/l. Bruder Gustav
Wilhelm Haase s(einem) l(ieben) Bruder Gustav
Wilhelm Haase to his beloved brother Gustav

I also have several other Scherping guns that have Monograms or family crests in the silver ovals or inlaid in the trigger gaurds.
If you can get pictures, PM me and I will provide my e-mail and you can forward them to me & I will compare against my other guns.

m4220

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m4220
.300 member


Reged: 04/02/07
Posts: 233
Loc: wa
Re: The jewel in the crown [Re: m4220]
      #128513 - 02/03/09 12:27 PM

Update:
I got my 1st set of reloading die's as ch-4d had them in stock. After another chamber casting and forwarding the chamber cast to Dave we determined this gun to be a .500/.450 #2 Musket when I had originally suspected it to be a 11.43 x59R (Peabody-Martini) or 500/450 #2 Musket. I loaded 8 cartridges today getting ready to find out how it regulates & what it likes. 8 rounds with a .458 dia. 410 grn FN lead bullet with SPG lube & overpowder wad, (4) with 85 grns 2F Goex & (4) with 90 grns of Swiss 1 1/2F. My other 2 Scherping's were chamber cast at the same time & sent to Dave but those dies will have to be custom made, .500 2 5/8 Express & 10.25 x 60R so it will be several months before I get those back. I have cobble formed several rounds for each to start working on the loads ahead of time & hope to get them close. All I need now is some time to get the chrony set
up along with a couple fresh targets & will start to find which loading they each need, I'll bet these guns are almost as excited as I am.

m4220

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