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AKA
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Reged: 21/02/04
Posts: 17
Loc: california
577..24 vs 26 inch
      #121609 - 20/12/08 09:36 AM




I will be ordering a 577 nitro next week . I want the double to come in at 11-12 pounds. Ive been told that this can be done by shortening the barrel by one inch(from 26-25 inch). My question to you pros? is there a reason not to go to 24 inches? I'm new to doubles. I understand the rifle will be regulated to 50 yards anyway. What sizes barrels do you all have ..thanks steve

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Bramble
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Re: 577..24 vs 26 inch [Re: AKA]
      #121620 - 20/12/08 11:00 AM

From whom are you ordering the rifle if I may enquire?

And what is their view on a 11lb .577 ?

Regards

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mickey
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Re: 577..24 vs 26 inch [Re: AKA]
      #121637 - 20/12/08 01:40 PM

I prefer the 24" barrel in a .577. It seems more balanced that way and, to me, that is more important than weight.

What does the maker think and do you have any reason to beleive he knows what he is talking about when it comes to fit and balance?

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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grandveneur
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Re: 577..24 vs 26 inch [Re: AKA]
      #121721 - 21/12/08 07:51 AM

Better 26" (or more!) because the 577NE is a big cartridge today loaded and reloaded like a magnum cartridge with low burning powder. But from a another point of view, why not 24", dependent of the design and the balance of your rifle. 11 Ibs is, may be, a little bit light for a double 577NE. I know the problem (500 Jeffery) ! When you dont are recoil shy, no problem!

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AKA
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Re: 577..24 vs 26 inch [Re: Bramble]
      #121730 - 21/12/08 09:44 AM

Quote:

From whom are you ordering the rifle if I may enquire?

And what is their view on a 11lb .577 ?

Regards



I'm getting a Holland and Holland..It seems everyone on this forum prefers the 24 inch barrels.
They tried to keep me at 14-15 pounds but they are willing to build the rifle at 11-12. I just need to get the good heavy duty wood for the stock..

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AKA
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Re: 577..24 vs 26 inch [Re: grandveneur]
      #121731 - 21/12/08 09:46 AM

Quote:

Better 26" (or more!) because the 577NE is a big cartridge today loaded and reloaded like a magnum cartridge with low burning powder. But from a another point of view, why not 24", dependent of the design and the balance of your rifle. 11 Ibs is, may be, a little bit light for a double 577NE. I know the problem (500 Jeffery) ! When you dont are recoil shy, no problem!



thanks for your input

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new_guy
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Re: 577..24 vs 26 inch [Re: AKA]
      #121733 - 21/12/08 10:03 AM

Steve - congratulation on the Holland. I know you've been after one for a while, and I'm glad to see you so near the finish line. As we've discussed, I have to concur with the others here that an 11-lb 577 is going to be a rough ride. Either would make it a tough one to sell, but 12 is better than 11 - if that's still your ceiling.

I would just hate to see you spend that much and not be happy with the end result.

--------------------
www.heymUSA.com

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mickey
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Re: 577..24 vs 26 inch [Re: new_guy]
      #121734 - 21/12/08 10:15 AM

I should point out I had a 10.5 lb 577 Thys. It balanced perfectly but at that it was a handful. I would have preferred it to be about 13 pounds like my Jeffery.

I sold it.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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Bramble
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Re: 577..24 vs 26 inch [Re: mickey]
      #121735 - 21/12/08 11:19 AM

With the very greatest of respect.
You post that this is your first double rifle. You go to one of the best companies in the world that has been building double rifles for 150 years, and they advise you to keep it at 14-15 lbs.
Why ignore them?

Now H+H are a bespoke rifle maker and they will happily take the £ 100,000.00 or so that it is going to cost and build it at 11lbs, but it will be a monster. It will be no fun whatsoever to shoot and its resale value will be dramitically reduced.

IMHO before you decide to lay out this sort of money try and find a comparable rifle, if not a double, a bolt, in a cartridge with similar recoil energy verses weight ( a light 505 gibbs, 460 WBY, a 458 lott in a 9 lb gun without a break spring to mind. You can calculate the same free recoil energy with "point blank" software) and fire them 6 times in sucession at the range. If you still want the 11lb 577 then go ahead.

It is not a macho question of being recoil shy, it is the practicality, it will slap you so badly that the quick 2nd shot for which we shoot doubles will be next to impossible.

Regards

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9.3x57
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Re: 577..24 vs 26 inch [Re: Bramble]
      #121737 - 21/12/08 12:12 PM

Quote:

It is not a macho question of being recoil shy, it is the practicality, it will slap you so badly that the quick 2nd shot for which we shoot doubles will be next to impossible.



I do not own any of these biguns, but this reasoning is so sound that I would not ignore it.

I had a 4 lb 12 bore once. It was a 19 inch bbl'd H&R singleshot and though I quit boxing years ago occaisionally I felt like feeling something from the good ole days {getting beatup} so I'd shoo the horses out of the front pasture and take it out on the front yard and run a few rounds of 3-inch mag 00 thru it at chunks of firewood and the like.

I'm not a big guy, but I assure you that this thing would have made Mike Tyson consider the priesthood and had it been a double and I was shooting it, the left barrel could have been left unloaded and probably reloaded faster with a round from the back pocket of my jeans than I could have gotten the spare trigger yanked.

Those that know tell me a .577 is a real He-Man's gun and might very well make my 12 bore lightweight feel like a peck on the cheek from Gramma.

Making a "fightin' gun" fit for a pussy isn't a copout, it's good common sense.

My vote would go for a heavier {though not necessarily LONGER-barreled} gun. I like stubby guns.

Go ahead and make it short if you like, but make it heavy, too.

Just $.02 from a guy who knows enough to get out of the way of a mean bull or a guy bigger than me, but not much more...



--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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450_366
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Re: 577..24 vs 26 inch [Re: AKA]
      #121760 - 21/12/08 06:10 PM

Hi!

I must say i envy you, to order a london best in 577NE is a dream come thru. I would make sure that i wouldnt be dissapointed.
Is it a full nitro gun? with 750gr loads? Not being an expert but thats beond my limits thats for sure, the gun being a about a kilo heavyer then a scoped 458 bolt it would give a unpleasent wake up.
The advice to borrow ones "mountain" 505 or 458lot seems like a good ide, if 10 rounds thru it doesent bother you, go for it. And it would be fun lenting it someone that thinks doubles are without recoil.

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

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grandveneur
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Re: 577..24 vs 26 inch [Re: AKA]
      #121773 - 21/12/08 11:05 PM

I buy a rifle because i like it! Why not a double 577NE of 11 Ibs and a barrel of 24"? But dont forget the 577NE is a specialized cartridge for elefant. It is not a versatile rifle and not the first choice for big game hunting. I dont know your experience with big bore rifles and big game hunting. Today the hunting condition are different and oftens you have to shot at medium range (100/200 yards) on buffalos and sometimes in the evening (and the night!!!) on elefant(crop raiders for exemple in gona rhezou ). That is not possible with a double.But a double is a very nice rifle !

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jaz
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Re: 577..24 vs 26 inch [Re: grandveneur]
      #121779 - 22/12/08 01:04 AM

I agree with Bramble..... and the recoil will be brutal. I assume you will only try 90 grains and not 100.
JZ

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AKA
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Re: 577..24 vs 26 inch [Re: grandveneur]
      #121808 - 22/12/08 05:45 AM

Great idea..yesterday I ran 20 rounds through my unbraked 460 weatherby with full powerhouse loads. I think I have run about 2500 rounds so far. recoil isn't my issue..I'm just trying to figure out if a reduced weight would make this rifle any less stronger? I'm sure the folks at H&H would make a nicely balanced rifle no matter what the specs. However, Someone did bring up a good point that I didnt think about it. Reduced barrel (2 inch)length would reduce the speed by 50 fps. And for that point I will now go with the 26 inch but that will then bring in a weight of 13-14 pounds which will be ok..

thanks again guys for your points of view..

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Der_Jaeger
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Re: 577..24 vs 26 inch [Re: AKA]
      #121827 - 22/12/08 07:23 AM


AKA,

Congratulations on moving forward with such a monumental and momentous purchase. I wish I were doing the same right now If it was me in that position, though, I would not have overlooked something as obvious as muzzle velocity when considering the list of bespoke items to which I was to have a maker configure my rifle.

This rifle will be an awesome addition but I wonder how in the world you can stand to wait that long?!!!!

--------------------


Edited by Der_Jaeger (22/12/08 07:25 AM)

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9.3x57
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Re: 577..24 vs 26 inch [Re: AKA]
      #121831 - 22/12/08 07:32 AM

Quote:

Great idea..yesterday I ran 20 rounds through my unbraked 460 weatherby with full powerhouse loads.



Along those lines, you fellows who know...

How would you compare the felt recoil of an unbraked .460 vs a .577?

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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AKA
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Reged: 21/02/04
Posts: 17
Loc: california
Re: 577..24 vs 26 inch [Re: Der_Jaeger]
      #121834 - 22/12/08 07:42 AM

Quote:


AKA,

Congratulations on moving forward with such a monumental and momentous purchase. I wish I were doing the same right now If it was me in that position, though, I would not have overlooked something as obvious as muzzle velocity when considering the list of bespoke items to which I was to have a maker configure my rifle.

This rifle will be an awesome addition but I wonder how in the world you can stand to wait that long?!!!!



Der_Jaeger..but you see I didn't over look it..that's why I came here so I wouldn't over look these items when ordering..

thanks

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mickey
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Re: 577..24 vs 26 inch [Re: 9.3x57]
      #121836 - 22/12/08 07:43 AM

9.3

The 460 is sharper but not as much recoil. Figure mid 90's for the 460 and 110-120 for the 577 at 10.5 pounds.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

Edited by mickey (22/12/08 07:44 AM)

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Der_Jaeger
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Re: 577..24 vs 26 inch [Re: mickey]
      #121839 - 22/12/08 07:51 AM

AKA,

I thought you said in the post just prior to mine, that it was a point (barrel length & velocity) you didn't think about until someone brought it up. Sorry if I misunderstood your comment. Regardless, I envy your position It's a great rifle in either length.

--------------------


Edited by Der_Jaeger (22/12/08 07:53 AM)

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AKA
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Reged: 21/02/04
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Loc: california
Re: 577..24 vs 26 inch [Re: Der_Jaeger]
      #121859 - 22/12/08 10:28 AM

Der_Jaeger ..you were right in your assumption..I did overlook the 2 inches as it relates to FPs..Thats why i posted my questions in this forum..So i can have all the info i need to make a sound decision..I'm new to doubles and the slower velocities of their bullets.I posed my questions and you guys gave me the info that I needed..But here is some on the conflicting info out on the net

http://www.new-kynoch.apt-sites.com/577%20NE.htm

kynoch says the their ammo out of a 28 barrel is 2050 while

http://www.westleyrichards.com/gun/ammo_metal.php

while westley richards says its 2050 out of a 24 inch barrel.

This is why i need to run this stuff by you guys

thanks

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AKA
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Reged: 21/02/04
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Loc: california
Re: 577..24 vs 26 inch [Re: mickey]
      #121861 - 22/12/08 10:31 AM

mickey..how does the recoil differ from a 10 pound 460 to a 12-13- pound 577?

thanks

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mickey
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Re: 577..24 vs 26 inch [Re: AKA]
      #121864 - 22/12/08 10:37 AM

Are you planning to handload or buy your ammo? The reason I ask is because if you are planning to reload, set your load and regulate the rifle to that. It is much easier than trying to match regulation to a commercial ammo.

The difference is simply in who loads the ammo and what they are trying to accomplish. There are many loads here for a 577 3" that are at 2050 from a 24" barrel.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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AKA
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Re: 577..24 vs 26 inch [Re: mickey]
      #121873 - 22/12/08 11:28 AM

mickey..A light just went off..With my 460.and 378... I will reload all year long until I go to Africa. 2 weeks before I go I start using factory ammo and readjust my scope settings..I don't have that luxury with doubles..I was planning on using superior ammo to provide my African rounds and then reload for my weekly shooting sessions.I'm a RSO at out local range so I shoot once a week..Should I just send to H&H a specific load (superior or kynoch)and fine tune to through reloading?..thanks for your help..

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Bramble
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Re: 577..24 vs 26 inch [Re: AKA]
      #121876 - 22/12/08 11:40 AM

2550 fps 500 Gn WhbY 10lb gun 108.27flbs @ 26.41 fps

2100 fps 750 Gn .577 NE 12 lb gun 140.12 @ 27.42 fps

2100 fps 750 Gn .577 NE 11 158.86 @ 29.92 fps


To duplicate the recoil of the .577 in an 11 lb gun you would have to fire the .460 WbY in a gun weighing only 7 lbs

Or to duplicar the recoil of a 12 lb .577 you need to use a 7Lb 10 oz .460 WbY

Enjoy


Regards

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mickey
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Re: 577..24 vs 26 inch [Re: Bramble]
      #121890 - 22/12/08 02:23 PM

AKA

I trust my handloads over any factory ammo. I take more care and much more concerned for detail.

If you want to have your rifle regulated for a specific round you can reload for than just tell Holland what brass, what primer, what bullet and what powder.

For what you are paying they can load to your specs in England.

Have I said I envy you the ability to buy the exact rifle you want. Congratulations. The new Doubles I Have been able to order for myself have been dictated by finance and what is available in my price range.

I have been lucky to know Phillipe Grifnee and have had some fine engraving though.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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