Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact
NitroExpress.com: Smokeless for black?

View recent messages : 24 hours | 48 hours | 7 days | 14 days | 30 days | 60 days | More Smilies


*** Enjoy NitroExpress.com? Participate and join in. ***

Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Muzzleloaders & Blackpowder

Pages: 1
Tatume
.400 member


Reged: 09/06/07
Posts: 1091
Loc: Gloucester, Va USA
Smokeless for black?
      #121227 - 15/12/08 07:03 AM

Hello Folks,

Does anyone here know the logic behind the prohibition on using smokeless powder in black-powder muzzleloaders? We hear it all the time, but nobody ever really says why. If smokeless powder can be substituted for black in black powder cartridge arms, including those from the 19th century, why can’t the same be done with black powder muzzleloaders?

I suspect I know the answer to my own question. It probably has nothing to do with the powder per se, but is a precaution against a person loading it in ignorance. Sooner or later, someone will pick up his powder measure and scoop up 100 gr by volume of whatever powder is at hand, and blow up a gun.

This summer an interesting project might be to obtain an inexpensive side-lock rifle, build a plywood fixture to hold it within a plywood box, with a remote firing device (a string), and develop some loads.

Before anybody asks me why I would do such a hare-brained thing, the answer is, because I want to know. But if any of you already know, please tell me.

Take care, Tom


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
beleg2
.375 member


Reged: 15/08/07
Posts: 591
Loc: Bahía Blanca - Argentina
Re: Smokeless for black? [Re: Tatume]
      #121240 - 15/12/08 10:27 AM

From my experience smokelss can be used in a muzzleloader but not in the way they sell it.
I have used nitrocelulose made into a solid charge by a friend. You can look at my thread:

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat....true#Post101754

IIRC IMR is going to produce a smokeless solid charge in 2009, White Hots is the name.

Hope this helps.
Martin


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Bramble
.375 member


Reged: 29/07/06
Posts: 950
Loc: England
Re: Smokeless for black? [Re: beleg2]
      #121244 - 15/12/08 11:03 AM

I have used "Trail Boss" most sucessfully in my ML colt SAA copy. (we cant have cartridge pistols as you know) I used a cylinder full underneath a 125 GN SWC and the accuracy was scary. I am not the best pistol shot but we have an ex olympics pistol shot at the club. He put six offhand @ 25 yards into a 2" group.. It burnt great was mild in recoil and I would like to experiment a lot more with it but have not the time. I think that it could be a great powder for all sorts of NFB applications.




Regards


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Dphariss
.300 member


Reged: 18/04/06
Posts: 130
Loc: Montana
Re: Smokeless for black? [Re: Tatume]
      #121261 - 15/12/08 02:52 PM

Quote:

Hello Folks,

Does anyone here know the logic behind the prohibition on using smokeless powder in black-powder muzzleloaders? We hear it all the time, but nobody ever really says why. If smokeless powder can be substituted for black in black powder cartridge arms, including those from the 19th century, why can’t the same be done with black powder muzzleloaders?

I suspect I know the answer to my own question. It probably has nothing to do with the powder per se, but is a precaution against a person loading it in ignorance. Sooner or later, someone will pick up his powder measure and scoop up 100 gr by volume of whatever powder is at hand, and blow up a gun.

This summer an interesting project might be to obtain an inexpensive side-lock rifle, build a plywood fixture to hold it within a plywood box, with a remote firing device (a string), and develop some loads.

Before anybody asks me why I would do such a hare-brained thing, the answer is, because I want to know. But if any of you already know, please tell me.

Take care, Tom




For one thing MLs are not breech loaders.
Smokeless is notoriously hard to light compared to BP.
Poor ignition of the charge can turn a firearm into a bomb. Don't matter if its in a cartridge or not. I would never attempt to ignite smokeless with a conventional percussion nipple and cap, musket or otherwise.
Also note that smokeless powder charges used in BPCRs generally use a fraction of the charge weight of the BP charge.
Reduced charges of smokeless blow up at least as many guns as overloads and in the world of SA colts and other firearms chambered for BP cartridges probably more.
You can play around with smokeless if you want but I recommend something more substantial than plywood for containment.

It is impossible to control other people's ignorance. Trying to do so is a fools errand. Thus worrying about some one using smokeless in a ML is simply a waste of your time. They would likely blow the gun up with ANY charge of smokeless based on the above explanations so how large the measure with the gun might be is simply irrelevant.
Dan


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Bramble
.375 member


Reged: 29/07/06
Posts: 950
Loc: England
Re: Smokeless for black? [Re: Dphariss]
      #121274 - 15/12/08 08:08 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Hello Folks,

Does anyone here know the logic behind the prohibition on using smokeless powder in black-powder muzzleloaders? We hear it all the time, but nobody ever really says why. If smokeless powder can be substituted for black in black powder cartridge arms, including those from the 19th century, why can’t the same be done with black powder muzzleloaders?

I suspect I know the answer to my own question. It probably has nothing to do with the powder per se, but is a precaution against a person loading it in ignorance. Sooner or later, someone will pick up his powder measure and scoop up 100 gr by volume of whatever powder is at hand, and blow up a gun.

This summer an interesting project might be to obtain an inexpensive side-lock rifle, build a plywood fixture to hold it within a plywood box, with a remote firing device (a string), and develop some loads.

Before anybody asks me why I would do such a hare-brained thing, the answer is, because I want to know. But if any of you already know, please tell me.

Take care, Tom




For one thing MLs are not breech loaders.
Smokeless is notoriously hard to light compared to BP.
Poor ignition of the charge can turn a firearm into a bomb. Don't matter if its in a cartridge or not. I would never attempt to ignite smokeless with a conventional percussion nipple and cap, musket or otherwise.
Also note that smokeless powder charges used in BPCRs generally use a fraction of the charge weight of the BP charge.
Reduced charges of smokeless blow up at least as many guns as overloads and in the world of SA colts and other firearms chambered for BP cartridges probably more.
You can play around with smokeless if you want but I recommend something more substantial than plywood for containment.

It is impossible to control other people's ignorance. Trying to do so is a fools errand. Thus worrying about some one using smokeless in a ML is simply a waste of your time. They would likely blow the gun up with ANY charge of smokeless based on the above explanations so how large the measure with the gun might be is simply irrelevant.
Dan




I Think that the "other peoples ignorance" comment may be a little harsh old chap.
The revolver above was built specifically for the task. The cylinder is 4140 and the wall thickness exceeds that of a 454 casuall by a substantial margin. The internal volume is carfully calculated to give a 100% load within the min/max range of any 38 loading with a 125 grain head. You can and I have, fired it with a cylinder full of bullseye.
To address your remark about ignition, you will see that a conventional cap is not used.
The problem that SASS has with reduced loads in 45 cases can proberbly be attributed to very light loads of fast powders in large cases and some form of flash over or stalled ignition/re-ignition. You are quite correct, it is a problem and a bit of a mystery.
Trail boss was developed for NFB applications,Some nitro powders have a kinder pressure curve than black powder. the origional poster has been around for some time and appears to be a sensible chap. With some care then, there is no reason that an experiment should not be undertaken.

Regards


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylSModerator
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26992
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Smokeless for black? [Re: Bramble]
      #121309 - 16/12/08 05:44 AM

Dan's post addresses the original post, Bramble - not your 'converted' ctg. gun.
It is obvious the gun you are using & have 'built' and the manner it's being used is quite safe. I find it an interesting 'dodge' to the regulations - quite inventive of you.
Unfortunately, someone may now try Trail Boss in his cap 'n ball gun.

I've used Trail Boss in my .45/60 Sharps with excellent results at 100 meters off the bags. 15gr. fills the case to the base of a 390gr. bullets seated out 2 bands. It is indeed a bulky, light-weight powder and in pistol cases is loaded very close to, if not bulk for bulk. I would NEVER attempt to use it in a muzzlelaoding rifle or pistol. While the powder is light, in a rifle case such as noted above, it is developing over 25,000PSI. The load is light feeling in the 12 pound rifle, the report is light and the velocity is low, but for the speed arrived at ie: 1,200fps, the pressure is very HIGH - way too high for a muzzleloading rifle's system.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Edited by Daryl_S (16/12/08 08:58 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Dphariss
.300 member


Reged: 18/04/06
Posts: 130
Loc: Montana
Re: Smokeless for black? [Re: Bramble]
      #121343 - 16/12/08 04:20 PM

Quote:



I Think that the "other peoples ignorance" comment may be a little harsh old chap.
The revolver above was built specifically for the task. The cylinder is 4140 and the wall thickness exceeds that of a 454 casuall by a substantial margin. The internal volume is carfully calculated to give a 100% load within the min/max range of any 38 loading with a 125 grain head. You can and I have, fired it with a cylinder full of bullseye.
To address your remark about ignition, you will see that a conventional cap is not used.
The problem that SASS has with reduced loads in 45 cases can proberbly be attributed to very light loads of fast powders in large cases and some form of flash over or stalled ignition/re-ignition. You are quite correct, it is a problem and a bit of a mystery.
Trail boss was developed for NFB applications,Some nitro powders have a kinder pressure curve than black powder. the origional poster has been around for some time and appears to be a sensible chap. With some care then, there is no reason that an experiment should not be undertaken.

Regards




There are many variables.
The curve is not the problem in most cases. The problem is over pressure or excessively fast pressure rise. Over pressure is serious but generally not catastrophic unless in a weak action like a the toggle link Winchester design or a vintage barrel/cylinder.
I know that it is virtually impossible to blow a 45-3 1/4" American made Sharps copy with 500 gr jacketed bullets and all the IMR 4198 that will fit. It will not even stick the cases according to the tester.
I also know that a reduced charge, 50 grains or so, of 3031 is very dangerous with a lead bullet in this cartridge (hang fires and smoke from the breech before the powder finally fully lights) and will blow a 50 3 1/4" to fragments. My warnings did not "take" and he tried 3031 anyway and *really* broke the rifle. I could not "control" his ignorance. Had he used 90-100 grains he and the rifle would have likely been unhurt, well the gun anyway. He might have learned a lesson in recoil.
I know that, at least in the old Winchester I had, 7gr of Unique in a 38-40 produces large variations in velocity. The warning sign of an impending "event". Magnum primers cured this.
I know that 6.5 gr of Red Dot is OK with a 250 gr in 45 Colt but using a 200 gr will likely blow up the revolver. 13 grains will not stick a case so it was not a double load.

I am confidant that a full case of Bullseye will not burst a 357 mag revolver, at least a good quality one, but a light load of +- 3 gr. will break it. Its been proven repeatedly.
This reduced charge "phenomenon" is not limited to small arms but will blow up field pieces as well.

A friend and the lab owner once fired a box of *factory* 38 Specials through a pressure gun. By tipping the cartridges at different angles to "index" the powder before loading they achieved pressures from 16000 (normal) to 32000 (proof level or more) all from the same box of ammo.

This and some blown guns I have examined makes me very uneasy about reduced loads of smokeless. I am also very uneasy about smokeless is traditional MLs due to soft ignition and usually POOR BARREL STEEL. Percussion revolvers have a better ignition path and might be safer.

Your cylinder adaption gets around one worry, poor ignition and is a elegant work around. Setting it up to hold just the proper charge is also a plus.

I have a friend who found a relic on his ranch years ago. Someone had apparently pulled apart some revolver ammo to load a 1858 Remington. He found the gun parts, most of them anyway and searching produced evidence of the ammo being disassembled. This was done long before he found it. But a vintage Remington is not in the same class as a modern reproduction *if* they use suitable steels.

Dan


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Paul
.400 member


Reged: 28/08/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Re: Smokeless for black? [Re: Dphariss]
      #121349 - 16/12/08 06:25 PM


To get back to the original question: could it be that a lot of muzzleloaders were charged with thumb-rule methods like 'what fits into the palm of your hand'? Obviously, smokeless powder does not work under those rules.

- Paul


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylSModerator
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26992
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Smokeless for black? [Re: Paul]
      #121352 - 16/12/08 11:49 PM

Paul - Not sure where the cover-the-BALL in the palm of the hand with powder deal came from - maybe the back woods of Tennesee when he lost the measure that came with his rifle - or - perhaps before the advent of sticken, adjustable powder measures - but - most reading I've done lists powder charges for guns as in grains or drams measure - back to around early 1800's.
Today we use adjustable, stricken measures, or powder scales to 'set' the length of a horn or bone measure to hold the correct about of powder that shoots the best in that gun. Those who know better, know you cannot arbitrarily choose a powder charge and expect the rifle to shoot it's best with that charge - you have to develope the load that shoots best by trying different different patch thickness, different lubes and different powder charges, even different ball diameters as well as different granulations of black powder to find 'the best load' for that rifle, smoothbore, or handgun. I shoot all three with either shot or ball used in the smoothbores. They all require the similar load development. Even different lubes will give different results. Change one ingredient and accuracy changes - same with modern rifles - generally.

As to a handful of powder - that possibly comes from a story by Selous when his 'Kaffer' loaded his 4 bore Dutch smoothbore by dipping his little hand into a 'bag' of powder and dumping in a handful - made a mistake once and put in 2 handsful - Selous paid for that with multiple wounds. Do not try that with a muzzleloading rifle. My mitt probably holds about a 1/4 pound - 1,750gr. - is that a good load - don't think so? We shoot 1/4 pound in a 4 pound cannon. The ball weighs 4 pounds - about a 2 1/2" bore. How 'cupped' do you make your hand?

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Tatume
.400 member


Reged: 09/06/07
Posts: 1091
Loc: Gloucester, Va USA
Re: Smokeless for black? [Re: DarylS]
      #121361 - 17/12/08 12:39 AM

Well folks, if I hadn't made up my mind to pursue this experiment, I now feel compelled to procede.

Take care, Tom


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Dphariss
.300 member


Reged: 18/04/06
Posts: 130
Loc: Montana
Re: Smokeless for black? [Re: Tatume]
      #121449 - 18/12/08 12:31 PM

Just not on a public range.

Dan


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
nobade
.224 member


Reged: 01/12/08
Posts: 3
Loc: Albuquerque, NM
Re: Smokeless for black? [Re: Dphariss]
      #122579 - 30/12/08 12:05 AM

I tried some Trail Boss in my Ruger Old Army. After reading the artical in the Double Gun Journal that said around 70% volume would equal BP pressures, I started there and worked up. Every shot was a hangfire. Percussion caps don't work to light off smokeless powder. It's a waste of time, don't do it. BTW, I didn't see any excessive pressure signs. Caps looked normal, hammer didn't self cock (like it will with a load of FFFFg) Now that converted centerfire revolver using pistol primers, that would be the way to go.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
bonanza
.400 member


Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: Smokeless for black? [Re: beleg2]
      #122584 - 30/12/08 12:44 AM

http://www.imrpowder.com/white-hots.html

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylSModerator
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26992
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Smokeless for black? [Re: bonanza]
      #122605 - 30/12/08 04:33 AM

Bonanza - note the shotgun primer requirement. Obviously designed for the in-line abominations.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
bonanza
.400 member


Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: Smokeless for black? [Re: DarylS]
      #122619 - 30/12/08 08:50 AM

Yep - abominations.

If someone came up with a classy period inline, maybe.

777 works well in my Pedersoli 12 bore. I'll stick with it.

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
beleg2
.375 member


Reged: 15/08/07
Posts: 591
Loc: Bahía Blanca - Argentina
Re: Smokeless for black? [Re: bonanza]
      #122622 - 30/12/08 10:02 AM

Those white shots looks like our Bonazza solid charges.
http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat....true#Post101754

Martin


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Huvius
.416 member


Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3555
Loc: Colorado
Re: Smokeless for black? [Re: bonanza]
      #122659 - 31/12/08 02:10 AM

Quote:

Yep - abominations.

If someone came up with a classy period inline, maybe.




As discussed in an older thread, a lot of options for "classyness":

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=92954&an=0&page=2#Post92954

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Dphariss
.300 member


Reged: 18/04/06
Posts: 130
Loc: Montana
Re: Smokeless for black? [Re: nobade]
      #122851 - 02/01/09 04:22 PM

Quote:

I tried some Trail Boss in my Ruger Old Army. After reading the artical in the Double Gun Journal that said around 70% volume would equal BP pressures, I started there and worked up. Every shot was a hangfire. Percussion caps don't work to light off smokeless powder. It's a waste of time, don't do it. BTW, I didn't see any excessive pressure signs. Caps looked normal, hammer didn't self cock (like it will with a load of FFFFg) Now that converted centerfire revolver using pistol primers, that would be the way to go.




You are luckier that you know. Improper ignition of smokeless powder is a prime cause of broken guns.
Dan


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Dphariss
.300 member


Reged: 18/04/06
Posts: 130
Loc: Montana
Re: Smokeless for black? [Re: DarylS]
      #122852 - 02/01/09 04:31 PM

Quote:

Bonanza - note the shotgun primer requirement. Obviously designed for the in-line abominations.




Note the comment on the "bone crushing" ME.
I have a well broken bone from a mule deer. Done with a 54 RB from a pistol probably 1000 fps impact velocity and far less than 2600 ft lbs of ME. Guess this it had "bone crushing power" too
Its all hype...
Dan


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Kaimiloa
.224 member


Reged: 12/03/09
Posts: 37
Loc: Arizona, USA
Re: Smokeless for black? [Re: Dphariss]
      #130538 - 26/03/09 04:50 PM

Hi Folks,
I wandered into this thread a late-comer, obviously. Having been nosing around in some reloading information lately, and always interested in the wisdom/perils of the oft-mentioned nitro-for-black loads, is should be mentioned that TrailBoss is a quite "fast" powder as far as its position on a list of smokeless powder burn-rates. In short, it tends to perform like a rapidly pressure-building pistol powder. Doubtless this is how it was designed, to give BP-like obturation to lead bullets for Cowboy Action and other shooting. Many other smokeless powders do not have a "quick" enough pressure curve to bump up (obturate) bullets like BP will do. BP goes off quickly once ignited (and it is EASILY ignited, as mentioned by others here), and provides obturation for good bullet function, lack of leading, and accuracy.

Trailboss didn't work, according to Sherman Bell in the Double Gun Journal (tireless experimenter if there ever was one), for use in large capacity BPE cases. No doubt it was simply "out of its league" as far as its design features. BP will work in all kinds of applications, notably by choosing the best granulation.
Now if Hodgdon will go a step further and make a "TrailBoss P" for pistols, similar in purpose to Pyrodex P, as well as a "TrailBoss RS" similar to Pyrodex RS for rifles and shotguns, we may be in business. They already have the TrailBoss P, or close to it, in the currently marked TrailBoss powder.

As an aside, Triple7 substitute powder is NOT just another Pyrodex. It is relatively not stuff, similar to Swiss BP as to pressure and power IMHO, and was developed for use in modern ordnance-steel MLs. It should not just be used willy-nilly for a BP substitute in old guns. Please keep in mind, too, that all these substitute powders, including Pyrodex, are really smokeless powders with some additives for smoke. So to say we never use smokeless powders in MLs is a misnomer. It is the KIND of smokeless, and its design parameters, that is critically important.

Aloha, Ka'imiloa

--------------------
Few pleasures exceed restoring a nice old gun and returning it to shooting and hunting.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylSModerator
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26992
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Smokeless for black? [Re: Kaimiloa]
      #130571 - 27/03/09 02:42 AM

Further note about T-7 and Pyrodex - they are both made with postassium percolates and their fouling is very hydroscopic - more so than BP fouling. Too, once 'wet' they form corrosives and are very hard on barrels.
Stay with the proven - BP rules.

As to Trail Boss - check the pressures it developes in rifle rounds - it is NOT a low pressure powder - it produces extremely high pressure compared to the low velocities provided.

In a 'little' .45/70 - a mere 13gr.(or so) of it punches pressure up over 23,000PSI. For the 800fps to 900fp produced, that's high indeed. (figures from memory but close)
It certainly does have it's place though - in my .45/60 Sharps, it puts 385gr. cast into the same group at 100yards as a 60gr. load of BP with 506gr. Schmitzers. So - I can practise with clean shooting (no case cleaning - I'm lazy)) with Trail boss with less recoil too, suing the same sight settings & obtaining almost as good accuracy. It does have a place on some loading benches.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Kaimiloa
.224 member


Reged: 12/03/09
Posts: 37
Loc: Arizona, USA
Re: Smokeless for black? [Re: DarylS]
      #130584 - 27/03/09 04:38 AM

Once again, I would like to second Daryl's sage words about Pyrodex. I have no experience with Triple 7 but certainly accept his (now live in the land of available BP!). For many years I had nothing but Pyrodex to shoot in my MLs in humid Hawaii. It is disastrously hygroscopic. If you spilled a few grains on the bench you could just watch it accumulate its own little surrounding of distinct moisture, til it seemed to melt. Done shooting, you had to clean very thoroughly, then clean again in a few days. The residue would remain in any fine cracks or corrosion of the gun, and "fester" Ordinary high quality gun oils to no avail. BP is like a godsend by comparison, and here in dry Arizona it has little corrosion tendency.

Daryl is also quite right about TrailBoss being a high pressure powder, in keeping with its "fast" makeup. Scary thought when somebody thinks it is simply like BP and a caseful in their favorite round should be no problem. Yet it is highly interesting that it works well as a BP substitute in some rifle cartridges, just as the also relatively fast 4198 does. But in the proper dose only!

Daryl, I'm a newbie and don't know if it 's already been done, but it seems to me that a separate thread to document and discuss the usages (and caveats) of TrailBoss would well be in order. Many more NitroExpress members or browsers would see it, and it would have considerable worth. If this is feasible, could I prevail on you to start one and reiterate plus build on your comments?

Aloha, Ka'imiloa

--------------------
Few pleasures exceed restoring a nice old gun and returning it to shooting and hunting.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
greenshoots
.300 member


Reged: 23/05/08
Posts: 204
Loc: uk
Re: Smokeless for black? [Re: Kaimiloa]
      #134481 - 05/05/09 03:56 AM

interesting pistol setup bramble who did the work.........

regards
viv


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Bramble
.375 member


Reged: 29/07/06
Posts: 950
Loc: England
Re: Smokeless for black? [Re: greenshoots]
      #134518 - 05/05/09 10:44 AM

Quote:

interesting pistol setup bramble who did the work.........

regards
viv




Me.








Regards


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylSModerator
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26992
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Smokeless for black? [Re: Bramble]
      #134534 - 05/05/09 03:04 PM

Concerning Trail Boss - merely google this powder and get the data right off IMR's (Hodgdon) site.

In my .45/60 chambered Sharps, 15 grs.Trail Boss fills the case to the base of a .45 cal. bullet (same overall length as a Marlin .45/70) and develops 1,100fps - yet the pressures are about 4,000PSI higher than a 1,650fps load with a 45.0gr. charge 400gr. Jacketed bullet using Bench Mark (35" barrel).

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1



Extra information
0 registered and 42 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  DarylS 

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating:
Topic views: 10362

Rate this topic

Jump to

Contact Us NitroExpress.com

Powered by UBB.threads™ 6.5.5


Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact


Copyright 2003 to 2011 - all rights reserved