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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles

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bwananelson
.400 member


Reged: 08/10/07
Posts: 1195
Loc: DELTONA FLORIDA
470 vs 500
      #120998 - 12/12/08 11:33 AM

how much differance between the 470 and 500,i have a 470 what should one jump to next

--------------------
THERE ARE NO DO OVERS IN LIFE DONT LET A CHANCE AT A DREAM SLIP AWAY.


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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: 470 vs 500 [Re: bwananelson]
      #121003 - 12/12/08 01:11 PM

Quote:

how much differance between the 470 and 500,i have a 470 what should one jump to next




577 3"

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: 470 vs 500 [Re: mickey]
      #121004 - 12/12/08 01:14 PM


Yes, a difference when they hit the animal for sure,
as to how it affects your shoulder, who knows, alot
of factors.

But although the 500 packs a fair bit more punch than
a 470, in reality the next level is as Mickey says,
the 577.


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bigdog
.375 member


Reged: 05/02/06
Posts: 559
Loc: Southern Illinois
Re: 470 vs 500 [Re: 500Nitro]
      #121006 - 12/12/08 01:36 PM

In energy, it is about like the difference in a 458 win mag and a 458 lott. &00 or 800 ft.lbs of energy is a felt difference on the other end with felt recoil, but the 500 is not a terrible kicker at all. 577 is a bigger difference in both ends of the gun, still quite shootable though.

--------------------
Kyle, I love you buddy, Dad


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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: 470 vs 500 [Re: bigdog]
      #121019 - 12/12/08 05:41 PM


I agree bigdog, IMHO not a huge difference on the shoulder
and I have fired one after the other.


As I mentioned before, I have seen a big difference on the animals, they really do notice the .500.


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Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: 470 vs 500 [Re: bigdog]
      #121039 - 13/12/08 01:34 AM

Quote:

In energy, it is about like the difference in a 458 win mag and a 458 lott. &00 or 800 ft.lbs of energy is a felt difference on the other end with felt recoil, but the 500 is not a terrible kicker at all. 577 is a bigger difference in both ends of the gun, still quite shootable though.





Agree with the above totally.. not really noticable in recoil from a 470 to 500 in my experience...there is, as stated above, a noticeable, but not intolerale difference once at the 577 level in 3" form..

One other thing you should keep in mind..is what are you going to use if for?? Strictly for elephant?? As suggested in several articles I have read and the .577's I have shot..the thought of packing a 14 lb double around for hours on end, day after day...is not my idea of fun...where as most of the newer 500's are in the 10 to 11 lb range...while a few lbs may not seem like much..after a 15 mile hike --it all adds up...or maybe, I am just getting old..

Also feel like a .577 is a much more specialized caliber than a 500 for the reasons mentioned..


Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Edited by Ripp (13/12/08 01:38 AM)


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grandveneur
.400 member


Reged: 21/09/08
Posts: 1356
Loc: France / Germany
Re: 470 vs 500 [Re: Ripp]
      #121095 - 13/12/08 06:37 PM

I agree. It's a special caliber for elefant hunting. I have a old one from Webley & Scott and, that's right, it's a problem when you carried it 6 hours on your shoulder! But hunting must be a hard work, dont forget, the finale is the dead for the opponent!

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ozhunter
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Reged: 18/08/04
Posts: 1692
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Re: 470 vs 500 [Re: grandveneur]
      #121099 - 13/12/08 07:14 PM

I really like the 470NE but for full on Ele hunting I think the a 500NE would be hard to beat.
IMHO, Its no good closing in on a Jumbo trashed by carrying a heavy Rifle (over 11lbs).


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grandveneur
.400 member


Reged: 21/09/08
Posts: 1356
Loc: France / Germany
Re: 470 vs 500 [Re: ozhunter]
      #121123 - 14/12/08 05:24 AM

Not a problem!

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Anonymous
Unregistered




Re: 470 vs 500 [Re: bwananelson]
      #121253 - 15/12/08 01:40 PM

That's a tie in my book, and they both sell very well.

The next step would be a nice 13lb. 577 3", Holland & Holland developed the cartridge to stop a charging Elephant, and it works quite well.


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500grains
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Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: 470 vs 500 [Re: bwananelson]
      #121264 - 15/12/08 03:10 PM

Quote:

how much differance between the 470 and 500,i have a 470 what should one jump to next




No need to jump at all. For a client, the 470 is just perfect. For a PH facing charging ele at 5 yards or less, the .500 has a bit more shock effect, due to greater bullet diameter, which increases the odds of turning a charge if the brain is missed. If you like the rifle you are using now, I would not switch. How the rifle fits you and how well you like it are much more important factors than 470 vs 500.


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DUGABOY1
.400 member


Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: 470 vs 500 [Re: bwananelson]
      #122067 - 24/12/08 04:16 AM

Quote:

how much differance between the 470 and 500,i have a 470 what should one jump to next





I personally like the 500NE better than the 470NE, but that is a personal thing. By "Jump to" if you mean "up" then the 500NE is a good place to start, but most here would consider the 500NE not much better than the 470NE. As far as resale goes the 470NE is far easier to sell quickly than a 500NE double rifle.

There is nothing wrong with jumping "DOWN" however. I would personally rather have a 450NE double rifle that either the 470NE 0r the 500NE. It is far more versatile, and the bullet selection is not only cheaper but numerous in choices. With proper placement, the 450NE will do the same job as the other two, but is not only easier on your shoulder, and lighter to carry mile after mile, but is far easier to learn to shoot well. Besides the 450NE is the ruler that all other double rifle cartridges are measured by. That round started it all with smokeless powder.

I've owned a couple of 577NE doubles, and I simply do not like them. They are heavy, by necessity, and are simply not pleasnt to shoot. The 470NE, and 500NE are,I find,about most shooter's limit for recoil, and weight, and IMO, they would be better off with a 450/400NE 3", or one of the .450 bores. It is easy to learn to shoot them, and because of the cost reduction compared to the bigger rounds, you get to shoot them far more, and because of that become very proficient with them! In the end, the rifle, chambered for what ever cartridge, one must be able to place bullets where they do the most good. The .400,and .450s give you that edge!

Like Dan said, if the 470NE fits you, and you can shoot it well, then I'd be prone to stay with that!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"


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bwananelson
.400 member


Reged: 08/10/07
Posts: 1195
Loc: DELTONA FLORIDA
Re: 470 vs 500 [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #122084 - 24/12/08 07:24 AM

i do have a 450 400 double,then the 470,it appears the 577 0r 600 would fill my gap on the low end i have a 9.3x74R so the lower end is filled.i am just facinated with doubles and i am learning alot here thanks to all here.i have a good 30-40 years left to collect and i wat to end with a 700 to be mine.i have to dream and aim high,dreams do come true

--------------------
THERE ARE NO DO OVERS IN LIFE DONT LET A CHANCE AT A DREAM SLIP AWAY.


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AfricaHunter
.224 member


Reged: 27/12/08
Posts: 17
Loc: California
Re: 470 vs 500 [Re: bwananelson]
      #122418 - 27/12/08 06:09 PM

One difference that is important to those heading on safari, and may become more important within the next few weeks, is the size of the ammunition. Anything greater than .5 is currently illegal to take out of the USA. There have been some recent cases reported of TSA actually refusing to let such ammunition pass through in hunters luggage. NRA issued a letter of warning this past June. This is a matter of existing law and is enforceable. Given the pending occupation of the White House by persons predisposed to look with disfavor upon anything gun related, I have decided within the past week to forego purchase of a .500NE which I have on reserve, and go instead with a .470NE. Ammunition for the .500NE contains bullets .519 inch in diameter and is thus illegal to export.

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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39896
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: 470 vs 500 [Re: AfricaHunter]
      #122419 - 27/12/08 06:11 PM

L-H

Cool, you finally got on!

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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AfricaHunter
.224 member


Reged: 27/12/08
Posts: 17
Loc: California
Re: 470 vs 500 [Re: NitroX]
      #122420 - 27/12/08 06:16 PM

I did and was going to email a thanks to you John, but guess I'll just do it here.
I have no idea what the problem was, but after trying for 5 weeks, it's good to finally be aboard. Now I need to figure out how to post a pic for my avatar.
THANKS!!!


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Der_Jaeger
.375 member


Reged: 09/10/08
Posts: 607
Loc: SE Pennsylvania
Re: 470 vs 500 [Re: AfricaHunter]
      #122430 - 27/12/08 09:24 PM

Quote:

One difference that is important to those heading on safari, and may become more important within the next few weeks, is the size of the ammunition. Anything greater than .5 is currently illegal to take out of the USA.




And so, history again repeats itself. This notion of making illegal those calibers which are used for sporting purposes spawned an era of new cartridge development and wildcatting. We don't have as many gaps today as once were, and our cartridges are more effective today with the advent of better powders and bullets but, who knows?

--------------------


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bonanza
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Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: 470 vs 500 [Re: Der_Jaeger]
      #122448 - 28/12/08 02:22 AM

What are the chances the .450 could make a comeback in doubles? A Merkel in .450 NE would suit me perfectly. A modern interpretation of the 45-70 is back in the hands of special forces, after a 110 year hiatus.

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"


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