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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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bigdog
.375 member


Reged: 05/02/06
Posts: 559
Loc: Southern Illinois
Problem with A Square Rifle
      #119764 - 29/11/08 05:15 PM

I went shooting with a group of seven today. We shot a 510 Kodiak express, 700 AHR, ultralite 500 Jeffery, 500 JRH, and took a 500 A Square Hannibal. The first 4 guns roared often with no problems. I think the ultralite 500 Jeffery, kicked the sharpest of them all. The 500 A Square would not chamber the reloads I had made for it. The bolt would not close with a round in the chamber. I checked the over all length of the cartridge, and it was to spec. When I got back to the house, I took some of the 500 A square brass that I hadn't loaded yet and tried to put a piece of brass only in the chamber, the bolt still wwould not close. My conclusion is that the gun, previously unfired,is either chambered incorrectly,or the factory brass is not to spec. I miked the brass and took about ten different measurements. All the measurements were to spec with the cartridge measurements in "Any shot you want",the A Square book on cartridges. Am I missing something? Could a factory actually put a gun out with the wrong chamber size? I guess I will call A Square Monday morning and see what advice Art has for me. The only other thing that went wrong during the afternoon was that one of my buddies flinched big time while shooting my BFR revolver chambered in Win 50-110. He accidently hit my chronograph and ruined it. So now that has to be worked on or replaced. I guess that gets listed under "shit happens." Over all though, I still enjoyed about 4 hours shooting with the guys, beats working any day of the week, and I got to avoid the shopping crowds with my wife, the day after Thanksgiving.

--------------------
Kyle, I love you buddy, Dad

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27014
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Problem with A Square Rifle [Re: bigdog]
      #119767 - 29/11/08 06:08 PM

Interesting that a chamber A-Square cut would not chamber a properly sized case.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Problem with A Square Rifle [Re: DarylS]
      #119773 - 29/11/08 06:40 PM


Most times I find a gun won't chamber a cartridge it is because the shoulder is too far forward OR the base of the case is too big / hasn't been resized.

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Tatume
.400 member


Reged: 09/06/07
Posts: 1091
Loc: Gloucester, Va USA
Re: Problem with A Square Rifle [Re: 500Nitro]
      #119782 - 29/11/08 11:44 PM

Guns are occasionally chambered incorrectly. As they are supposed to be test fired before shipment, I don’t understand how it could happen. However, my local gun dealer has received a couple of guns that were marked for one cartridge and were chambered for another.

One other possibility is that your extractor will not jump the rim. Have you tried placing the cartridge under the extractor before closing the bolt? Many folks will single-load a brand new gun, but some guns demand being fed from the magazine.

Take care, Tom

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Ndumo
.300 member


Reged: 21/12/03
Posts: 230
Loc: Namibia
Re: Problem with A Square Rifle [Re: bigdog]
      #119789 - 30/11/08 01:03 AM

bigdog, it might be a stupid question, but did the gun chamber rounds from the magazine? What action is on the rifle, a P17?

--------------------
Karl Stumpfe
Ndumo Hunting Safaris (Pty) Ltd.
karl@huntingsafaris.net
www.huntingsafaris.net
+264 811 285 416

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bigdog
.375 member


Reged: 05/02/06
Posts: 559
Loc: Southern Illinois
Re: Problem with A Square Rifle [Re: Ndumo]
      #119854 - 30/11/08 04:10 PM

The rim fits in the bolt face as it should. The rifle will feed a round from the magazine into the chamber, but the bolt will not close even then.??? The action is what ever A Square uses. I am not sure to tell you the truth of the actual make.

--------------------
Kyle, I love you buddy, Dad

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Problem with A Square Rifle [Re: bigdog]
      #119855 - 30/11/08 04:18 PM

I thought the issue was that the gun wou;dn't CHAMBER a round,
not whether it feeds.

As I said before, "Most times I find a gun won't chamber a cartridge it is because the shoulder is too far forward OR the base of the case is too big / hasn't been resized."


Try full length resizing a new case and try chambering that.

Suggest you push the shoulder back as far as possible.

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bigdog
.375 member


Reged: 05/02/06
Posts: 559
Loc: Southern Illinois
Re: Problem with A Square Rifle [Re: 500Nitro]
      #119868 - 30/11/08 08:12 PM

The main problem is right now I can't shoot the gun. I will do some more investigating. 500 nitro, you are correct, the problem is the gun won't chamber, because the bolt will not close all the way. I was under the impression from the previous owner that the brass was factory brass. I guess the shoulder could be in the wrong place, it measures to spec though. Thanks for the comments guys, I'll let you know how things turn out on this gun.

--------------------
Kyle, I love you buddy, Dad

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Problem with A Square Rifle [Re: bigdog]
      #119871 - 30/11/08 09:29 PM


bigdog

Measuring is one thing, what actually works in that chamber is another.

I have enough .4xx cal and .5xx cal Rifle's to have learnt that each one is different from others, even those chambered with the same reamer.

Anyway, good luck.

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450_366
.400 member


Reged: 17/01/07
Posts: 1068
Loc: Sweden, west-coast.
Re: Problem with A Square Rifle [Re: 500Nitro]
      #119873 - 30/11/08 10:21 PM

Is the rifle new or secondhand? If new take it back at try a chamber gauge and see if it chambers, if not, well they messed up and will sort it out.
If used borrow a chamber gauge and try it, if it doesent chamber you now why its second hand.
But the easyest is still to pull a bullet, full size it and check if it fitts, the guy that called the round new could always mean they bought it new from a reloading company.

But most important, how does it look? picture?

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

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bigdog
.375 member


Reged: 05/02/06
Posts: 559
Loc: Southern Illinois
Re: Problem with A Square Rifle [Re: 450_366]
      #119901 - 01/12/08 03:39 AM

450 366'
There is a picture of this rifle posted a few posts down under Big Bore Eye Candy from Bigdoggy. In the 4th picture, it is the green stocked rifle. I have the original stock stock in wood also. Art told me that he has a lifetime warranty on his rifles, regardless of who owns them. They keep all their records by serial number at the plant, so I am sure we will get to the cause of the problem soon. 500 nitro, you are correct about measuring. I just did a quick measure of the brass to see if something was way off to start with.

--------------------
Kyle, I love you buddy, Dad

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27014
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Problem with A Square Rifle [Re: bigdog]
      #119908 - 01/12/08 04:52 AM

As chambering reamers are used, they require re-sharpening. Sometimes the last few rifles are cut with very small chambers as a result of reamers being sharpened one to many times.
OK - there are minimun and maximum tolerances from reamer produces, rifle makers, SAAMI and die manufacturers. At times a few tousanths of difference can cause problems. This is what happens.

If you have reloading DIES cut with a NEW reamer (long die chamber) and a rifle CHAMBER cut an OLD one (short rifle chamber), the die might not be able to shove the case shoulder back far enough to allow the case to chamber in the rifle. It happens more often than one would believe.

Shaving a tich off the bottom of the dies, will allow them to shove the shoudler back far enough to allow the dies to size the case to fit the rifle's chamber. It's an easy fix and one I've done several times. No big deal.

The big problem comes when a guy buys short dies and has a long chamber. He then can push the shoulder back far enough to creat excessive headspace. This happens mostly with old green box dies.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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