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Hunting >> Hunting in Africa & hunting dangerous game
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larcher
.416 member


Reged: 11/01/05
Posts: 2655
Loc: Saverne, Alsace, France
client refused a 100 pounder, see picture
      #118042 - 01/11/08 01:45 AM

Tanzania, Selous, Ligombe camp, the client refused a 100 pounder (picture)




Arnaud Mermet PH of TAWISA in Tanzania just sent me these pictures.

Can You imagine that? the client guided by Francois Lyonnet and Arnaud Mermet refused to shoot this 100 pounder. Ivory of about 2.70m long ivory (106 inches).
The pissed PHs took this photo.



But client felt good with this 42 pounder (1.80m or 71 inches, 9feet). Compare to Arnaud who's a 6 footer as well



How would You react as a client and as a PH?

If You want this incredible elephant, move fast and get in touch with Arnaud on his website.
Arnaud MERMET

Edited by larcher (01/11/08 01:52 AM)

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: client refused a 100 pounder, see picture [Re: larcher]
      #118045 - 01/11/08 01:58 AM



F#@K is all I can say.

That is one hell of a set of tusks.

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88MauSporter
.375 member


Reged: 06/06/07
Posts: 530
Loc: Alaska / Texas
Re: client refused a 100 pounder, see picture [Re: 500Nitro]
      #118049 - 01/11/08 02:32 AM

It's sort of like shooting the last dinosaur. I can relate to the feeling and marvel at running across a monster like this 100 punder. How many would there be left in the world? Let him be king for a few more years and hope some poucher doen't bag him. The thick 42 pounders (9 feet long!) would do just fine.

--------------------
"A hunter should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everthing goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." 88MauSporter

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gryphon
.450 member


Reged: 01/01/03
Posts: 5487
Loc: Sambar ground/Victoria/Austral...
Re: client refused a 100 pounder, see picture [Re: 88MauSporter]
      #118052 - 01/11/08 02:45 AM

I bet the client refused when the price was quoted to him!

--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.

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shakari
.400 member


Reged: 09/02/03
Posts: 1107
Loc: South Africa
Re: client refused a 100 pounder, see picture [Re: 88MauSporter]
      #118054 - 01/11/08 02:45 AM

88,

He's actually the ideal animal to take (even without such fantastic tusks) - He's at the end of his life, has already passed his genes onto the next generation, and he'll be at the end of the wear of his last set of teeth. Take a close look at how the bones are beginning to stick out, esp on his hips and skull......... almost certainly because his teeth are so buggered he can't chew enough food to keep him alive and so is already in a downward spiral of health.

Look also at the background and it looks to me as though that's riverine habitat behind him. - This is typical of very old tuskers to seek out these habitats because there should be more succulent and easily digestable food in those areas.

Hope that helps..........

--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com



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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: client refused a 100 pounder, see picture [Re: shakari]
      #118060 - 01/11/08 03:33 AM

Aah-


The client likely 'already had a couple like that in the trophy room...'




--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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hoppdoc
.400 member


Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: client refused a 100 pounder, see picture [Re: tinker]
      #118064 - 01/11/08 03:42 AM

Betcha it was the $$$ that caused the clients decision--

Guys-How much would you pay for that animal??

50K?? 75K??, 100K??

Irrevalent to me, cause with my current finances all I could do would be to take pictures!!

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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shakari
.400 member


Reged: 09/02/03
Posts: 1107
Loc: South Africa
Re: client refused a 100 pounder, see picture [Re: hoppdoc]
      #118066 - 01/11/08 04:18 AM

The company that have that concession are one of the very best in Tanzania and they practice some excellent game management and conservation practices of any safari company anywhere in Africa......... but all that, is of course reflected in their prices. It's not my business to quote a price, (even if I knew it and I'm a bit out of touch with that company's prices) but it won't have been cheap............ that said, if you can afford the daily rates etc, you can probably afford the trophy fees without having to worry too much.

--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com



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DoubleD
.400 member


Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2437
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma
Re: client refused a 100 pounder, see picture [Re: shakari]
      #118068 - 01/11/08 04:47 AM

Why should the PH be pissed, it's not his hunt, it's the clients.

Is he is focused on a big paycheck? Prestige? The fact that it is known he provided the client with an opportunity at such a grand animal and the client passed that animal will make the PH even more money, It surely it will draw him even more customers who would want to take such animal.

--------------------
DD, Ret.

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Der_Jaeger
.375 member


Reged: 09/10/08
Posts: 607
Loc: SE Pennsylvania
Re: client refused a 100 pounder, see picture [Re: DoubleD]
      #118072 - 01/11/08 05:49 AM



I'm guessing the client had the target on the beast and whispered to the PH, "How much?" That would scare me off, too!

Is it just me or does the photo of the 100 pounder look like it's been tampered with???? Hard to tell these days since good old film is losing ground to digital photography.

--------------------

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88MauSporter
.375 member


Reged: 06/06/07
Posts: 530
Loc: Alaska / Texas
Re: client refused a 100 pounder, see picture [Re: shakari]
      #118077 - 01/11/08 10:00 AM

I understand all of that. I'm just looking at it in the nostalgic and emotional sense. I tried to explain the same to my beloved about the Old Bull, last legs, etc. I realize that, but at the moment of seeing such a grand old man, I still think I may have had the same feeling as our French friend. Logical thinking is a very hard thing at times.
If it was a big old Cape Buff, I would take the OLD done bachelor. Rubbed and broken, scarred and crazy.

--------------------
"A hunter should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everthing goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." 88MauSporter

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Sarg
.400 member


Reged: 20/01/07
Posts: 1365
Loc: Nil
Re: client refused a 100 pounder, see picture [Re: 88MauSporter]
      #118078 - 01/11/08 10:14 AM

Well the one he did shoot looks very nice ! looks more like 60+lbs on the good Tusk & more like 6FT I think ? as 71in , 1.8m = 6 FT or close to it !

Must say photo looks a bit dodgey ?
Where is the other Tusk ?

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450_366
.400 member


Reged: 17/01/07
Posts: 1068
Loc: Sweden, west-coast.
Re: client refused a 100 pounder, see picture [Re: Sarg]
      #118081 - 01/11/08 10:27 AM

Quote:


Must say photo looks a bit dodgey ?



Thats my reaction as well when i saw it, its something with the focus on the trees in the back, but could also be a crappy digital camera.

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

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MacNaughton360
.275 member


Reged: 10/12/07
Posts: 99
Loc: Indiana, USA
Re: client refused a 100 pounder, see picture [Re: 450_366]
      #118083 - 01/11/08 11:02 AM

To my untrained eye, the tusk looks fishy. The balance of the photo is matte, and the tusk and only the tusk appears to have an odd 'gleam' to it, for lack of a better word.
Is the tusk coming out of the skull at the proper angle?

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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39881
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: client refused a 100 pounder, see picture [Re: MacNaughton360]
      #118089 - 01/11/08 03:25 PM

If the 100 pounder elephant had a "special" price tag to match, then I could well understand someone turning it down simply because of "price".

Trophy fees being determined by trophy size is the epitome of "cheque book" hunting, where skill doesn't play much of a part, just the size of the wallet. One reason I detest it so much.

I'm not saying that a "trophy fee = trophy size" was an issue here but it is one possible explanation.


***

If the ele photo posted is real it is a VERY nice elephant. The head of the bull also shows some appearance of old age.

The tusk looks very sharp and pointed though.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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shakari
.400 member


Reged: 09/02/03
Posts: 1107
Loc: South Africa
Re: client refused a 100 pounder, see picture [Re: NitroX]
      #118090 - 01/11/08 04:22 PM

I'm sure the pic is 100% genuine and just taken with a not so good camera and probably in a hurry. I don't know the PH (Arnaud Mermet) concerned personally, but I do know his reputation and it's one of the very best. Some of you my remember he posted here a year or two ago - and some of you may also remember his website, which has plenty of stunning trophies. - Believe me, he has no need to mess with images to make them look bigger. The same could be said of the company he works for. They're one of the best and most ethical operations in Africa. - Frankly there's no doubt in my mind as to the authenticity of that image.

Don't know if it'll help, but I took the original image into photoshop, cropped it, sharpened it once, and then used the auto balance tool to improve the colour balance.

I can't do anything to improve the definition of the tusks because of the mud on 'em.

FWIW, to explin the colours in the original image, the foreground looks like it was burned, probably earlier this season, hence the short grass/new green growth. The area immediatly behind the Elephant was probably burned the year before, or maybe the year before that, hence the coarser taller grasses and further back, looks to me like it could well be riverine habitat and if you look to the right hand side towards the top of the image and look through the bush, it looks to me like you can just see bits of the opposite river bank or if not, it might be a fallen tree trunk........ I might be wrong on that though.



--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com



Edited by shakari (01/11/08 05:10 PM)

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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39881
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: client refused a 100 pounder, see picture [Re: NitroX]
      #118092 - 01/11/08 05:54 PM

Quote:

The tusk looks very sharp and pointed though.



What's the other tusk like?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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shakari
.400 member


Reged: 09/02/03
Posts: 1107
Loc: South Africa
Re: client refused a 100 pounder, see picture [Re: NitroX]
      #118094 - 01/11/08 06:10 PM

John,

I would guess the other tusk is broken off - probably fairly short. The reason the end of that tusk is shaped like that is because he uses that one as the working tusk and if you look carefully, you can see a kink that has been caused by his pulling grass etc over it to clean the dust and mud etc off the roots before eating it. - It's very common for Elephants to have that feature.

--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com



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Der_Jaeger
.375 member


Reged: 09/10/08
Posts: 607
Loc: SE Pennsylvania
Re: client refused a 100 pounder, see picture [Re: shakari]
      #118100 - 01/11/08 08:55 PM



In addition to price, the client probably passed because it only had one tusk

--------------------

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JabaliHunter
.400 member


Reged: 16/05/07
Posts: 1958
Loc: England
Re: client refused a 100 pounder, see picture [Re: Der_Jaeger]
      #118105 - 01/11/08 11:21 PM

Well thats a very lucky bull! I couldn't have said no - broken tusk, re-mortgage or otherwise!

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dale
.333 member


Reged: 28/02/06
Posts: 341
Loc: logan W.V.
Re: client refused a 100 pounder, see picture [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #118147 - 02/11/08 04:38 PM

Posted for Xausa

Selous ivory tends to run long and thin, as this pair, taken in 1972, indicates. They weighed in at +- 70 pounds, as I recall. This was a memorable day, with Ndofu in the morning and Chui in the evening. Still that photograph of the "100 pounder" looks a little odd, as though the tusk didn't fit the lip, but I suppose you had to be there. My 96 pounder had a much thicker diameter at the lip, but it was taken in Keyna.

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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: client refused a 100 pounder, see picture [Re: dale]
      #118148 - 02/11/08 04:50 PM

Great photo Dale!


Thanks for the mini story on it too.




On the photo of the elephant at the top of this thread, a couple of other things that could contribute to the 'weird' image quality are likely condensation on the lenses of the (likely compact) camera, and the breeze.
The grasses are moving in the breeze, the elephant's ear is moving, the tusk is solid and massive, stable and not quivering. Tusk is solid and it's image is crisp, the grass is blurred, and the whole image has a bit of a haze across it.

I've had cameras blush the lens elements in changing humidity and temperature, especially if the little camera's been packing in a pocket.



--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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Paul
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Reged: 28/08/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Re: client refused a 100 pounder, see picture [Re: tinker]
      #118153 - 02/11/08 05:42 PM

Steve, your Photoshop work enhances the impression that the original pic was touched up, if only to improve the contrast of the ivory. Look at the fuzzy black outline on the upper part of the tusk. Natural light does not outline things like that, esp. the skyward top edge.

- Paul

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shakari
.400 member


Reged: 09/02/03
Posts: 1107
Loc: South Africa
Re: client refused a 100 pounder, see picture [Re: Paul]
      #118163 - 02/11/08 08:04 PM

Paul,

I've never personally met the PH that took the picture but I do know him and the company he works for by reputation and believe me, both reputations are absolutely impeccable. - I have no doubt in my mind that the picture is genuine.

The company are one of about three that are right at the top of the tree and they have some of the finest camps and areas in Tanzania and therefore in Africa. - They practice extremely good conservation and management practices and their areas regularly produce stunning trophies because of those good conservation and management practices.

Price wise, this company is also at the top of the scale but it has to be that way because of those same good practices.

--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com



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Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: client refused a 100 pounder, see picture [Re: Der_Jaeger]
      #118177 - 03/11/08 02:57 AM

Quote:



In addition to price, the client probably passed because it only had one tusk




Very similar thing happened this year in Zim..client turned down the bull as he only had one tusk..the other was broken off half way up..

Given the opportunity and I could afford it, I would take the 100# in a heart beat. Agree with the statement, this is the animal that should be harvested...much better to be over quickly than the slow painful starvation death...

Having said that, one could not harvest such an awesome animal with feelings creating a stir in his soul...if not, you are in the hunt for the wrong reason...IMHO...

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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