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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles

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Ripp
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Ruger .416 shorty....
      #117961 - 30/10/08 11:59 PM

Talked to a inside type guy last Friday---the Ruger in .416 us a reality and will be heading our way in 2009..although probably will not offer more than the others...can never have too many different big bore calibers..

Ripp

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Der_Jaeger
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: Ripp]
      #117963 - 31/10/08 12:02 AM



Agreed! I love them all I look forward to reading the reviews.

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BFaucett
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: Der_Jaeger]
      #118631 - 10/11/08 10:15 AM

Just FYI.

The .416 Ruger on Hornady's web site:
http://www.hornady.com/story.php?s=790

Product Spec Sheet (pdf file)
http://www.hornady.com/images/sell_sheets/09-dangerous_game.pdf

Cheers!
-Bob F.


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bigmaxx
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: BFaucett]
      #118635 - 10/11/08 01:21 PM

Good news Ripp, I cant wait!!!

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munk
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: bigmaxx]
      #118640 - 10/11/08 04:20 PM

I noticed Hornady also is making the 338 XLT Marlin, a .338 cal 200 gr bullet with a BC of about .430 traveling at 2560 fps.

Lever fans will be happy.

Does the Ruger case have more capacity than the older 416 Rem? It would be nice if the new Ruger round could make the 400 gr bullet at 2400 fps without the pressure of the 416 Remington. I've read the Remington gets sticky in the heat.


munk


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Ripp
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: munk]
      #118658 - 11/11/08 01:18 AM

Quote:

I noticed Hornady also is making the 338 XLT Marlin, a .338 cal 200 gr bullet with a BC of about .430 traveling at 2560 fps.

Lever fans will be happy.

Does the Ruger case have more capacity than the older 416 Rem? It would be nice if the new Ruger round could make the 400 gr bullet at 2400 fps without the pressure of the 416 Remington. I've read the Remington gets sticky in the heat.


munk



++++++++++++++



IMHO, The "sticky" issue is a lot of BS...regarding the Rem .416...have used it on 4 hunts in Africa in temps up to 118F...never had a bit of a problem ...ever...

another thing I noticed when I was in Zim this year...3 of the PH's in camp were carrying rifles in .416 Rem...can hardly believe they would do so if there was a problem with it..talked to them on this very issue...again, none of them had expreienced a problem..and they do this every day...good enough for them..good enough for me...

When I head over to hunt bull elephant..this will be going with me again...without a doubt...

Thanks

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Ripp
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: Ripp]
      #121136 - 14/12/08 07:11 AM

FYI---Saw in SPORTAFIELD magazine last night two different advertisments regarding an offering for the .416 Ruger ammo--talked to Ruger yesterday...supposedly the firearms will be available early 2009...

Ripp

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Blank
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: Ripp]
      #122904 - 03/01/09 04:56 PM

Mine arrived today, and it was love at first sight. Made a full post over at AR, but the gist of it is - WOW! 9# even with an old-style steel K3 Weaver, and it balances and handles great. Should be the ultimate close cover gun. Love that big white front sight.

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Ripp
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: Blank]
      #122942 - 04/01/09 09:13 AM

Congrats on the new gun--can't wait for you to fire that baby up and see how she shoots..

You are right--think it will make for an awesome close cover gun with the short barrel and all..saw an article yesterday where Hornady is stating they are getting around 2325 fps with a 20" barrel...which if accurate, would be really good...

Ripp

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Edited by Ripp (05/01/09 01:23 AM)


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Ripp
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: Ripp]
      #123090 - 06/01/09 01:41 AM

Info from the Hornady website...

Ripp


http://www.hornady.com/story.php?s=790

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Blank
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: Ripp]
      #124614 - 20/01/09 04:24 PM

Ammo arrived and it seems to cycle and function just fine. Will probably have to wait until after SCI to get a range report, but that is not too long. DGX on left of my 450/400 3" and DGS on the right.



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Ripp
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: Blank]
      #124661 - 21/01/09 01:40 AM

cool looking cartridge..Have to let us know how it shoots...

Maybe you and 9.3x57 can get together and do some skull tests....

Ripp

--------------------
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ChinaFleetSailor
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: Ripp]
      #124867 - 22/01/09 03:47 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I noticed Hornady also is making the 338 XLT Marlin, a .338 cal 200 gr bullet with a BC of about .430 traveling at 2560 fps.

Lever fans will be happy.

Does the Ruger case have more capacity than the older 416 Rem? It would be nice if the new Ruger round could make the 400 gr bullet at 2400 fps without the pressure of the 416 Remington. I've read the Remington gets sticky in the heat.


munk



++++++++++++++



IMHO, The "sticky" issue is a lot of BS...regarding the Rem .416...have used it on 4 hunts in Africa in temps up to 118F...never had a bit of a problem ...ever...

another thing I noticed when I was in Zim this year...3 of the PH's in camp were carrying rifles in .416 Rem...can hardly believe they would do so if there was a problem with it..talked to them on this very issue...again, none of them had expreienced a problem..and they do this every day...good enough for them..good enough for me...

When I head over to hunt bull elephant..this will be going with me again...without a doubt...

Thanks

Ripp




It's probably true that the "sticky" issue isn't an issue now, & may not have been for a long, long time. But I don't believe the reports early on of pressure problems were imaginary issues, either. And by early on I mean up until about 10 years ago.

African Hunter magazine may be the main "culprit" here. They report on rifles and cartridges used during at the annual PH & Guides test/refresher training course in Zimbabwe. And apparently there have been problems with some .416Rem ammo, and Remington rifles in 416Rem in particular. It's the kind of issue that, if it happens, the rifle & cartridge get a stink attached that lingers on after the real bug has been worked out. Particularly when that info gets preserved in book form like "Ndlovu," which is African Hunter magazine's guide to hunting elephant. It's a great book, and I'm sure the info about actually hunting elephant will remain valid as long as there are elephants to hunt, but what may have been perfectly valid rifle/cartridge info when the book was compiled may not represent the state of manufacturing a couple of years later. If your ammo is fairly fresh it isn't a problem anymore.

Still, some people hold onto and use old ammo for a long time. I know some old deer hunters who last bought a new box of ammo 15 years ago, which means they have 5 years to go before they'll need a new box. PHs, I hear, fall into the same general category. So leave some extra ammo if its legal. I know I'd feel better, at least, knowing that if I went back a year or two later he'd rotated some reasonably new stock onto his cartridge belt.

Anyway, I hope the Ruger round doesn't have any teething problems. I'm trying to talk a friend into going to Cameroon with me in 2010 and he's looking at getting one. Let us know how it shoots.


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Ripp
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: ChinaFleetSailor]
      #124893 - 23/01/09 01:23 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:


Still, some people hold onto and use old ammo for a long time. I know some old deer hunters who last bought a new box of ammo 15 years ago, which means they have 5 years to go before they'll need a new box. PHs, I hear, fall into the same general category. So leave some extra ammo if its legal. I know I'd feel better, at least, knowing that if I went back a year or two later he'd rotated some reasonably new stock onto his cartridge belt.





Think some of what you said about may be the culprit..have hunted with quite a few PH's in various parts of Africa...they day to day care of firearms, at least what I have seen, is less than desirable...ie, they maybe don't clean them as often as they should...guess my point is, perhaps that could at least conceivably, be part of the "sticky" issue...

Oh, don't worry, all the tests on the new Ruger will confirm its a better cartridge and the older ones like the .416 Rigby, Hoffman, or even the newer editions such as Remington and Weatherby are not nearly as efficent....oddly enough however, year after year those same said cartridges continue to take down game with a hitch...

They may not hit the Rigby too hard as they still sell guns chambered in that round...found it really interesting that in some of their advertising for this they mention the 415 Hoffman and yet don't mention the Remington or Weatherby rounds...gee, why do you suppose that is.??

Ripp

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9.3x57
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: Ripp]
      #124895 - 23/01/09 01:59 AM

This whole discussion is very interesting.

Slightly OT I guess...

Not that it'll EVER happen, but I personally would love to see a military Ordnance-style test of supposedly dead-reliable Dangerous Game rifles and ammunition.

Comparative testing of rifles complete with sand, mud, rust {sal ammoniac immersion}, squib and overload ammo testing along with testing of corroded ammo.

Truthfully, such guns would not have to be tested to destruction. Parameters could be modified to leave a gun functional while still exposing probable areas of weakness and flaws that very truthfully could put a hunter in real danger.

Such test parameters are pretty easy to establish per old Ordnance documents.

Such a test would separate the Rock Stars from the Groupies and I am pretty certain some very Sacred Cows would wind up in the barbeque pit.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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ChinaFleetSailor
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: 9.3x57]
      #124901 - 23/01/09 03:43 AM

Quote:

Such test parameters are pretty easy to establish per old Ordnance documents.

Such a test would separate the Rock Stars from the Groupies and I am pretty certain some very Sacred Cows would wind up in the barbeque pit.




I doubt that'd happen. The part about the sacred cows winding up in the barbeque pit. If that test dumped on someone's sacred cow, your copy of the test results would wind up in the barbeque pit first.

I mean, I tell myself that I'm an entirely rational purchaser of firearms. That my choice of the CZ550 in .416 Rigby was based entirely on an objective evaluation of the attributes of available 40 caliber factory rifles/cartridges at the time I bought it. Which would have been mid-2000, so essentially what's in the 1999 Gun Digest.

It's sort of like cars. If you need one now, then you have to buy what's available now. You can't wait for the "perfect" 2012 model to hit the dealer's floor.

Obviously, 9 years later things are different, and my rational side tells me my choice could be different. Time hasn't stood still. New rifles & cartridges are available, and whatever problems the .416Rem had then have been solved, etc., etc., blah, blah, blah. But after having the rifle for nearly 10 years and customizing to suit me I've sort of become attached to it, and when someone starts spouting off about how much better the .416 this or that is than Rigby, my instantaneous first reaction is more like "What the !$#% did you say about my rifle?!" than "Let's look at the facts; a cartridge case is just a piece of brass, and it's kind of stupid to get ticked off about what someone said about a piece of brass."

I will tell you this; you'd practically have to convince me that my Rigby can't possibly work anymore and the new and better rifle/cartridge combos transport themselves without me having to carry them before I'd give up my considerable investment and exchange it for something "better, slimmer, trimmer," etc. Both my rational side and my reptilian brain agree on that.

But it wouldn't stop me from, say, recommending to my friend who may go to Cameroon with me & isn't a reloader and is on a pretty tight budget what with the new kid and all, that he ought to take a serious look at the Hawkeye in .416 Ruger as it may be an ideal choice for him.

Although I do have to admit he has good taste. After handling my CZ550 .416 Rigby that's been customized by American Hunting Rifles, he has the sense to admit it is vastly superior to ALL other rifles and will reliably slay large dangerous beasts like NO Remington or Weatherby could ever hope to.

So there.


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Isopeura
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: ChinaFleetSailor]
      #124902 - 23/01/09 04:13 AM

This is how I see new Ruger cartridges:

In my opinion, these cartridges do what they do very well, except when compared to their ancestors. .375 H&H is still a functional king (or queen) and it is among the easier ones in feeding department. .416 is one of the trickier ones to make feed properly, but still manageable.

Short and fat cases in general are not as easy from the gunmakers point of view. Feeding is the most difficult thing in general and these cartridges don't make that job any easier. What comes to pressures, however, I'm certain that these cartridges are not a problem since at least from .375 Ruger I've had some really mean velocities without bad pressures. Actually the discomfort towards shooter starts a bit earlier than case sticking.

IMHO, The reason for these cartridges existence, however, seems to be a bit worse than I'd like to imagine. How many is still talking about the Big Rugers (Safari Magnums) at the moment? No one. And this seems to be the true meaning of these cartridges - to drop one rifle action and build all of the rifles using one less action size. I don't like the idea of being right on this one, but I think that we have lately seen some mean tricks in order of cutting manufacturing costs...


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9.3x57
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: ChinaFleetSailor]
      #124903 - 23/01/09 04:22 AM

CFS:

What I am interested in would be a test to uncover typical design warts that can be expected of a gun when used under severe conditions. Most modern non-military weapons of any sort are not subjected to severe use and indeed, with the current wars we are fighting, higher echelon repair facilities are available to most units han was the case in many past wars.

DG hunting is frequently compared to war fighting and it only seems comon sense that a gun that might be needed to save a life should have all its weaknesses known to the hunter before the Day arrives. Back when I was selling guns, I told guys to work them hard and "beat them up a bit" but most were afraid to even rack the bolts hard for fear of "breaking it"...

You are right tho, maybe most think that a gun gets a great reputation because it never goes wrong. This is not, of course, true. ALL gun designs have limits, conditions under which they fail, and service life expectancies, both as a result of repeated mechanical functioning and subjection to repeated firing of live ammo.

Ordnance tests are fascinating reading because they expose each weapon's weaknesses, and then The-powers-That-Be have to decide which weakness or collection of weaknesses is less objectionable than anothers and then choose between the guns.

I just happen to be a Ruger M77MKII fan and they are my favorite modern mass production rifle actions. They have garnered a pretty solid reputation for reliability, but even the MKII has a couple weak spots that I personally would address before I would consider it acceptable off the shelf for DG hunting, or really, any hunting where alot of money exchanged hands. Especially with a large round like the .416, and ESPECIALLY when that round and rifle match is new and relatively untested {that is, the functioning of the round in multiple mass produced guns over time}.

All guns have warts. All of them. All my new guns acquire scuffs and dings and dents and such in the first weeks of ownership as I play with them and mess with them to purposefully find where their warts are. And always I uncover some, most of the time pretty early on.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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9.3x57
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: Isopeura]
      #124904 - 23/01/09 04:25 AM

Quote:

This is how I see new Ruger cartridges...




+++1 with your whole post, Iso!

The new Ruger .416 looks like a really good one, but how committed are they to keeping it around I wonder, and how committed are buyers to encouraging them to do so?

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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Der_Jaeger
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: ChinaFleetSailor]
      #124909 - 23/01/09 04:52 AM

[quote
Although I do have to admit he has good taste. After handling my CZ550 .416 Rigby that's been customized by American Hunting Rifles, he has the sense to admit it is vastly superior to ALL other rifles and will reliably slay large dangerous beasts like NO Remington or Weatherby could ever hope to.

So there.




Whoa! Let's not get outta hand, here.

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JabaliHunter
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: 9.3x57]
      #124913 - 23/01/09 05:01 AM

Quote:

Not that it'll EVER happen, but I personally would love to see a military Ordnance-style test of supposedly dead-reliable Dangerous Game rifles and ammunition.

Comparative testing of rifles complete with sand, mud, rust {sal ammoniac immersion}, squib and overload ammo testing along with testing of corroded ammo.



You just stay away from my rifles!


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Ripp
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: ChinaFleetSailor]
      #124917 - 23/01/09 05:41 AM

Quote:

Quote:


I will tell
Although I do have to admit he has good taste. After handling my CZ550 .416 Rigby that's been customized by American Hunting Rifles, he has the sense to admit it is vastly superior to ALL other rifles and will reliably slay large dangerous beasts like NO Remington or Weatherby could ever hope to.

So there.



========



Yeah, and with a soft touch while rubbing my rear-end...I'll bend over and start dropping silver dollars into a bucket for you too...

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Ripp
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: 9.3x57]
      #124918 - 23/01/09 05:45 AM

Quote:

Quote:

This is how I see new Ruger cartridges...




+++1 with your whole post, Iso!

The new Ruger .416 looks like a really good one, but how committed are they to keeping it around I wonder, and how committed are buyers to encouraging them to do so?



+++++++++==

9.3

Predict they will sell a pile of them this year...sales were considerably over their expectations in regards to their 375---

Seems as though interest in Africa has really exploded--BUT...then you have the world economy mess..that will certainly play a big part into how that continues...

I plan to get one for my son,,,if for no other reason than to show how much better and efficient it is than the Rigby..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Con
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: Ripp]
      #124920 - 23/01/09 07:20 AM

Isopeura,
I agree with the main thrust of your post, put these Ruger cartridges are fantastic at breaking the CRF and H&H length action premium that we've been forced to pay for many years. Recently Remington addded the 375H&H to the SPS line ... why has it taken so long and why have we been paying almost $600 extra to see a 0.375cal barrel and H&H stamped on it when the Remington/Savage/Howa 'magnum' bolt faced actions are all H&H length??

The Ruger RSM in my opinion was brought to market as Bill Ruger wanted to see the 416 revived and selected the 416Rigby over the 416Taylor ... its a heavy action and way too expensive in 375H&H ... especially in Australia. If Ruger introduced the 505Gibbs and/or 500Jeffery ... then the RSM would have a purpose.

The Ruger cartridges also bring to market a lighter/trimmer package then has been seen before, its a good concept!
Cheers...
Con


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Der_Jaeger
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: Con]
      #124921 - 23/01/09 07:29 AM


I think we should all be happy that we have choices to make and there are plenty of them to suit anyone's preferences whether for bigger, slower, faster, longer, shorter.....we have them all. If the Ruger generates even more interest in big bore rifles because it's more appealing to fans of Ruger and shorter cartridges, then great. Maybe it'll lower the prices of the competitors who may lose a little market share. If you want to see a choked category, look at the world of .22's and .30's!

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Isopeura
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: Der_Jaeger]
      #124928 - 23/01/09 09:29 AM

My idea here is not to disregard .416 Ruger or .375 Ruger. They are good cartridges but they are not perfect (what is?). I think that there is no other logical reason to bring new "above .30" caliber cartridges than to reduce the number of rifle actions needed to house the big cartridges...

It would be interesting to see how well these cartridges are accepted among working men. I think that Ruger alone doesn't have enough international following to break through as "the rifle" for dangerous game and I seriously doubt that other manufacturers will chamber Ruger cartridges.

If you look at the action lengh alone, one might ask "why use .458 Lott when there is shorter and more efficient .458 Win around?". Reason is that Lott is more efficient in many ways. It operates with less pressure, it is easier to make feed properly and it delivers the needed power more easily. My point is this: why make a long action if it's not long enough? My idea of short action is .308 length action. Long action can house .375 H&H and such - just to remind, .375 H&H is originally built around Mauser 98. This one is certainly a standard lenght action by any measure. It is only Ruger that is suffering from this size issue as Winchester and Remington can both handle .375 in their "long" actions.


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Bramble
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: Der_Jaeger]
      #124932 - 23/01/09 10:59 AM

Balistics quite aside.

The way I see it is that you can fuck a pretty girl in a cheep motel,..Or you can fuck her on the satin sheets of a penthouse suite at the Park Lane Hilton.

At the end of the day pussy's pussy, but it is a hell of a classier ride.

Regards


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Ripp
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: Bramble]
      #124943 - 23/01/09 01:37 PM

Quote:

Balistics quite aside.

The way I see it is that you can fuck a pretty girl in a cheep motel,..Or you can fuck her on the satin sheets of a penthouse suite at the Park Lane Hilton.

At the end of the day pussy's pussy, but it is a hell of a classier ride.

Regards





Agree totally...my statements regarding the Rigby were "tongue in cheek"..no pun intended.. --



The Ruger RSM in my opinion was brought to market as Bill Ruger wanted to see the 416 revived and selected the 416Rigby over the 416Taylor ... its a heavy action and way too expensive in 375H&H ... especially in Australia. If Ruger introduced the 505Gibbs and/or 500Jeffery ... then the RSM would have a purpose. (quote)
+++++

As to the Rigby, if memory serves me correctly, Ruger started offering the Rigby after Remington come out with their own round...soon after you had Ruger offering the Rigby and Weatherby with their own 416 which come out shortly after the Remington as well...


Ripp

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9.3x57
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: Ripp]
      #124946 - 23/01/09 01:48 PM

Quote:

As to the Rigby, if memory serves me correctly, Ruger started offering the Rigby after Remington come out with their own round...soon after you had Ruger offering the Rigby and Weatherby with their own 416 which come out shortly after the Remington as well...




Yes.

Maybe a kneejerk on Ruger's part in hindsight as you say, the action required by the Rigby is a big one.

As for pure practicality regardless of action length, it is hard for me to see how the .416 Remington can be beat.

Having said that, the .416 Ruger looks like a sort-of .40 Adolph Express/Newton and is as such a great cartridge.

What is the mag capacity of .416 Remington vs. Ruger rounds?

The Remington version on a SAKO AV/III should hold 4 rounds like my .375 does. What about the .416 Ruger? Rigby Mausers are 3-in-mag, are they not?

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Ripp
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: 9.3x57]
      #124952 - 23/01/09 02:18 PM

On my 2 .416 Rem's one in Mauser type action other in Remington--on the Rem custom-- I put 1 in the pipe and 3 in the clip...

On the Ruger website it shows capacity of 3--in looking at the new Ruger's--one thing I do like is the short carbine type rifle which, for working close in on dangerous game..might be quite handy...

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Edited by Ripp (23/01/09 02:23 PM)


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Con
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: Ripp]
      #124956 - 23/01/09 03:37 PM

Quote:

As to the Rigby, if memory serves me correctly, Ruger started offering the Rigby after Remington come out with their own round...soon after you had Ruger offering the Rigby and Weatherby with their own 416 which come out shortly after the Remington as well...
Ripp




Ripp,
I think the surprise was that Remington brought the first American 416 rifle to the commercial market. Ruger had been implicated in 416's for awhile as had Winchester ... Ruger had looked at and chambered 416Taylors as per the articles written by Ken Waters. Allegedly the inability to get an ammunition manufacturer to follow stopped Ruger with the Taylor. Winchester had also looked at the 416Taylor and Ken Howell's creation ... the 416Howell. George Hoffman's 416Hoffman must have caught Remington's attention on the quiet. That they were the first was the biggest surprise I suppose.

The 416Ruger rifle I think will be quite popular as it's a great package as a whole ... dual crossbolts, open sights and semi-traditional looks, 416Rigby equivalent speeds, lighter and trimmer than a CZ ... neat idea.
Cheers...
Con


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Ripp
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: Con]
      #124974 - 24/01/09 12:53 AM

Quote:

Quote:


Ripp,
I think the surprise was that Remington brought the first American 416 rifle to the commercial market. Ruger had been implicated in 416's for awhile as had Winchester ... Ruger had looked at and chambered 416Taylors as per the articles written by Ken Waters. Allegedly the inability to get an ammunition manufacturer to follow stopped Ruger with the Taylor. Winchester had also looked at the 416Taylor and Ken Howell's creation ... the 416Howell. George Hoffman's 416Hoffman must have caught Remington's attention on the quiet. That they were the first was the biggest surprise I suppose.

The 416Ruger rifle I think will be quite popular as it's a great package as a whole ... dual crossbolts, open sights and semi-traditional looks, 416Rigby equivalent speeds, lighter and trimmer than a CZ ... neat idea.
Cheers...
Con




Agree--it did take the industry by surprise with Remington introducing the .416..as for myself, really glad they did..like that one quite a bit..but like several others as well...375, 458, Ultra-mags, 204, 220 swift, 257 Weatherby,..etc.....

As for the .416, really do feel it will be a winner early on..ready an article by another magazine where the author restocked it as he was not happy with the "sticky" feel of the current Hogue factory one..think I would probably do the same thing along with changing out the safety --too small and unhandy in my opinion...but overall, think it will be a very handy close range weapon..

Take care

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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bigmaxx
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: Der_Jaeger]
      #124992 - 24/01/09 03:52 AM

The new Ruger gets my approval too. I took two Rugers to Zimbabwe last year and they performed exceptionally well. I also like the affordability factor. My Hawkeye African was under 800.00 new. I love the old time tested calibers, but I would rather spend my money hunting rather than purchasing overpriced rifles. Dont get me wrong, if I could afford them I would have Rigby Doubles and Holland and Hollands. I cant afford them so I hunt. The choice is a no brainer for me.

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Ripp
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: bigmaxx]
      #125018 - 24/01/09 12:36 PM

Quote:

The new Ruger gets my approval too. I took two Rugers to Zimbabwe last year and they performed exceptionally well. I also like the affordability factor. My Hawkeye African was under 800.00 new. I love the old time tested calibers, but I would rather spend my money hunting rather than purchasing overpriced rifles. Dont get me wrong, if I could afford them I would have Rigby Doubles and Holland and Hollands. I cant afford them so I hunt. The choice is a no brainer for me.





Think most that have hunted Africa would agree with your statement...

While in the middle of the thick stuff..its the thrill of being within mere feet of DG that does it for me...and quite frankly, not a whole lot comes remotely close...well, there's that one.. ...but other than that...

I do agree there is that romance of carrying an old double or nostalgic caliber rifle...but if it's a choice between going hunting or getting a new gun...I'll take the hunting...

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Blank
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: Ripp]
      #125171 - 26/01/09 04:10 PM

Just returned from Reno and had several of my questions answered by the people in the know. I talked with Hornady reps about the dies and was disappoinjted. He called back to the factory for me while I waited, and they have not started tooling up for the 416 dies yet. Anticipated time frame is two months until available. Great time talking with them.

Talked to RCBS and they told me that by the time Hornady produces theirs, then they get thru the legal wrangling and permission it would be 6-8 months for them to follow, and be in the custom line at first..


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Ripp
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: Blank]
      #125180 - 27/01/09 12:29 AM

Quote:

Anticipated time frame is two months until available. Great time talking with them.

Talked to RCBS and they told me that by the time Hornady produces theirs, then they get thru the legal wrangling and permission it would be 6-8 months for them to follow, and be in the custom line at first..





Which, when translating to the gun industry will be 4 months for Hornady and a year for RCBS...

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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SharpsNitro
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: Blank]
      #125190 - 27/01/09 03:25 AM

Quote:

Just returned from Reno and had several of my questions answered by the people in the know. I talked with Hornady reps about the dies and was disappoinjted. He called back to the factory for me while I waited, and they have not started tooling up for the 416 dies yet. Anticipated time frame is two months until available. Great time talking with them.

Talked to RCBS and they told me that by the time Hornady produces theirs, then they get thru the legal wrangling and permission it would be 6-8 months for them to follow, and be in the custom line at first..




I know how you feel. I picked up a 500NE at the show in Vegas and now need dies for it. Hornady won't have theirs out until at least April so I had to go with RCBS, the custom ones instead of the "new" safari line, if I want to shoot it anytime soon.


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Con
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: SharpsNitro]
      #125198 - 27/01/09 07:32 AM

That's a ridiculous scenario, rifles and factory ammunition available but no dies. It almost begs to have 3 fired cases sent to Hornady with instructions to cut a set of custom dies ... that's just a 60day wait.
Cheers...
Con


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DarylS
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: Con]
      #125204 - 27/01/09 08:53 AM

Lee or Hornady custom dies made from your brass are something like $100.00. That's not only cheaper than RCBS but the dies will be straight. I've had a falling-out with big Green and their standard of over-sizing brass and relying on the expander button to open them up for a bullet. All of my green-box dies oversize the brass. When you send 3 fired cases, they should be able to make dies that size the necks only enough to hold a bullet - no more. Yes, I know the others oversize the necks too, but they do it less than big Green. RCBS ticks me badly. Most of the green box dies I have accumulated over the years are not concentric from the bodies to the neck portion. Take a straight case (proven) and size it without the expander button in the die, they come out crooked in the neck. We hates it. I am slowly changing all my dies over to Lee or Hornady. I do like the collet dies for my varmint rounds.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Con
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: DarylS]
      #125215 - 27/01/09 01:38 PM

Daryl,
Hornady dies were US$130 (upto 2.5" case length) a few months back, I've since heard they've adjusted prices upwards. I still think its ridiculous that they'd develop the cartridge and have no dies ready to roll once the rifles hit the market. I can only guess they want a shot at recouping costs through factory ammunition sale.
Cheers...
Con


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Ripp
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: DarylS]
      #125227 - 27/01/09 11:19 PM

Quote:

Most of the green box dies I have accumulated over the years are not concentric from the bodies to the neck portion. Take a straight case (proven) and size it without the expander button in the die, they come out crooked in the neck. We hates it. I am slowly changing all my dies over to Lee or Hornady. I do like the collet dies for my varmint rounds.





Agree with the above statemnt--have noticed the same in mine--now on the ones I want to be really accurate getting competition seating dies as well as differnt name brand dies..upset me in all the money I have invested in RCBS...but what is one too do...

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Con
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: Ripp]
      #125250 - 28/01/09 07:45 AM

Guys,
Out of interest, it was mentioned Hornady may be running 500NE dies? Why??

Is there a Ruger No1 in 500NE in the planning?
Cheers...
Con


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SharpsNitro
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: Con]
      #125251 - 28/01/09 08:08 AM

They are adding the 404 Jeffery and 470 and 500 NE to their ammunition catalog this year. Dies are on the way as well. Should provide some needed price competition into the market.

http://www.hornady.com/story.php?s=791


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Ripp
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: SharpsNitro]
      #125265 - 28/01/09 01:00 PM

Quote:

They are adding the 404 Jeffery and 470 and 500 NE to their ammunition catalog this year. Dies are on the way as well. Should provide some needed price competition into the market.

http://www.hornady.com/story.php?s=791





saw some prices on the Hornady ammo--it is currently about half of what Federal (the robbers) are currently charging.. seriously, what a bunch of BS...they sell .470 ammo in 2006 or there abouts, for $179 per box--thx it goes to $279 the next year and $379 the following year...GREED is the explanation...of course, IMHO...

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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SharpsNitro
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: Ripp]
      #125268 - 28/01/09 01:14 PM

Quote:

Quote:

They are adding the 404 Jeffery and 470 and 500 NE to their ammunition catalog this year. Dies are on the way as well. Should provide some needed price competition into the market.

http://www.hornady.com/story.php?s=791





saw some prices on the Hornady ammo--it is currently about half of what Federal (the robbers) are currently charging.. seriously, what a bunch of BS...they sell .470 ammo in 2006 or there abouts, for $179 per box--thx it goes to $279 the next year and $379 the following year...GREED is the explanation...of course, IMHO...

Ripp




The price of factory ammo certainly made the price of the RCBS dies easier to take. Until the Hornady ammo hits the street I paid the same price for the dies as 20 rounds of A-Square ammo would cost me. If I didn't load all of my own ammo I would probably never buy a DR, at least in the big NE cartridges, due to the cost of feeding them.


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Con
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: SharpsNitro]
      #125271 - 28/01/09 01:17 PM

Ripp,
I think your explanation was perfect! GREED.
Cheers...
Con


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SharpsNitro
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: Con]
      #125273 - 28/01/09 01:27 PM

Quote:

Ripp,
I think your explanation was perfect! GREED.
Cheers...
Con




Just playing "Devil's Advocate," how many rounds of these calibers are sold per year? I'm guessing there are enough sold that Hornady thinks they can grab a big chunk of the market, and make money doing it, with their pricing. I wish them luck.


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Der_Jaeger
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: SharpsNitro]
      #125301 - 28/01/09 10:09 PM



Maybe the ammo industry is already being "Obamafied" with it's ridiculously increased prices. Maybe Federal was promised major kick-backs from the Osama administration for doing so.

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Ripp
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: Der_Jaeger]
      #125311 - 29/01/09 12:53 AM

Quote:



Maybe the ammo industry is already being "Obamafied" with it's ridiculously increased prices. Maybe Federal was promised major kick-backs from the Osama administration for doing so.





Possible, but unlikely as the prices had taken these increases before anyone really knew who Obama was--with the exception of the Chicago maufia and known terrorists of course...


Think it is simply, Federal felt as though individuals that purchase doubles and travel to Africa are willing to throw big money after a box of ammo..probably think the average "executive" either doesn't have the knowledge, time, or both to roll their own..therefore will have to buy at the ridiculous high prices...

As to how many they sold--no idea, but as stated, apparently Hornady feels it is enough to be worth the effort of tooling up to do so...and at HALF THE PRICE...good for them...hope they take over the market...

Ripp

--------------------
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9.3x57
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: Ripp]
      #125317 - 29/01/09 01:36 AM

I think it is the Last Gasp of Capitalism and as far as I'm concerned think they should charge whatever the market will bear.

Once Barney Frank and the Democrats extend the New Squeal efficiencies to the ammo industry, all ammo produced in the USA is going be standardized to look like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Jelly_Vibrator.jpg

Such ammunition is easy to chamber but has poor long-range ballistic properties.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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Ripp
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: 9.3x57]
      #125320 - 29/01/09 02:41 AM

Quote:

I think it is the Last Gasp of Capitalism and as far as I'm concerned think they should charge whatever the market will bear.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Jelly_Vibrator.jpg

Such ammunition is easy to chamber but has poor long-range ballistic properties.





As to Federal--apparently the market was not bearing it well based on the responses I see here..


As to the new Barney Frank ammo...looks like it was designed for a "smooth bore"...

You keep this up and your going to hurt someone's feelings....

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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9.3x57
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: Ripp]
      #125322 - 29/01/09 03:03 AM

Sorry for the post.

In bad taste to be sure...

But seriously meant to make the point that I have read of some interest by the Left in the past to lump all "big bores" in with .50 BMG, etc as a class of weapons "with no sporting purpose".

Gotta wonder...

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