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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Paradox and Bore Guns
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Yogi000
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Loc: New York, USA
4 Bore ROUND BALL
      #117535 - 24/10/08 01:57 AM

I just built a 4 bore flintlock blunderbuss muzzle loader. Does anyone have any idea where I can get lead round balls in the .959" to 1.0" diameter??? I do not want a mold and have to pour these I want to buy them already made. Thank you!

BTW---This four bore is a blast to shoot. I loaded it up with twenty-five 38 calimber round balls over 100 grains of 3F black powder. WOW!

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DarylS
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Re: 4 Bore ROUND BALL [Re: Yogi000]
      #117537 - 24/10/08 02:07 AM

Sounds like a good load, Yogi, but a bit soft for a 4 bore. The powder charge you note is about right for a 10 bore, although your 'shot' load is around 1,700gr. weight.

Sorry, can't help with balls. When Taylor built a 4 bore underhammer gun for a chap, we made the first mould by grinding a spade drill into a heli shape, then bored two pieces of hard maple 1/2 ball depth with it, thus making a mould. It lasted for a dozen balls for testing. 1" Aluminum plate could be bored using the same tool to make a quickie mould. Vice grips can be used clamp it together, aligning up the corners to square the holes.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Huvius
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Re: 4 Bore ROUND BALL [Re: DarylS]
      #117541 - 24/10/08 03:06 AM

I know you don't want to cast yourself, but this fishing mold is reasonabe.
I suspect you could cast them without the brass eyelet and trim them up.
4oz. ball should be 4 bore, right? Anybody out there try this?
http://www.srmo.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=D3185&Store_Code=srmo

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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Yogi000
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Re: 4 Bore ROUND BALL [Re: Huvius]
      #117550 - 24/10/08 04:55 AM

Daryl---yea, it might be LIGHT for experienced guys like you! For me it was quite a charge! Hahahaha! Knocked pretty good.

I will try to keep the projectile weight to 4 ounces or less from now on. And yes I will slowly increase the powder charge. I think I will go to 2F powder as well, that 3F is hot for that big-O 4 bore.

I found a fishing store online that has 4 OZ (1 inch Diameter) canon ball sinker weights for 52 cents each, minimum 10 pound order, so it looks like I will need to go that route. $10 for shipping. Reasonable to test.

BTW---Four ounces of #4 shot is about 600 Pellets! Quite a TURKEY LOAD! hahaha

Edited by Yogi000 (24/10/08 05:02 AM)

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Omnivorous_Bob
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Re: 4 Bore ROUND BALL [Re: Yogi000]
      #117693 - 26/10/08 01:01 PM

Yogi, if the sinkers don't work out I've got about 150 1.025" and a few dozen 1.000" balls in the garage (along with about 250 other various 4-bore bullets-you can never be too prepared!). I can throw some in a flat rate postal box if it will help your efforts.

But more importantly, post some pictures! I (and I'm sure most here) would love to see what you've built along with targets, load etc. I think flintlocks are the classiest of guns.

Bob

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DarylS
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Re: 4 Bore ROUND BALL [Re: Omnivorous_Bob]
      #117731 - 27/10/08 12:28 PM

Yes- pictures!

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Yogi000
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Re: 4 Bore ROUND BALL [Re: DarylS]
      #117751 - 28/10/08 12:47 AM

I will definitely post pictures as soon as the stain and finish is complete and the blunderbuss is re-assembled. I am pretty happy with the color and need to inspect it one last time carefully, then if all is good I start the tung oil applications: About 14-18 coats so this pahse takes about a week to 10 days. Then pumice and rottenstone to get the right sheen.

Thank you for the 1.0 Round ball offer! If the sinkers do not work out I will contact you.

I pondered a good 2 months trying to decide what caliber and also searhced for gun parts to build my blunderbuss. Although it cost 50% more to build this 4 bore compared to the 11 and 10 bore blunderbuss kits available, I am really glad I went all the way to quarter pound ball thrower. I have already had a ball shooting it and hope to shoot alot of pellets and round balls out of this 4 Bore.

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DarylS
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Re: 4 Bore ROUND BALL [Re: Yogi000]
      #117759 - 28/10/08 03:47 AM

Please think of the 4 bore as being maximum. I can pretty much guarantee you wouldn't like shooting a 2 bore from the shoulder. Do shoot it, but in moderation as well. Francis Selous once said he wished he'd never used the 4 bore singles on elephant. He said they destroyed his 'fine' shooting capability for the rest of his life.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Yogi000
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Re: 4 Bore ROUND BALL [Re: DarylS]
      #117817 - 29/10/08 03:38 AM

Daryl--- As always you provide sound gun advice. I was very concerned the gun may be too much which is why I sought advice from guys who had them and also as soon as I finished the mechanics of the gun (pre stock finishing) I assembled the gun and put some test loads in her. Since there are no Elephants or Rhinos in Upstate Nwew York and since I do not need elephant gun loads, I am keeping this gun primarily as a turkey gun AND for entertaining old men and kids alike. So that means some #4 shot loads and when I do shoot a round ball it is to make a massive hole in a dangerous game paper target. So, I will keep the powder charge at around 80 to 100 Grains. Just no reason to go higher than that. So no reason to punch my shoulders like a "320 to 350 grain 4 BORE Elephant Load" would punch. My 20 inch barreled blunderbuss is, furthermore, too light in weight to handle much above 100 grains of powder with a quarter pound of shot weight. Clearly the only direction to go is---up in powder charge and DOWN in shot weight. It makes no sense to shoot 1500 #4 pellets at a turkey!!! hahahaha. Until I chrono the actual speeds I do not know if I'd ever use this blunderbuss to shoot game with it using a solid round ball, my inclination is "no".

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DarylS
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Re: 4 Bore ROUND BALL [Re: Yogi000]
      #117847 - 29/10/08 10:59 AM

Say - you might be pleasantly surprised to see what a mere 2 ounces of shot will do, pattern wise. At time's less is better than more. I have a friend who has a 6 bore double. He shoots only 1 1/2oz and 2 oz. loads in it and busts clays with monotonous repeatability.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Omnivorous_Bob
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Re: 4 Bore ROUND BALL [Re: DarylS]
      #117859 - 29/10/08 04:16 PM

Yogi, 220 grain of FFg give me just over 1000fps with a 1500gn 1.0" ball in my cartridge gun and is mild, so I imagine +-100 grains will be a blast. Top end is around 1400, but I always load several smokeless roundballs at 700fps when I go to the range in order to do exactly what you said, put big holes in stuff! It kicks no more than a 30-06, kids can shoot it, no one drops the gun, and everyone loves to see big holes in their targets. Fun all the way around.

Bob

--------------------
"If we're not supposed to eat animals, how come they're made out of meat?"

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Yogi000
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Re: 4 Bore ROUND BALL [Re: Omnivorous_Bob]
      #117888 - 30/10/08 01:30 AM

Bob and Daryl and All---Yes, indeed!

First, 1500 #4 pellets or FOUR OUNCES is just ridiculous to go going "A" Turkey with. And I agree I would get a much better pattern with +-2 ounces.

Second, regarding 220 grains of 2F Black Powder pushing a 4 ounce one inch diameter round ball: Wow! I just can't imagine the kick in this short, light weight blunderbuss! But, once I get her back together, I intend to go back to 100 grain 2F BP load pushing 4 ounces of payload and slowly work up to see what my max comfort place is.

However, Mike Lea, the builder I bought the stock and most of the 4 bore hardware from swears that 80 grains of BP is where I want to be with SHOT.

My son is visiting at Thanksgiving. He was away for 2 years in the US Peace Corp... He and I always shot guns at targets together. He is a fantastic shot! I got him his first BB gun at TEN and his mother (whom I had divorced aleady) was livid about those BB guns. I kept that at my house. He is anxious to try the 4 Bore blunderbuss out and I am anxious to have it ready for us to share that day.... Man, I love Father and Son stuff, and for some reason when it might piss the X off, it is somehow even better!!! hahaha

I also intend to have some great "devastation making" shot load and two levels of round ball load levels figured out.

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bigdog
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Re: 4 Bore ROUND BALL [Re: Yogi000]
      #117926 - 30/10/08 10:34 AM

Yogi000'
How much does you 4 bore weigh?? It sounds great, we all certainly want to see pictures as soon as possible. These big boys keep the blood flowing quickly and make the old heart beat a little faster, at least for all of us big bore nuts.

--------------------
Kyle, I love you buddy, Dad

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Yogi000
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Re: 4 Bore ROUND BALL [Re: bigdog]
      #117958 - 30/10/08 11:54 PM

bigdog---well the gun is in pieces now. All the metal parts are at home and the stock is with me at work so i can get more coats of tung oil on it faster. I will need to weight what I have here and then weigh the metal parts with my new home scale. But my guess is about 9.5 to 10.5 pounds. That Blunderbuss barrel is pretty beefy but it is ONLY 20 inches long. My 50-90 double rifle weighs about 9.5 pounds and I can tell you that the hot loads for that gun with 525 grainer Woodleigh round nosed boolits are quite formidable. I got the first coat of Tung on the stock yesterday but the humidity was up and it is still tacky so I will net get that second coat on this AM as I hoped. But I finally got the deep dark rich red colour I wanted. I am feeling like I am rounding the last corner on this build. But as they say you can't count your blunderbusses until they are 100%. Done. haha

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bigdog
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Re: 4 Bore ROUND BALL [Re: Yogi000]
      #117981 - 31/10/08 04:10 AM

That is really light for a 4 bore! No wonder you want to keep the powder down to 100-130 grains. Are you saying 10.5 lbs total for the whole gun??

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Kyle, I love you buddy, Dad

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Yogi000
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Re: 4 Bore ROUND BALL [Re: bigdog]
      #117985 - 31/10/08 05:10 AM

bigdog---well I am guessing right now, since the gun is apart and in two places but yeah, about 10.5 pounds and yes I agree that is why I do not want to shoot real heavy loads in it. The thing is, it is a flintlock blunderbuss...

I will not use this to hunt elephants or rhinos, or even small dinosaurs. I will use it for Turkey. Maybe a hog, (although I think I prefer my double barrel 50-90 better for that fair). And the blunderbuss is to entertain myself and for making people laugh when I shoot it at targets or clays or at rondies. Sure, do I plan on shooting big-o round balls out of it? Yup. But I will not over do the powder charge just so I can approach elephant gun 4 bores.

And yes I am thinking 130 grains of real black powder under a 4 ounce round ball may be my limit with this Blunderbuss... But I will know soon. That I can guarantee!!! and I can't wait to get it back together and do my loading!

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bigdog
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Re: 4 Bore ROUND BALL [Re: Yogi000]
      #117998 - 31/10/08 10:37 AM

Good luck, sounds like fun. Keep us posted.

--------------------
Kyle, I love you buddy, Dad

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jaz
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Re: 4 Bore ROUND BALL [Re: bigdog]
      #118007 - 31/10/08 01:32 PM

"A four ounce round ball and 130 grains of black????" Very interesting.
JAZ

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Yogi000
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Re: 4 Bore ROUND BALL [Re: jaz]
      #118035 - 31/10/08 11:57 PM

Jaz--- The recommended load for this 4 bore blunderbuss from the people I bought it from is:

100 Grains Black Powder 1 or 2F
1/8 inch thick 4 bore Wad (very tight fit)
4 Ounces of Shot (#4's or whatever is game appropriate)
Overshot Card

I can tell you that that load is devastating.

If it is #4 shot that corresponds to about 1500 Pellets!

If 38 caliber, as I used, that is about 21 Pellets! (I also loaded it up once with 4.5 ounces of 38 cals, so it was 25 Pellets. Wow! What a HOOT!)

Essentially, though, I am just replacing the recommended SHOT Weight of 4 ounces with a single round ball.

And since this IS a blunderbuss we are talking a short range gun. It is really a 50 feet or less gun. As I think I mentioned I always wanted a Blunderbuss. I know it is NOT an Elephant gun or a dangerous game gun as MUCH as it is entertainment and short range devastation. And yes it is very commanding for the purpose it is intended!

Edited by Yogi000 (01/11/08 12:04 AM)

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DarylS
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Re: 4 Bore ROUND BALL [Re: Yogi000]
      #118061 - 01/11/08 03:33 AM

The shot load would be devestating on game only as long as it was producing at least 800fps at the muzzle, more would be better. Typical 410 shtoguns through to 10 bores produce 1,100fps through 1,350fps with lead shot loads. I wonder what the 4 bore was getting? Chrongraphing might be intersting- protection for the screen holders might be in order.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Yogi000
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Re: 4 Bore ROUND BALL [Re: DarylS]
      #118065 - 01/11/08 04:03 AM

Daryl--- Exactly. I plan to chrono the loads (both shot and round ball) BEFORE I ever thinking of using this Blunderbuss on GAME.

I am also excited about chrono-ing the 2F verses 3F Black Powder Loads to see if all that I read is TRUE or FALSE! hahahaha

I am going for 1100 FPS muzzle minimum.

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rigbymauser
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Re: 4 Bore ROUND BALL [Re: Yogi000]
      #118103 - 01/11/08 10:11 PM

Quote:

Daryl--- Exactly. I plan to chrono the loads (both shot and round ball) BEFORE I ever thinking of using this Blunderbuss on GAME.

I am also excited about chrono-ing the 2F verses 3F Black Powder Loads to see if all that I read is TRUE or FALSE! hahahaha

I am going for 1100 FPS muzzle minimum.



Really no need to... IF you drop ..they will drop too..

Edited by rigbymauser (01/11/08 10:11 PM)

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Yogi000
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Re: 4 Bore ROUND BALL [Re: rigbymauser]
      #118324 - 05/11/08 03:27 AM

Well I got my quarter pound round balls in. They are a tad too large. My bore measures 1.05" and the pure lead round balls are rough cast and measure 1.05" PLUS.

Anyone have any ideas of how to shave off a little skin evenly on these pure lead round balls??

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450_366
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Re: 4 Bore ROUND BALL [Re: Yogi000]
      #118336 - 05/11/08 09:14 AM

Perhaps some sandingpaper glued inside the walls of a rcbs sidewinder

But seriusly its sound as a lot of fun so some pictures would be mandatory.

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

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DarylS
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Re: 4 Bore ROUND BALL [Re: 450_366]
      #118359 - 06/11/08 03:02 AM

The only method I can think of to reduce the lead balls would to be roll them between 2 steel plates in a single direction. This will turn them into slightly elongated balls. A minimum of 3 proper sized ball bearings will stop the plates once they've reduced the lead balls to the ball bearing's size.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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