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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Paradox and Bore Guns
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Yogi000
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Loc: New York, USA
Re: 4 Bore ROUND BALL [Re: DarylS]
      #118513 - 08/11/08 01:40 AM

I have taken pictures of my FOUR BORE Blunderbuss but I must be challenged because I cannot figure out how to post them here. If someone will send me their email and if THEY could post them that would be terrific! Thanks!

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DarylS
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Re: 4 Bore ROUND BALL [Re: Yogi000]
      #118547 - 08/11/08 12:08 PM

Here are the pictures of Yogi000's 4 bore Blunderbuss. Althought the muzzle looks pretty thin, it's spread. Now, it's either bores like that, meaning the true bore is thicker further back where it becomes a real 4 bore, or it's been swaged to that muzzle size and the barrel really is thin. Regardless, it is plenty strong enough for any load likely to be put through it. You'd need upwards of 450gr. of powder just to get pressures up to around 8,000PSi and that's unlikely, isn't it. The Big Bores truely are low pressure guns.
: Tks for sending me the pictures. I needed them for my file, Yogi!





--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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tinkerModerator
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Re: 4 Bore ROUND BALL [Re: DarylS]
      #118549 - 08/11/08 12:49 PM

That thing is just bad and wrong.

Yogi, you need counseling!







--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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Omnivorous_Bob
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Re: 4 Bore ROUND BALL [Re: tinker]
      #118638 - 10/11/08 02:34 PM

Yogi, Nice looking gun! I'd love to see how that thing patterns with 38 cal (!!!) "shot". PM me your address and I'll send some 1.025" roundballs.
Bob

--------------------
"If we're not supposed to eat animals, how come they're made out of meat?"

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Yogi000
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Re: 4 Bore ROUND BALL [Re: Omnivorous_Bob]
      #119040 - 18/11/08 04:12 AM

I swear, every home needs one of these Blunderbuss!

It is a HOOT and a HALF!

Next time I get a fresh BIG pieces of cardboard I will re shoot those 38 cal round ball loads in this thing and send the pictures in here so you can see the 'pattern' at 10 and 15 yards.

I will also shoot a 4 ounce load of #8 shot from close range so you can see the massive hole created from 1600 pellets from close range.

So far I have maxed out at 160 grains of 2F Black Powder under 4 ounces of shot in this gun. I will need a pad for my shoulder to shoot a hotter load than that.

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Yogi000
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Re: 4 Bore ROUND BALL [Re: Yogi000]
      #119448 - 25/11/08 05:26 AM

Bob---

The 1.0" and 1.025" round balls arrived. Thank you!!! and both fit the barrel. Now I just need to find the right patch.

I will also try to find another BIG sheet of cardboard and get a pattern shot of it with the 38 caliber round balls an post pictures of it so you can see.

My son is coming in for Thanksgiving so I am thinking Friday or Saturday we should be able to play with this 4 bore and make some holes with it after we do the obligatory family stuff on Thursday.

Thanks again for the round balls. I now can shoot some when my son gets here in a couple of days. I truly appreciate your generosity, Bob.

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DarylS
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Re: 4 Bore ROUND BALL [Re: Yogi000]
      #119470 - 25/11/08 12:34 PM

An interesting and quite thought provoking target is made using a full sized ball and several 'shot'. In the 4 bore, I suggest a single 1" ball plus 3 or 4 .54 cvalibre balls. You might put in normal buck, but they are tiny in comparrison to the big one. It's best to have larger 'secondary' holes. Subbing .50 cal. balls makes them at about 175gr. per 'extra' ball. .54's run around 220gr. each.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Yogi000
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Re: 4 Bore ROUND BALL [Re: DarylS]
      #119505 - 26/11/08 05:13 AM

daryl--- yea I can 'steal' some round balls from my 54 cal Lyman Flintlock. I am thinking of starting with 140 grains of 2F black (since I do not have 1F Black) underneath a 1.025" round ball. Then try a buck and ball with 3 .530" added over the round ball.

I can't wait to shoot it again. With the sun setting so early it is dark by the time I get home these days so shooting is now relegated to weekends and holidays.

I do plan I seeing how much powder I can get under these 1.025" round balls and be comfortable shooting it enough to shoot a few. I am also curious to see what accuracy I can get. One thing for sure---with thise massive quarter pound round balls I will not need binoculars or spotting scope to see where I hit!!! hahahaaaaaaaaaaaa

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Omnivorous_Bob
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Re: 4 Bore ROUND BALL [Re: Yogi000]
      #119542 - 26/11/08 05:19 PM

Daryl, I've got no experience at all with buck-and-ball loads so this may be a dumb question, but I wonder if there is the possibility of the smaller balls "jamming" or wedging to obstruct the larger one? I guess it might depend on the combination of sizes, or is it a non-issue?

Yogi, I'm glad to help in a small way and hope you and your son have a hoot. What better way to celebrate Thanksgiving than eating turkey and shooting a blunderbuss. Very appropriate!

Bob

--------------------
"If we're not supposed to eat animals, how come they're made out of meat?"

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Yogi000
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Re: 4 Bore ROUND BALL [Re: Omnivorous_Bob]
      #119562 - 27/11/08 02:49 AM

Bob---

Yes. And thanks again for your thoughtful actions.

I learned some time ago, when I lived near Plymouth MA., the first Thanksgiving main faire was LOBSTER, not Turkey. Although at some point early on (and just how many years later early on was I do not know) but it appears Turkey did make it on the scene. I just think it is fascinating how so many facts get changed, like the ride of Paul Revere. John Daws did the ride, Paul Revere did almost nothing. Paul Revere was also a thief of art and innovations. He gets so much credit for things OTHER PEOPLE did. Just like the Turley stole the place that the LOBSTER actually had on the first Pilgrim dinner table too. But since I have a Blunderbuss and not a speargun I guess my son and I will stick with TURKEY hunting... hahaha

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DarylS
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Re: 4 Bore ROUND BALL [Re: Yogi000]
      #119563 - 27/11/08 03:00 AM

Buck and Ball loaded ctgs.(paper) were used by the US military up until about 1850 for their .69's in a ratio of 3:1 or 4:1 over single ball loads. These were made up in paper ctgs., with the buck shot over the large ball.
There is no wedging problem. I've tried them in my bro's 1728 Bess as well as in the pistols mentioned (.54 rifled and .58 cal. smoothbore. They are quite 'special' at close range.
The US military used them to increase the 'hits' on the enemy, even though the buck-shot 'hits' were only wounding hits at longer ranges.

In the 1960's, multi-bullet loads were developed for the .223's (& .308's) to 'attempt' to increase the 'hits' of the then-current soldiers. These apparently weren't very successful as they seem to have 'gone by the board' - or have they?

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Yogi000
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Re: 4 Bore ROUND BALL [Re: DarylS]
      #119566 - 27/11/08 03:36 AM

"Buck and Ball" might be more accurately conveyed if it was "Ball and Buck" since the ball goes in first and the buck on top. For dangerous game it would be the most confident load especially in low light or night time conditions. Or if you hear something go bump in the night the gun loaded with "ball and buck" would be my "go to" gun.

I like the idea of something like five 54 caliber round balls and twelve 38 caliber round balls in this blunderbuss as well.

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Yogi000
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Re: 4 Bore ROUND BALL [Re: Yogi000]
      #120019 - 02/12/08 06:29 AM

I shot the 1.025 round balls in my blunderbuss this Holiday. Over 140 grains of FFg. They worked well. I did not chrono the load but it seemed like they would definitely be lethal at under 40 yards. I was wearing a watchman's cloak (heavy wool cape) when I was shooting and the first shot pushed me pretty hard, hard enough I needed to take a step back, well I was in tall grass and somehow I ended up stepping onto the cape itself, which pulled me down, rather than damaging the cape I just sort of went with it and ended up falling down backwards which made it seem the recoil literally knocked me over. It was pretty funny. The audience seemed to like it. hahaha

We also shot 4 ounces of number 8 shot over 140 grains of black powder. At about 18 yards I would say any bird in a 6 foot diameter circle would be dead. The pattern was dense out to that distance.

This 4 gauge Blunderbuss is a bucket of fun. Everyone home should have one of these!

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Yogi000
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Re: 4 Bore ROUND BALL [Re: Yogi000]
      #121509 - 19/12/08 01:43 AM

Did I tell you guys---this blunderbuss only weighs 8 and 1/2 pounds! That is why a heavy dram load of Black Powder is alot of recoil. Right now I am up to 6.6 DRAMS (or 180 grains of Black) under a 1600 grain round ball. ....ah...Impressive kick.

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DarylS
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Re: 4 Bore ROUND BALL [Re: Yogi000]
      #121527 - 19/12/08 09:47 AM

Yogi000 - that would have been hilarious to watch, that's for sure. Can you imagine how that #8 shot load would be on pass shooting teal over decoys? Gives 'flock' shooting a whole new meaning. I once killed 27 snipe with one shot from a 10 bore, using a spreader load with 2 oz. 8 1/2's. Your 4 bore would make that look like a .410 pattern!

You might be right - I do think I need one of those. It will sure bring some stares in 'bear' camp when I tell Ela (cook) that's what I'm going to protect her kids and her with. Perhaps a double flint blunderbus with a bit less 'trumpet? Now THAT sounds liek a fun project.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Yogi000
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Re: 4 Bore ROUND BALL [Re: DarylS]
      #121580 - 20/12/08 01:02 AM

Well there are some double four bores out there although a bit rich for my purse right now. I wish the barrels that Rayle makes weren't so thin at the muzzle, I found some rounded, thicker barrels but the biggest they made them to was 10 gauge.

I do intend to pattern the 4 oz of number eights and the 21 or so thirty eight caliber loads again in this blumnderbuss. It would definitely make a stout camp cook and family protection gun.

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DarylS
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Re: 4 Bore ROUND BALL [Re: Yogi000]
      #121592 - 20/12/08 04:54 AM

I was thinking round ball only. Shot won't stop the grizzlies - unless they're .60" or larger. I prefer MUCH larger.

Oh well, I guess a 10 bore double would have to suffice.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Yogi000
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Re: 4 Bore ROUND BALL [Re: DarylS]
      #122667 - 31/12/08 07:19 AM

True about those grizzlies. If I was in Grizzly country I'd have a ball and shot in this blunderbuss for around camp but more than likely a double.

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themadhatter
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Re: 4 Bore ROUND BALL [Re: Yogi000]
      #126533 - 10/02/09 02:05 PM

that thing is awesome but i would have made a bigger one

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Yogi000
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Re: 4 Bore ROUND BALL [Re: themadhatter]
      #127557 - 20/02/09 02:00 AM

2 Bore?

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DarylS
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Re: 4 Bore ROUND BALL [Re: Yogi000]
      #127559 - 20/02/09 02:36 AM

Not many men can stand up to a 4 bore with normal hunting charges - and then, are likely to develop a flinch that will never leave. This happened to Selous who used single barreled 4 bore Dutch smoothbore fowlers, cut shorter, for his elephant killing. Full charge, 16 drams - figure it out, 1 dram is a 16th of an ounce - 16 drams ia full ounce.

WW Greener broke his recoil machine with a 14 dram load, 382gr. The machine registered up to 200 pounds recoil and the lighter 14 dram load was enough over that, that the machine broke. A .458 WM comes back at about 56 pounds in a 9 1/2 pound gun, while a .460 WTBY is around 85 pounds, both with factory loads.

No wonder Selous developed a flinch.

Can't imagine shooting a 2 bore (1.35") rifle or smoothbore, even with a light 300gr. load. We have a reduced bore cannon, with a 1.5" bore. We shoot patched 1.4" WW balls with 300 to as much as 800gr. of powder from it. Even the 300gr. charge gets supersonic and rolls the 600 pound gun back on it's wheels. We put 6 or 7 into a 6" circle at 100 meters with it, winning the cannon shoot at helfey Creek Rondy last August. We're just getting to know the gun and are developing good loads for it.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Yogi000
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Re: 4 Bore ROUND BALL [Re: DarylS]
      #127564 - 20/02/09 03:51 AM

When I get rich again I intend to get three more doubles:

a 470
a 10 bore
a 4 bore

All doubles!

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DarylS
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Re: 4 Bore ROUND BALL [Re: Yogi000]
      #127578 - 20/02/09 09:20 AM

Yeah - a nice 10 bore double would be nice indeed - for all the hunting I'll ever do - no need for the other 2 - HA!

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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empirevr
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Re: 4 Bore ROUND BALL [Re: DarylS]
      #127592 - 20/02/09 05:43 PM

........Rich again Yogi? I sort of know how that feels.......sheesh.

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Yogi000
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Re: 4 Bore ROUND BALL [Re: empirevr]
      #127614 - 21/02/09 01:31 AM

Daryl---

Yes I guess the 4 bore double is mostly for OUTLANDISH fun, not so much for actual hunting unless I wanted to hunt a Rhino. I have been drooling over a Merkel 470 side by side for so many years now that I keep that on the wish list just to stop the drool.

However, yes a 10 bore double would be truly awesome, loaded way down or loaded hot and heavy and hard it could take virtually any animal on the planet.

Empire--Yes I was pretty wealthy at one time before I had it all stolen by a white collar conman who aside from being brilliant was also protected by the gov. Not the same theft of wealth that is going on now, but I can have empathy for those who have worked hard and are losing $$$ big... The only difference is I went from wealthy to an utter pauper from the cruel deception of one man. It has been 15 years and the new company I own looks like it may finally make some money. If so I have 1-3 doubles to bring into the fold.

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