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gryphon
.450 member


Reged: 01/01/03
Posts: 5487
Loc: Sambar ground/Victoria/Austral...
Ivory sales
      #116953 - 15/10/08 07:15 AM


Africa : South AFrica: South Africa will sell ivory to Japan, China
on 2008/10/13 5:10:00

CAPE TOWN, South Africa (AP) — The South African government will press ahead with plans to sell just over 51 tons of ivory to China and Japan under a special exemption to the international ban on the trade.

The Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species ruled last year that Botswana, Namibia, South Africa and Zimbabwe would be able to make a one-off sale of 108 tons of government stocks.

Some environmentalists and African countries with dwindling elephant populations fear that it might encourage smuggling and poaching.

South African wildlife experts visited the two nations in September and said they were satisfied that both countries would meet the stringent conditions set by the convention and would not reexport ivory to supply the black market.

In a statement Thursday, the environment ministry said that it would now begin "preparations for the sale."

Ivory trade was banned globally in 1989, but reviving elephant populations allowed African countries to make a one-time sale a decade later to Japan, the only country which had previously won the right to import.

In July, the convention said that China should also be allowed to bid for the ivory at auction later this year as it had dramatically improved its enforcement of ivory rules.

There was opposition to China's inclusion in the auction from Ghana, Kenya and Australia, as well as some environmentalists.

The Washington-based Environmental Investigation Agency, said China had left too many questions unanswered and that the smuggling of ivory was out of control.

It said that more than 20,000 elephants a year are killed illegally in Africa and Asia for the ivory black market, with Chinese nationals implicated in illegal ivory seizures in more than 20 African nations.

Five years ago, the Chinese government confessed to the convention that it had lost track of 121 tons of ivory — the equivalent to the tusks from 11,000 dead elephants — between 1991 and 2002 and indicated that it probably was sold on illegal markets.

But since then Beijing has tightened its surveillance. Chinese law provides for capital punishment and life imprisonment for smugglers.

The South African environment ministry said it was satisfied that both China and Japan have computerised systems to register tusks and ivory products, as well as strict controls and ivory detection equipment at ports of entry and exit to prevent illegal exports.

After the sale, South Africa and its neighbors will not be allowed to export ivory again for nine years and must use the sale proceeds for programs to protect their elephant populations.

Even though the elephant is classed as "vulnerable" at international level, South Africa's elephant population of 20,000 is set to double by 2020, placing a heavy toll on the balance of nature in the Kruger National Park and other wildlife centers.

The government last year warned that it would have to resume killing elephants — banned since 1995 — as a last resort measure to try to control the population explosion.

--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.


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bakerb
.224 member


Reged: 03/09/08
Posts: 48
Loc: SW MO
Re: Ivory sales [Re: gryphon]
      #116956 - 15/10/08 07:56 AM

You would think that with the caveat that the proceeds be used for the further protection or benefit of the country's elephant population, that this sale might be a good thing. "After the sale, South Africa and its neighbors will not be allowed to export ivory again for nine years and must use the sale proceeds for programs to protect their elephant populations."

Not living on the ground there, and being ignorant of much of what goes on over there, I would be interested in hearing from some of the forums' African members. . . and hear of their opinions on this issue

Bake

--------------------
Shots rang out. . . as shots are wont to do.

Edited by bakerb (15/10/08 07:57 AM)


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SafariHunt
.333 member


Reged: 02/01/03
Posts: 468
Loc: Pretoria RSA
Re: Ivory sales [Re: bakerb]
      #116989 - 15/10/08 04:01 PM

bakerb,

It is a very difficult situation the Kruger park had a culling program which they last used in 1995 since then the population of elephants almost doubled but the size of the Kruger park stayed the same. They are eating themselves out of there making it difficult for everyone and all animals trying to survive with them.

As far as I know there is some type of hush hush culling going over there now since selling the stockpile of ivory now would deplete it I think. And having culls again would take off the pressure for other game and the park itself.

The biggest bullshit running around is that Elephants are not vunerable in any of the Southern African countries. They are overpopulated I just wish that SA would follow some of Zims wisdom and sell elephant for cheap hunting.

Transfrontier Park, making a transfrontier park of the Kruger park between Zim (Who is already over populated) and Mozambique doesnt help either as in Moz they get shot because the elephants eat the locals crops and elephant not forgetting anything still rmember the war of few years back there and dont wander into Mozambique that much.

Solutions are getting a lot of money and translocate 100's of elephants to places like Angola, Kenya and other previously wartorn our poached countries. (Not likely)

Reintroducing full on culling which worked excellent canning tons and tons of elephant meat with a big plant the Park has.

Lastly allow hunters to hunt more elephant in SA.

--------------------
"Sleeping under the African sky I can see nothing wrong with this world!"


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bakerb
.224 member


Reged: 03/09/08
Posts: 48
Loc: SW MO
Re: Ivory sales [Re: SafariHunt]
      #117012 - 16/10/08 12:44 AM

SafariHunt. . .

Do you think the sale of ivory and it's export will have an impact as far as increased poaching/smuggling?

I'm about the farthest thing from a preservationist that you can get. I've traveled out of my home state twice to hunt, but have read extensively, and believe wholeheartedly that sustainable trophy hunting is THE way to protect animals. Trophy hunting brings revenue, creates a "value" for animals, and creates jobs. Look at the rhino. . . if there wasn't an interest for hunters to hunt rhino, then they would probably only exist in closely guarded preserves. But as it is, as I understand, many ranches have introduced rhino, and fervently protect them because of the huge prices they bring from hunters.

I would much rather hear that SA has opened up cheaper elephant hunts than started culling, but I understand that if they have to cull in the park, they have to do it.

Just wondered what the smuggling/poaching implications were for this move

Thanks
Bake

--------------------
Shots rang out. . . as shots are wont to do.


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450_366
.400 member


Reged: 17/01/07
Posts: 1068
Loc: Sweden, west-coast.
Re: Ivory sales [Re: bakerb]
      #117041 - 16/10/08 06:11 AM

Quote:

SafariHunt. . .

Do you think the sale of ivory and it's export will have an impact as far as increased poaching/smuggling?

I'm about the farthest thing from a preservationist that you can get. I've traveled out of my home state twice to hunt, but have read extensively, and believe wholeheartedly that sustainable trophy hunting is THE way to protect animals. Trophy hunting brings revenue, creates a "value" for animals, and creates jobs. Look at the rhino. . . if there wasn't an interest for hunters to hunt rhino, then they would probably only exist in closely guarded preserves. But as it is, as I understand, many ranches have introduced rhino, and fervently protect them because of the huge prices they bring from hunters.

I would much rather hear that SA has opened up cheaper elephant hunts than started culling, but I understand that if they have to cull in the park, they have to do it.

Just wondered what the smuggling/poaching implications were for this move

Thanks
Bake




No, dont shoot the poor animals, they are at the edge of extinction.

That is what all (almost) people would say if they heard its allowed to shoot any african animal.
If in an reservat they would probably scream murder. I think the last ten friends i spoken with about hunting in africa thinks that one is not allowed to shoot any elephant anyware, they are not hunters offcourse.
It doesent matter if hunting preserves animals as long as the common human doesent understand hunting. Eweryone is used to by their meat in the store. It is time hunters all around the wourld started to educate people how hunting is performed and all the good thing it does to the wild animals. Their hearts bleed for the moose but they are not concerned about the farm pig that is bread in captivity and killed in captivity only living as potential food.

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"


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SafariHunt
.333 member


Reged: 02/01/03
Posts: 468
Loc: Pretoria RSA
Re: Ivory sales [Re: 450_366]
      #117290 - 20/10/08 04:45 PM

I'm not an expert but If you flood the market with legal ivory wouldnt the price just tumble making it difficult for poachers to earn good money ?

Sure there will be poachers who will use this flooded market to sell excess stock off but those elephants are dead already we cannot help them.

--------------------
"Sleeping under the African sky I can see nothing wrong with this world!"

Edited by SafariHunt (20/10/08 04:49 PM)


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450_366
.400 member


Reged: 17/01/07
Posts: 1068
Loc: Sweden, west-coast.
Re: Ivory sales [Re: SafariHunt]
      #117295 - 20/10/08 05:41 PM

If one is unlucky the poacher will need to shoot more for their income,as long no one would come up with an alternative that is. Hopefully some of the dealers would be out of buisiness at least. The bad thing could be that the added ivory would increase the demant (asia) and when the legal ones are gone, they are back on the poaching again.

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"


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