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NitroXAdministrator
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Is there a gap in the Nitro Express calibre line up?
      #116746 - 12/10/08 05:46 PM

Considering the vast number of Nitro Express cartridges in most conceivable calibres, is there any gaps still to be filled?

What I am talking about is a long flanged case for a calibre not yet utilised, perhaps the .338 ?

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500Nitro
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Re: Is there a gap in the Nitro Express calibre line up? [Re: NitroX]
      #116748 - 12/10/08 05:51 PM



NitroX

Maybe.

You have the 30 Flanged to 350's, 360's in various disguises
to the 375 Flanged.

The question is what would it give yu that the others wouldn't, especially since the 375 Fl tends to shoot
a number of bullet weights.

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Re: Is there a gap in the Nitro Express calibre line up? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #116750 - 12/10/08 05:57 PM

Quote:


The question is what would it give yu that the others wouldn't ....



Something new!

Perhaps cases modified/shorter but still tapered and flanged to better utilise modern propellants without the need for fillers.

If re-designing for the need to do without fillers, then there are many more possibilities.

Just a desire to be creative.

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500Nitro
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Re: Is there a gap in the Nitro Express calibre line up? [Re: NitroX]
      #116752 - 12/10/08 06:09 PM



Good thought process.

Although I don't use fillers in any of the above
- or in fact any of my Nitro cases.


And 338 has a great range of bullets.

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Re: Is there a gap in the Nitro Express calibre line up? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #116753 - 12/10/08 06:28 PM



The .338 would have a lot of merit.

Another idea.

A .416 cartridge that doesn't have the recoil of the .500/.416.

Larger range of projectiles and a lighter rifle such as can be used for the .400's would be two potential benefits.

What parent cases could be utilised?



***

On filler, another subject but ... what powder would you use in a .450 No. 2 NE ?

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450_366
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Re: Is there a gap in the Nitro Express calibre line up? [Re: NitroX]
      #116756 - 12/10/08 07:17 PM

Perhaps a 470/416?

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peter
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Re: Is there a gap in the Nitro Express calibre line up? [Re: 450_366]
      #116760 - 12/10/08 07:30 PM

resurecting the 333 flanged would be nice, but the 9,3 x 74 takes care of that sector.

peter

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shinz
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Re: Is there a gap in the Nitro Express calibre line up? [Re: peter]
      #116764 - 12/10/08 08:15 PM

I often thought that a flanged 318 WR would have been nice but then there was the ?? 303 Axite ?? which was very close to it & of that didn't cover it the 333 Flanged Jeffery probably did. As for the 470/416, I really think the 450/400 ballisticly covers that one too, if you want more oomph than that you're right into 500/416 territory with the accompanying recoil. Not a lot of free lunches to be had by the look of it.
Steve

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500Nitro
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Re: Is there a gap in the Nitro Express calibre line up? [Re: 450_366]
      #116766 - 12/10/08 08:53 PM

Quote:

Perhaps a 470/416?




All you have is a 500/416.


NitroX

I don't have a 450 No 2, prefer to stick with calibre that don't need filler.

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450_366
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Re: Is there a gap in the Nitro Express calibre line up? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #116772 - 12/10/08 10:21 PM

Ok, but what about a 45-70 or 45-90 taken down to 416?

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peter
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Re: Is there a gap in the Nitro Express calibre line up? [Re: 450_366]
      #116777 - 13/10/08 12:02 AM

Quote:

Ok, but what about a 45-70 or 45-90 taken down to 416?



andreas

what about a 45-120 taken down to 410 = its called 450/400-3,25"

peter

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450_366
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Re: Is there a gap in the Nitro Express calibre line up? [Re: peter]
      #116778 - 13/10/08 12:17 AM

Hell why not take it down to 9,3mm then you have a 450-366.

But actually the brass would be cheap and you wont need the extra voulume of the 45-120
as you could increase the pressure a bit in a new action. And now one would be able to try and shoot a 416 thru a 410. But perhaps it wound be able to perform in the higher velocities, but no one has specified the speed yeat.

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Bramble
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Re: Is there a gap in the Nitro Express calibre line up? [Re: 450_366]
      #116783 - 13/10/08 01:43 AM

Takeing a 9.3 x 74 down to .318 or .338 perhaps would fill a gap ?

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Huvius
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Re: Is there a gap in the Nitro Express calibre line up? [Re: 450_366]
      #116797 - 13/10/08 04:42 AM

Quote:

Hell why not take it down to 9,3mm then you have a 450-366.

But actually the brass would be cheap and you wont need the extra voulume of the 45-120
as you could increase the pressure a bit in a new action. And now one would be able to try and shoot a 416 thru a 410. But perhaps it wound be able to perform in the higher velocities, but no one has specified the speed yeat.



Sounds like a 360 No.2 with a 3 1/4" case.

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Re: Is there a gap in the Nitro Express calibre line up? [Re: Huvius]
      #116809 - 13/10/08 06:04 AM

Isnt the 360 No2 smaller in the base?

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DUGABOY1
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Re: Is there a gap in the Nitro Express calibre line up? [Re: NitroX]
      #116811 - 13/10/08 06:19 AM

Quote:

Quote:


The question is what would it give yu that the others wouldn't ....



Something new!

Perhaps cases modified/shorter but still tapered and flanged to better utilise modern propellants without the need for fillers.

If re-designing for the need to do without fillers, then there are many more possibilities.

Just a desire to be creative.



NitroX just came up with a dirrection in modification that makes sense! I've always said we need a flanged 243 Win cartridge, so a real fast action double rifle for deer hunting could be made very reliable, yet fast enough to have a very flat trejectory! I'd buy a double rifle, so chambered, in a heart beat! I have a little MCA Mannlicher Shoenauer 243 that is a one hole shooter, and kills like lightening on Muledeer. Nothing would be faster in the woods, for runing deer, that a double rifle chambered for a flanged 243Win, or 7mm-08. I Thougt about building one on the necked down 307 Win case, which is simi-rimmed, but a full flanged case would be more reliable. With this line of thinking, flanged cases could be made for many very good cartridges that are not now suited for double rifles. The list would be endless!

--------------------
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Huvius
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Re: Is there a gap in the Nitro Express calibre line up? [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #116813 - 13/10/08 06:33 AM

I guess the base dia. in the 360 no.2 is smaller than the 450.
Dugaboy, how about the 6mm Musgrave? Sounds like the rimmed 243 you're looking for.

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Re: Is there a gap in the Nitro Express calibre line up? [Re: Huvius]
      #116816 - 13/10/08 06:48 AM



The 240 Apex is the 243 Flanged.

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Schauckis
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Re: Is there a gap in the Nitro Express calibre line up? [Re: NitroX]
      #116827 - 13/10/08 09:17 AM

Quote:

What I am talking about is a long flanged case for a calibre not yet utilised, perhaps the .338 ?



How long do you need it to be?
I'm thinking 8x57JRS.
Sure, not awfully long at all, but operates at moderate pressures and utilizes the 8,2mm bullet, i.e. .323.
Another one is the newer 8,5x63R mentioned on Nitroexpress.com before. A newer development utilizing the .338 bullet to gain heavier bullet weights than the .323s have to offer.

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Paul
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Re: Is there a gap in the Nitro Express calibre line up? [Re: Schauckis]
      #116837 - 13/10/08 02:24 PM

I suspect any effort to fill any gaps in the NE line-up with new cartridges would come to nothing - because they would be NEW cartridges. The failure to the .500/.416 to set the Anglophile db fraternity on fire can, I believe, be put down to this. Loaded with a couple of lighter bullet-weights between 350 and 410 grains, loaded to the same velocities as the 450 gr, this calibre could be a wonderful all-rounder - but it probably won't happen.

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Re: Is there a gap in the Nitro Express calibre line up? [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #116839 - 13/10/08 04:27 PM

Quote:

I've always said we need a flanged 243 Win cartridge, so a real fast action double rifle for deer hunting could be made very reliable, yet fast enough to have a very flat trejectory! I'd buy a double rifle, so chambered, in a heart beat! I have a little MCA Mannlicher Shoenauer 243 that is a one hole shooter, and kills like lightening on Muledeer. Nothing would be faster in the woods, for runing deer, that a double rifle chambered for a flanged 243Win, or 7mm-08. I Thougt about building one on the necked down 307 Win case, which is simi-rimmed, but a full flanged case would be more reliable. With this line of thinking, flanged cases could be made for many very good cartridges that are not now suited for double rifles. The list would be endless!


What about old Finish cartridges like 6,3x53R and 7x53R. Good tapered case, Powerfull enough for your use. Full size rim. Accurate like their parent cartridge 7,62x53R.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Is there a gap in the Nitro Express calibre line up? [Re: Paul]
      #116840 - 13/10/08 04:52 PM

Quote:

I suspect any effort to fill any gaps in the NE line-up with new cartridges would come to nothing - because they would be NEW cartridges. The failure to the .500/.416 to set the Anglophile db fraternity on fire can, I believe, be put down to this. Loaded with a couple of lighter bullet-weights between 350 and 410 grains, loaded to the same velocities as the 450 gr, this calibre could be a wonderful all-rounder - but it probably won't happen.



The usual legitimate complaint I read about the 500/416 is the recoil is equivalent to a .470 and requires a heavier double rifle, unlike the .400s.

A .416 calibre double rifle shooting a 400 gr bullet between 2100 fps and 2200 fps would have an advantage of the .416 calibre projectiles and a lighter rifle weight.

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"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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Schauckis
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Re: Is there a gap in the Nitro Express calibre line up? [Re: Paatti]
      #116873 - 14/10/08 02:21 AM

Quote:

What about old Finish cartridges like 6,3x53R and 7x53R. Good tapered case, Powerfull enough for your use. Full size rim. Accurate like their parent cartridge 7,62x53R.



Well - I was going to suggest 8,2x53R... But it's so darn close to the 8mm Mauser which also is better known.
True, though, that still today the 7,62x53R and its derivatives provide yeoman all the service we may ever wish for!

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JabaliHunter
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Re: Is there a gap in the Nitro Express calibre line up? [Re: Schauckis]
      #116880 - 14/10/08 04:37 AM

.450/.423 or .500/.423 firing 450 grain woodleighs at a real 2175fps from a 25" barrel? I would

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Re: Is there a gap in the Nitro Express calibre line up? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #116896 - 14/10/08 10:11 AM

Quote:



The 240 Apex is the 243 Flanged.



The 240 APEX does perform the same as the 243 Win, but has a bullet dia of .245, not 243, and what I want is a 243WIN cartridge, only with a flanged case, with no other changes! The 307 Win is a 308 Win case with a SIMI RIMMED case that can be run inot a 243 Win die to turn it into a simi rimmed 243 Win, after reaming out the neck. I may build one of those, but I'd rather have a real flanged case.

The 240 H&H flanged is almost imposible to find componant brass for! I passed up a very clean H&H double rifle a few years ago because of the difficulty of finding, or makeing brass. Brass can be made, SORT OF , from 9.3X74R brass by turning the rim, and sizeing in the 240 flanged die, with out the expander. But this has to be done, then loaded , and fire formed to expand the base of the cartridge buldgeing the cartridge just ahead of the rim, makeing a very funny looking final form of the cartridge!

I made a little double rifle a few years ago with a small 6MM cartridge of my own design. It was a 256 Win Mag necked down to 243, with no other changes. It was deadly on small antilope, and Coyotes. I called it 243 JACKAL! As far as I know that cartridge has only been chambered in two rifles, a little BSA Martini kadet, and a small double rifle built on an imported Spanish made 410 ga frame shotgun. Both sold years ago, but i wish I had both back. If anyone knows where either of these little rifles are give me a shout!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
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"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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