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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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ajsaxin
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Reged: 19/09/08
Posts: 25
Loc: canada
Heym,Krieghoff,Merkel or the Searcy ??
      #116077 - 02/10/08 03:24 AM

I am looking to get a double (my first one) .Saved up a bit and would save a bit more .I am looking at the .500 NE.Reasons being always wanted a heavy calibre double (probably would feel more macho hahaha) and I would be using it on my first safari in the distant future.Woud be shooting a lot of buffs ,hippos and a odd bull elephant if to expensive maybe a cow (are they not more exciting to hunt if not for the trophy value of a bull?).Dont really see myself shooting much of the plain games and no Lions
Would prefer not going in for a used one even if british.

Which ones would you recommend among these 4 if the price was not a factor between them .As of now really find the Heym Jumbo intrestin ,its a sidelock ,considering the fact that the london gun makers are the best at sidelocks how good and reliable would u rate the heym for its sidelock doubles? also read a lot of positive experinces with the Searcy .My only criteria is the best among these and yes a nice looking one would not hurt.

Other makers in the same price range as these and better would also be great.

Appreciate all your responses
AJ


* I am left handed

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Kalunga
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Re: Heym,Krieghoff,Merkel or the Searcy ?? [Re: ajsaxin]
      #116079 - 02/10/08 03:53 AM

I would choose a Heym, not the Jumbo but a 88B. I believe that the locks of the 88B weaken the stock considerably less than sidelocks do and their trigger pull and safety level is just as good.
I have no experience with Searcy doubles but can tell You that the Heyms are much better than the Craphoffs. Merkel knows how to build doubles but I like the locks of the Heym better.
If You have enough money a custom double could be worth a consideration.
Just MHO.

Kalunga

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Chasseur
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Reged: 18/11/03
Posts: 771
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Re: Heym,Krieghoff,Merkel or the Searcy ?? [Re: ajsaxin]
      #116084 - 02/10/08 04:53 AM

Hi and welcome to the forum.

I'd second Kalunga, of the ones you listed Heym would be the best choice, in terms of qualtiy. Though they are more expensive.

Also, don't forget Chapuis or Demas. You can customize Chapuis and Demas rifles to your specifications.

--------------------
In regards to action he should devote himself to hunting...
-Machiavelli



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bigmaxx
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Reged: 13/06/07
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Re: Heym,Krieghoff,Merkel or the Searcy ?? [Re: Chasseur]
      #116120 - 02/10/08 02:10 PM

I have handled the Merkel and the Kreighoff. The Kreighoff fits me better and seems to have better balance IMHO. Havent got to check out the others. Would love to handle the Heym.

--------------------
One day at a time...

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ozhunter
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Re: Heym,Krieghoff,Merkel or the Searcy ?? [Re: bigmaxx]
      #116132 - 02/10/08 06:37 PM

A Heym Safari with a 12ga barrel and splinter foreend and in 450NE, 470NE or 500NE.

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93mouse
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Re: Heym,Krieghoff,Merkel or the Searcy ?? [Re: ajsaxin]
      #116135 - 02/10/08 06:48 PM

Quote:



Which ones would you recommend among these 4 if the price was not a factor between them .



Heym

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ajsaxin
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Reged: 19/09/08
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Loc: canada
Re: Heym,Krieghoff,Merkel or the Searcy ?? [Re: 93mouse]
      #116160 - 03/10/08 04:36 AM

Between the Heym and the Searcy how which one would you be able to customise more to suit my specific needs,keeping in mind I am left hander.

Are the Heym rifles heavy enough especially since I am going in for a larger calibre a adequetely heavy rifle would help with recoil.

Any one here whose tried out both the searcy and the heym in any of the mentioned calibres ?would be great to hear your opinion.

Thank you

Aj

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mehulkamdar
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Reged: 09/01/04
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Re: Heym,Krieghoff,Merkel or the Searcy ?? [Re: ajsaxin]
      #116167 - 03/10/08 08:19 AM

How are you going to get ANY gun into India considering that the import of guns has been banned since 1984?

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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ajsaxin
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Re: Heym,Krieghoff,Merkel or the Searcy ?? [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #116205 - 03/10/08 07:58 PM

India at the momemnt will be moving to canada for good by end of the year.

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Huvius
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Re: Heym,Krieghoff,Merkel or the Searcy ?? [Re: ajsaxin]
      #116218 - 04/10/08 01:37 AM

Quote:

Between the Heym and the Searcy how which one would you be able to customise more to suit my specific needs,keeping in mind I am left hander.



I handled a Heym and noticed it had a very pronounced palm swell. I am right handed. It was actually the first time I had handled a double Heym and it felt really nice - I think the swell seemed to help it point more positively. Traditionally, I don't know if the swell is for increased grip, recoil absorbtion or what but it did feel nice.
I do not know if Heym makes their doubles in right or left hand specifically. Worth looking into.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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Sunshine
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Re: Heym,Krieghoff,Merkel or the Searcy ?? [Re: ajsaxin]
      #116624 - 10/10/08 11:29 PM

Many well-known African professional hunters are using Krieghoffs, hope this answers your question.

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Der_Jaeger
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Re: Heym,Krieghoff,Merkel or the Searcy ?? [Re: Sunshine]
      #116626 - 11/10/08 12:03 AM


I've shot both the Merkel and the Krieghoff in .500 NE at the Vintagers events and feel that the Krieghoff fits me much, much better. The length of pull and the drop at heel are spot on. I like the Merkel actions, from which Rigby also uses for their guns, but the stocks don't fit me at all. Of course, gun fit is paramount in a big double. I really like the Heym, also. They also fit me very well. If I had to pick my favorite and I had the money with all of the guns lined up in front of me, I'd be hard pressed not to go with a Verney Carron. They look incredible and the triple locks really do something for me.

--------------------

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Ripp
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Re: Heym,Krieghoff,Merkel or the Searcy ?? [Re: Sunshine]
      #116629 - 11/10/08 12:08 AM

Quote:

Many well-known African professional hunters are using Krieghoffs, hope this answers your question.




While I agree that the Krieghoffs are a good gun for the money as they fit me better than the Merkels...part of the reason so many African Professionals shoot the Krieghoffs is that Kreighoff offers them to the PH's at a VERY reduced price...about half of what you or I would pay...for this very reason--people see the PH with a Krieghoff and wow, another sale is made...

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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Sunshine
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Re: Heym,Krieghoff,Merkel or the Searcy ?? [Re: Ripp]
      #116637 - 11/10/08 03:59 AM

Quote:

...part of the reason so many African Professionals shoot the Krieghoffs is that Krieghoff offers them to the PH's at a VERY reduced price...about half of what you or I would pay...for this very reason--people see the PH with a Krieghoff and wow, another sale is made.




Interesting but maybe not true... I´m a South African PH since 1986 - I didn´t get a "very reduced price". Krieghoff knew that I´m a PH, there was not reduction in price whatsoever. Had to pay the full price for my Classic Big Five!

Duckworth, Jösch, Daffner, Dedekind, Katzke, Vermaark, Ochsenbein, Greef, Loubser, Thormallen, Prinsloo, Dorrington. Do you really believe these PHs are using a Krieghoff double barrel because they got a huge discount? There must be another reason...

`African Outfitter´ October/November 2008 p. 8: `Around the campfire with PH Geoff Wainwright´: ..."And as I couldn´t afford the best in English doubles........, I opted for the next best affordable weapon - a German double in Krieghoff .470. To this day this rifle serves me well when hunting elephant, buffalo and cats."

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foxfire
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Reged: 25/11/04
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Re: Heym,Krieghoff,Merkel or the Searcy ?? [Re: ajsaxin]
      #116639 - 11/10/08 04:34 AM

Quote:

I am left handed


I'm sure none of the double rifle manufacturers has a problem making your gun left handed.
I bought a used Krieghoff. I sent it to them to change the stock to a left handed stock. They did it easily and the cost was relatively small. While they had the gun they turned the triggers out to the left making it a beauty to shoot left handed. The top tang still opens they regular way and it still shoots the right barrel first. To me it is my left handed double.

--------------------
No good deed goes unpunished

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Ripp
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Re: Heym,Krieghoff,Merkel or the Searcy ?? [Re: Sunshine]
      #116641 - 11/10/08 04:48 AM

Quote:

Quote:

...part of the reason so many African Professionals shoot the Krieghoffs is that Krieghoff offers them to the PH's at a VERY reduced price...about half of what you or I would pay...for this very reason--people see the PH with a Krieghoff and wow, another sale is made.




Interesting but maybe not true... I´m a South African PH since 1986 - I didn´t get a "very reduced price". Krieghoff knew that I´m a PH, there was not reduction in price whatsoever. Had to pay the full price for my Classic Big Five!

Duckworth, Jösch, Daffner, Dedekind, Katzke, Vermaark, Ochsenbein, Greef, Loubser, Thormallen, Prinsloo, Dorrington. Do you really believe these PHs are using a Krieghoff double barrel because they got a huge discount? There must be another reason...





Per my sources it is true--was told that by one of the PH's in camp in Zim in June of this year. Once stateside I called my contact with Krieghoff out of Florida --and she did confirm they DID have a program for PH's and the price was slightly less than $7000. US --for a new Kreighoff...so to answer your second question---YES, I do believe that would have a substantial influence in the choice when purchasing a double gun..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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DUGABOY1
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Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: Heym,Krieghoff,Merkel or the Searcy ?? [Re: Huvius]
      #116652 - 11/10/08 09:11 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Between the Heym and the Searcy how which one would you be able to customise more to suit my specific needs,keeping in mind I am left hander.



I handled a Heym and noticed it had a very pronounced palm swell. I am right handed. It was actually the first time I had handled a double Heym and it felt really nice - I think the swell seemed to help it point more positively. Traditionally, I don't know if the swell is for increased grip, recoil absorbtion or what but it did feel nice.
I do not know if Heym makes their doubles in right or left hand specifically. Worth looking into.



I've handled a lot of Heyms, and I've never seen one with a palm swale! The Krieghoff does, however, have the palm swale. I think you might be thinking of the Krieghoff! As to the reason for the swale, there isn't one! It would be my first modification of the Krieghoff stock, the first of many for me.

I believe the Krieghoff rifles are worth their asking price,"IF" they fit you, they don't fit me at all, and feel a little like a fence post to me. The do shoot very well, and I have zero problem with the combi-cocking system on the K gun, but the type on the Blaser is Not to my likeing at all. There is no comparison between the Krieghoff and the HEYM. the Heym would be my pick of all that have been mentioned, with a B. Searcy a close second. The Merkels are more like the Britt guns in ballance that the Krieghoff, or Blaser, and IMO, are a better bargain for the price. The Heym is way up there for the PH no frills model, at $16.5K so is the Searcy at $14K, but Searcy is now offering a PH model again for around $10K to compete with the Krieghoff, and Merkels in price.

If I were the origenal poster here, I would try all the models, and brands mentioned, and take the one I could afford, that fit me best, because they are all good rifles, but the one mentioned
cover a wide range of prices. The only one I wouldn't buy under any circumstance is the Blaser, IMO there are some safety issues with useing a double rifle that doesn't recock it's self after shooting, and opening the rifle,for a re-loading. Besides life is just too short to hunt with an ugly rifle!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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bigdog
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Re: Heym,Krieghoff,Merkel or the Searcy ?? [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #116730 - 12/10/08 12:41 PM

I will take the Searcy every time.

--------------------
Kyle, I love you buddy, Dad

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Sunshine
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Re: Heym,Krieghoff,Merkel or the Searcy ?? [Re: Ripp]
      #116848 - 13/10/08 08:03 PM

Quote:

...part of the reason so many African Professionals shoot
Per my sources it is true--was told that by one of the PH's in camp in Zim in June of this year. Once stateside I called my contact with Krieghoff out of Florida --and she did confirm they DID have a program for PH's and the price was slightly less than $7000. US --for a new Kreighoff...so to answer your second question---YES, I do believe that would have a substantial influence in the choice when purchasing a double gun..Ripp




Well, this morning I received an email from the person at Krieghoff/Ulm/Germany, in charge of the African market: Mr. Michael Steinmetz. He confirmed that there is NO PROGRAM FOR PHs! If a PH´s business is registered for VAT, then he can claim VAT back, that´s all according to him, no PH gets a double barrel at a reduced price. If a dealer gives a discount, that´s a different story which has nothing to do with Krieghoff/Germany.

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Ripp
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Re: Heym,Krieghoff,Merkel or the Searcy ?? [Re: Sunshine]
      #116870 - 14/10/08 12:53 AM

Quote:

Quote:

...part of the reason so many African Professionals shoot
Per my sources it is true--was told that by one of the PH's in camp in Zim in June of this year. Once stateside I called my contact with Krieghoff out of Florida --and she did confirm they DID have a program for PH's and the price was slightly less than $7000. US --for a new Kreighoff...so to answer your second question---YES, I do believe that would have a substantial influence in the choice when purchasing a double gun..Ripp




Well, this morning I received an email from the person at Krieghoff/Ulm/Germany, in charge of the African market: Mr. Michael Steinmetz. He confirmed that there is NO PROGRAM FOR PHs! If a PH´s business is registered for VAT, then he can claim VAT back, that´s all according to him, no PH gets a double barrel at a reduced price. If a dealer gives a discount, that´s a different story which has nothing to do with Krieghoff/Germany.



==========


My intent is not to argue with you--merely stating what I was told by both the PH in Zim as well as Pam Young of Krieghoff out of Florida. Whoever told you they don't offer any such program is wrong or perhaps they offer it here in the US but I DO know they offer programs--as they have been willing for me to use one if I promote it during filming hunts in Africa...perhaps they don't offer special PH programs now --but KNOW THEY HAVE IN THE PAST..

Thank you,

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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UtahLefty
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Re: Heym,Krieghoff,Merkel or the Searcy ?? [Re: ajsaxin]
      #117634 - 25/10/08 01:54 PM

just checking in again here - been awhile.

I am left handed and took delivery of a Heym PH in 470 this spring. Couldn't be happier.

the stock is fitted to measure and the triggers are turned LH. I had reservations on how well the stock would fit but it's perfect. The rifle weighs a hair under 10# and is just about right in terms of weight/liveliness.









accuracy and regulation are quite good (shown here in the sighting process - 50m, the regulation distance)






I even managed to shoot a moose with it this fall








all in all, I would recommend the Heym without reservation and would spend the $$ all over again.

--------------------
-UtahLefty

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UtahLefty
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Re: Heym,Krieghoff,Merkel or the Searcy ?? [Re: UtahLefty]
      #117635 - 25/10/08 02:08 PM

I should add a few afterthoughts:


-the lefthandedness incurred no surcharge and delivery was within a week of the target date.

-I also shot a Chapuis, Merkel, and Blaser prior to making a decision. The Blaser has a safety/cocking mechanism which is similar to the Kreighoff --- and most definitely NOT for me.
The Heym feels just so much better than the Chapuis & Merkel that there really was no dilema in my mind as to the best choice. In fairness the Blaser was the only one with a LH stock -- shooting a RH gun LH cannot be recommended -- but that doesn't change much, IMO.




--------------------
-UtahLefty

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DUGABOY1
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Reged: 02/02/03
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Re: Heym,Krieghoff,Merkel or the Searcy ?? [Re: UtahLefty]
      #117656 - 26/10/08 01:26 AM

I have to agree with Lefty! I've owned two Heym 88B rifles, and loved them both, especially the first one which had the selector switch to turn the ejectors to extraactors, and vice-versa.

In the price range the Heym falls, it would be my first choice as well. I have owned all the makes listed, except the Krieghoff. I still own a pair of Merkels, and they are value for money spent, however, they are not in the same price range as the Heym, or Searcy classic. The Merkel, and Krieghoff are in the same ball park, and between those two I prefer the Merkel. The cocking system of the Kreighoff is light years above the Blaser in opperation! The blaser, IMO, does not qualify as a rifle for Dangerous game, simply because it has to be re-cocked manually after breaking open to re-load. The krieghoff re-cocks it's self just like most hammerless double rifles, so when broken, re-loaded, slammed shut, it is ready for the next two! I predict the Blaser will get someone hurt or killed someday, when the first two don't get the job done! I could live with the Krieghoff, with a few changes, but I like the Merkels better, more British in styling.

Given the choice, of those listed, if they all cost the same, my pick would be the #1Heym, #2 Searcy, #3 Merkel, and #4 the Krieghoff, and way down the list the Blaser,would be my absolute last choice, and I had no other choice! I'd rather have a good CRF bolt ation, than a Blaser double rifle, for use on dangerous game!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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Der_Jaeger
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Re: Heym,Krieghoff,Merkel or the Searcy ?? [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #117876 - 29/10/08 10:34 PM

What do you guys think of the Verney Carron double rifles? The locking mechanism alone is fascinating. Does anyone have any experience with these rifles?

--------------------

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new_guy
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Re: Heym,Krieghoff,Merkel or the Searcy ?? [Re: Der_Jaeger]
      #117886 - 30/10/08 12:55 AM



Well done Matt!

How did the Moose react to the 500gr Woodleigh?

What were the angle and penetration like?

--------------------
www.heymUSA.com

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