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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles

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mcb
.224 member


Reged: 18/12/03
Posts: 24
Loc: Ohio, USA
My first experience with the 458 Winchester.
      #11531 - 15/03/04 02:36 AM

Alright I got my first chance to shoot a 458 Winchester yesterday. A friend of mine has one and after a round of sporting clays we headed over to my uncle’s farm and shot a few rounds.

My first experience with a big bore rifle was a few months ago when I fired another friends Ruger 77 Magnum in 416 Rigby. The recoil was heavy and pushed me around a lot but when I was ready and in a good standing position it was never painful. That was the heaviest rifle I had shot up to this point. Before that the heaviest recoil I had encountered was 3 inch 12 gage slugs (by far the most painful in my experience to date even including the 458 Win) and my 58cal muzzle loader loaded with 555 grain maxi-ball (TC’s maxi hunters).

The 458 Winchester was an interesting gun it was a Mauser model 66. It had a very unusual bolt action that had the bolt handle near the front end of the bolt and a slider that carried the bolt. The magazine was directly on top of the trigger group rather than just in front of it in a typical bolt action configuration. It made for a very handy rifle that shoulder nicely.

When my friend handed me the Mauser I was a slight bit fearful remembering the recoil of the 416 and noticing that this rifle felt about a pound lighter then the Ruger. The first shot was with a 510 grain soft point. I bared down hard on the rifle and attempted to squeeze the rigger, I’m pretty sure I flinch a little as I missed the gopher silhouette we were shooting at about 40 yards away. The gun shoved a lot but to compare it to the 416 Rigby I found the recoil less sharp but with a good bit more push. It was more pleasant to shoot then the 416 Rigby.

I did finally connect with that poor gopher silhouette and a 510 grain soft nose sent it flying. The gopher is cut from 1/2 cold rolled steel plate that is hung from a small frame/base with two short piece of chain. Frame and all weight about 15-20 lbs. Its really meant for pistol and light rifle rounds, but it has had a hard life since I got it. Its been shot with every thing from 22 shorts to 458 Win with stops at 22LR 22Mag, 410 slugs, 357Mag, 44Mag, 223Rem, 450Marlin, 7mmRUM, and 416 Rigby. It about time to get the torch and welder out for a little repair.

The 416 Rigby put by far the biggest dent in the gopher but the 458 Win sent it for the farthest flight. The slower heavier bullet of the 458 Win was not able to penetrate before it pushed the steel out of the way.

Well after a couple 510 grain bullet I tried a few 350 grain soft nose and those were down right friendly to shoot. They also did more local damage to the gopher but did not send it flying at far.

Over all I found the 458 Winchester a lot of fun to shot. I could see myself shooting a 458 Win at a bench to sight it in. I’m not so sure that I would want to shot the 416 Rigby at a bench. The extra sharpness to the recoil I think could hurt if you sat down with that gun.

Today I am just a bit stiff in my right shoulder. But I’m not sure if that is the 458 or the 100 bird sporting clay course and a round of 5 stand. Most likely both.

Now if I can just find someone with a 375 H&H to fire a couple rounds through I think I could get really serious about picking out my first big bore. As I have posted here before I am considering some type of bolt gun in 375H&H, 416 Rigby, 458 Win, or even 458 Lott. Right know the 458 Win is my favorite and one I think I could learn to shoot really well. I like the Ruger rifle having shot one but the CZ is appealing as they seem well made for the price, but I have not handle a 550 magnum only their rim fires and small bore rifles. My real pick if I could find one at the right price would be a pre 64 Winchester model 70 in 458 Winchester. It would look good next to the pre 64 270 Win I have now. I know this has been a lot of aimless rambling but I would enjoy any comments or advise.

Thanks for reading
mcb


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Scartozi
.275 member


Reged: 14/03/04
Posts: 63
Loc: Columbus Ohio, USA
Re: My first experience with the 458 Winchester. [Re: mcb]
      #11533 - 15/03/04 02:56 AM

First off it's nice to see a fellow "Ohioan" on here. Sounds like you like your 458 win mag. That's great, you found a round you like and like shooting it with what I can gather no noticable "recoil flinching". Keep on sendin those steel groundhogs to the boneyard. I'll have to make some of those up, sounds like fun to shoot them.

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475Guy
.400 member


Reged: 22/08/03
Posts: 1088
Loc: Kali, US
Re: My first experience with the 458 Winchester. [Re: mcb]
      #11554 - 15/03/04 07:46 AM

mcb, welcome to the bigbore world. The 458 WinMag is one the softest shooting mags out there along with the 375 H&H. If you can handle a 458 Win, you can handle a 375. The only caveat is that both calibers must have the proper weight and fit you in order not to hurt you. I found that out years ago when I was young and stupid. I didn't know about proper length of pull in those days and thought I had to adjust my body to suit. WRONG! I tried to shoot everything (factory made) with all the wrong LOP's and my rotator cuff is still stiff to this day.

--------------------
Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.


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458RugerNo1
.224 member


Reged: 04/03/04
Posts: 24
Loc: Mtns of the Desert Southwest, ...
Re: My first experience with the 458 Winchester. [Re: mcb]
      #11573 - 15/03/04 12:52 PM

I love both my .458's (Ruger No 1 and Ruger M77 MkI) and find neither of them abusive to shoot. The No 1 weighs 9 lbs 2 oz and the M77 just under 10 lbs. Even off the bench it's no big deal, just a good healthy push. I've fired many shotguns that were more uncomfortable to shoot.

As mentioned below, stock fit is very important with such rifles or you WILL find it unpleasant to shoot.

The .458 has alot of potential in terms of versatility for the reloader. There are LOTS of .458" bullets on the market from cast to inexpensive jacketed to super premium. You do not have to load it to full potential to have a fantastic short to medium range big game rifle for North America. Moderate loads are fun to shoot and still have ample whallop for anything you will find in this hemisphere. Brass for the .458 Win is cheap and plentiful too. It doesn't use enormous powder charges either compared to some of the heavies, so cost isn't prohibitive.

The .458 Winnie is a classic round and a joy to shoot!

--------------------
God Bless old Elmer Keith!


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cr500
.300 member


Reged: 11/10/03
Posts: 213
Loc: Singleton ,Australia
Re: My first experience with the 458 Winchester. [Re: mcb]
      #11721 - 17/03/04 01:52 PM

Goes to show I was right all along. The 458 is a perfect varmint cartridge, sent the gopher flying didnt it. Seriously though , I have found I can shoot my 458 fairly well with minimal flinching and can reload and get back on target pretty quickly. As for the 460 Weatherby, follow up shots would take twice as long and I,m sure I flinch pretty badly in anticipation of the bloody big kick.
Some people can handle the real big ones pretty well , I sure cant.


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RobertD
.275 member


Reged: 16/11/03
Posts: 67
Loc: East Bay, CA, USA
Re: My first experience with the 458 Winchester. [Re: mcb]
      #11989 - 20/03/04 12:22 PM

mcb: I own a 416 Rigby and a 458 Win. If you handload, the 458 is much more flexible than the 416, athough you can download the 416 and do a whole lot of things with it.

I like the 458 better for reduced loads. With cast bullets, you have a bigger bore going for you. And, if you load a 400 to 450 grain slug, you can penetrate anything on this continent! If you shoot the Hornady 350g round nose, you have a good jacketed bullet for most anything stateside.

Now, that being said, when I go to Africa or New Zealand for buffalo, I will take my 416 Rigby. I believe it is better suited for a one gun safari than the 458.

You can look at the 458 as a 45-70 if you download and 450 Marlin if you up the velocity a bit, and you can still use it as a 458 Win Mag.

RobertD





--------------------
NRA Life Member
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"Time is never found, if you want time for something, you have to make it."


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Gibbs505
.333 member


Reged: 09/08/03
Posts: 442
Loc: BC, Canada
Re: My first experience with the 458 Winchester. [Re: RobertD]
      #11998 - 20/03/04 02:28 PM

When did they get Buffalo in New Zealand?

Never had them when I lived there!!!

--------------------
So I can't spell, so what?

Those who beat their swords into ploughshares, will plough for those who don't!

Those who fail to learn from history will be doomed to repeat it


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475Guy
.400 member


Reged: 22/08/03
Posts: 1088
Loc: Kali, US
Re: My first experience with the 458 Winchester. [Re: Gibbs505]
      #12006 - 20/03/04 03:27 PM

From what Nitro, Bakes, and 470 have said, the water buffs have been running in Oz for quite a while. Go to Nitro X's post on hunting buffs in Oz.

RD, I never bothered to load the 458 down as it was soft enough for me shoot all day with it. The only concession was to load a 600 gr cast bullet to check whether it would do anything. It had decent penetration but I had to seat it out a bit as it definitely ate up cartridge space.

--------------------
Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.


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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: My first experience with the 458 Winchester. [Re: 475Guy]
      #12017 - 20/03/04 04:08 PM

What, New Zealand isn't part of Australia? I always thought it was the island off the coast where all of the Hobbits lived.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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475Guy
.400 member


Reged: 22/08/03
Posts: 1088
Loc: Kali, US
Re: My first experience with the 458 Winchester. [Re: mickey]
      #12034 - 20/03/04 05:08 PM

Mick, up here, we generally lump the whole area together with Australia. All outlying islands within a few hunnert miles, give or take, are included generically as OZ. Hobbits are hard to come by, aren't they elusive targets? What's the trophy size?

--------------------
Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.


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RobertD
.275 member


Reged: 16/11/03
Posts: 67
Loc: East Bay, CA, USA
Re: My first experience with the 458 Winchester. [Re: Gibbs505]
      #12101 - 21/03/04 02:09 PM

Gibbs505: You are correct, they are actually in Aussie land. I have NZ on the brain, as I am going on a hunt there next April.

RobertD

--------------------
NRA Life Member
CRPA Life Member
SCI Golden Gate Member

"Time is never found, if you want time for something, you have to make it."


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