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ovny
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Reged: 19/06/08
Posts: 591
Loc: Spain
Place of shoot.
      #112862 - 29/08/08 04:35 AM

Hello friends, I always asking inconsistencies, to forgive therefore again by the inconveniences. Well, we suppose that we are hunting in Africa, and that our objective is the great cape buffalo. Ours arms is my rifle Ceska 550 Magnum of the caliber 375 H&H Magnum, munition with projectile of 300 grains or 350 grains (adequate for this hunt). I do not yet have the 458 Lott, I continue saving euro jejeje. The question is ¿where would place you the shot?. We will shot to the neck, to the shoulder, to the head. ..yo again I ask pardon by the inconveniences, but I I enjoy asking and moving the forum.

A greeting,

Oscar.

--------------------
I am Spanish

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Paul
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Reged: 28/08/07
Posts: 1031
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Re: Place of shoot. [Re: ovny]
      #112925 - 29/08/08 04:33 PM

Oscar,
There is a good book called 'The Perfect Shot' by Kevin Robertson that might help you, and I think it is available on the Internet for about $65.

I borrowed it to read and, as I recall, the best shots on buffalo (and other ungulates) tend to be:

Side on

1. the top of the heart (about four-tenths of the way up the chest, in line with the front leg, at the top point of the shoulder visible under the skin), which will also pierce the lungs.

2. the spine where it dips sharply down near the front of the lungs, slightly above the level of the heart shot (1). A miss behind the spine should at least get the lungs.

From the front

1. just beneath the chin to hit the spine at the bottom of its dip in front of the shoulder.

2. the brain, in the middle of the forehead above the eyes; if the buffalo is charging with its head up, this may require a shot up or along the nose.

3. top of the heart, possibly a fraction below the middle of the chest.


In writing this stuff, I realise an explanation without Robertson's pictures is inadequate. Get the book and read about all the other considerations required as well.

Cheers
- Paul

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93mouse
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Reged: 17/08/07
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Re: Place of shoot. [Re: Paul]
      #112927 - 29/08/08 04:53 PM

IMO - green area is for a general lung/heart broadside - red dot would be high shoulder (spine) shot that (some say) should drop the buff on the spot (it wouldn't be my first choice tho)



Also you may check the following site - go to buffalo then scroll down for shot placement and trophy judgement...

http://www.safaribwana.com/ANIMALS/indexanml.htm

P.S.: IMO on frontal brain - aim between the ears (no matter the angle of the head)

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bigmaxx
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Reged: 13/06/07
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Re: Place of shoot. [Re: 93mouse]
      #112938 - 29/08/08 06:33 PM

Try this out: http://www.safaribwana.com/MEMBERS/buffalo%20shot%20placement.htm

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One day at a time...

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ovny
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Reged: 19/06/08
Posts: 591
Loc: Spain
Re: Place of shoot. [Re: bigmaxx]
      #112944 - 29/08/08 09:34 PM

Thanks Paul, 93moose, and bigmaxx, your answers have served me so that I have clear the best place where to place the shots. I believe that you said points of impact are the idoneos with independence of the caliber utilized ¿this is not thus?.

A greeting,

Oscar.

P D: I hope some day I have that to put in practice the teachings that you show me.

--------------------
I am Spanish

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larcher
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Reged: 11/01/05
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Re: Place of shoot. [Re: ovny]
      #112961 - 29/08/08 11:59 PM

Hi bullfighter,

What can ice the cake is breaking one way or another some bone when shooting at the chest. That'll cripple the buffalo and can help if the critter is bad-tempered (not yellow-bellied).
Of course the target is lungs + heart, but if the angle permits it, it helps to break either the humerus or the shoulder blade.
good luck

--------------------
"I don't want to create an encyclopedic atmosphere here when we might be having a beer instead" P H Capstick in "Safari the last adventure."

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ovny
.375 member


Reged: 19/06/08
Posts: 591
Loc: Spain
Re: Place of shoot. [Re: larcher]
      #112974 - 30/08/08 01:29 AM

Hello larcher:

I hope were bullfighter jajajaaj, the bullfighters win a lot of money and that was going to permit me to have a good car, a good house and of course to hunt everywhere. I would be going to visit you and I would give you the ears of the last bull that fought. I take note of all the counsels that you give myself, you believe or not, and when to my the lottery touch me (today in the euromillo there are of prize 88 million euro to the change 129,174.407,80 USD), I am going to apply him in my shootings. Jejejeej, to dream the free and as they say in Spain, of illusion also lives itself.

A hug,

Oscar.

--------------------
I am Spanish

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Paul
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Reged: 28/08/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Re: Place of shoot. [Re: larcher]
      #113089 - 31/08/08 03:12 PM

Quote:

Hi bullfighter,

What can ice the cake is breaking one way or another some bone when shooting at the chest. That'll cripple the buffalo and can help if the critter is bad-tempered (not yellow-bellied).
Of course the target is lungs + heart, but if the angle permits it, it helps to break either the humerus or the shoulder blade.
good luck



Surprisingly, Larcher,
Kevin Robertson ('The Perfect Shot' author) says that breaking one shoulder of a buffalo (or other dangerous animal) won't stop it charging and killing you. If you can break both shoulders, it might have a problem.

- Paul

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larcher
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Reged: 11/01/05
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Re: Place of shoot. [Re: Paul]
      #113278 - 02/09/08 04:59 AM

ovny

Now Euromillion lottery is offering 114 millions Euros.Plenty of safaris for sure.

Paul

You're right. My English is fairly akward. On a broadside buff no need to take risk at attempting to break elbow, humerus or shoulder blade. But a buff quartering might offer a bone in the shooting line, but main goal being to pierce the chest.
A slightly quartering buff offers such a target. A buff almost offering his backside just allow to have the bullet exiting right between the front legs. A charging buff (does that exist?) should be shot at a leg of course.
Why do I suggest that breaking some bone can help. when I first came in Africa 6 years ago, I was invited by the former boss of the game department whose motto was "break bone whenever possible". His job also was to dispatch any Problem animal. Should the shooting be botched, he has noted that when an animal has a broken leg, he won't flee very far and will be dealt with the very day.
Anyhow, I think that breaking some bone is just a bonus, not more.
good luck

--------------------
"I don't want to create an encyclopedic atmosphere here when we might be having a beer instead" P H Capstick in "Safari the last adventure."

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ovny
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Reged: 19/06/08
Posts: 591
Loc: Spain
Re: Place of shoot. [Re: larcher]
      #113286 - 02/09/08 05:50 AM

Quote:

ovny

Now Euromillion lottery is offering 114 millions Euros.Plenty of safaris for sure.

Paul

You're right. My English is fairly akward. On a broadside buff no need to take risk at attempting to break elbow, humerus or shoulder blade. But a buff quartering might offer a bone in the shooting line, but main goal being to pierce the chest.
A slightly quartering buff offers such a target. A buff almost offering his backside just allow to have the bullet exiting right between the front legs. A charging buff (does that exist?) should be shot at a leg of course.
Why do I suggest that breaking some bone can help. when I first came in Africa 6 years ago, I was invited by the former boss of the game department whose motto was "break bone whenever possible". His job also was to dispatch any Problem animal. Should the shooting be botched, he has noted that when an animal has a broken leg, he won't flee very far and will be dealt with the very day.
Anyhow, I think that breaking some bone is just a bonus, not more.
good luck



Lancher, est beaucoup de l'argent, mais est aussi très difficile que je le vainqueur peut résulter, bien que votre avoir l'assurance qui joue. Ma femme m'a dit qui la moitié pour chaque un et que chaque l'un l'administre comme mieux comprend. Aller la première chose que je causerais est un safari.

Une salutation,

Oscar.

--------------------
I am Spanish

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Paul
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Reged: 28/08/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Re: Place of shoot. [Re: ovny]
      #113335 - 02/09/08 05:09 PM

Sorry chaps, my French is a bit dodgy, but if I won a big lottery I'd want one of those three-month safaris that royalty and the rich used to take when life was more relaxed.

As to 'them bones'(as the song goes), Larcher, in deer hunting we also try to break the shoulder -for the reasons you mentioned. I think a side-on, high-heart shot at buffalo also has a good chance of breaking it. This is good of course, with the qualification of Kevin Robertson's warning.

Interestingly, non-ungulate dangerous game such as rhino and the cats have their hearts farther back, behind the leg, as I recall from the book.

Cheers
- Paul

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larcher
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Reged: 11/01/05
Posts: 2655
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Re: Place of shoot. [Re: Paul]
      #113351 - 02/09/08 07:16 PM

Paul

French is of no use. Perhaps I'll try with the lottery. Irreparably I am a looser with any game dealing with money.

"Bad to the bones" another song.
Here in France, breaking some bone is a no-no. Respect for the meat forbid to aim at the shoulder. That's why often our shooting is a tad back. When bumping onto a genuine trophy, it's another story. Nothing beat a shot right through the shoulders to anchor the trophy.
I agree, it's amazing that cats have their heart this back. Rhino isn't on my hunting list as far as I have won the lottery.
Talking about Richardson's books, I am damned. Some friends borrow them and they are never to be back again. I bought twice "the Perfect shot" and have none home.

--------------------
"I don't want to create an encyclopedic atmosphere here when we might be having a beer instead" P H Capstick in "Safari the last adventure."

Edited by larcher (02/09/08 07:17 PM)

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Paul
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Reged: 28/08/07
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Re: Place of shoot. [Re: larcher]
      #113365 - 02/09/08 07:48 PM

Larcher,
If you have already owned the book twice, I am 'trying to teach my grandmother to suck eggs' as we say in English.

Perhaps you could send your 'friends' an anotomical illustration of what you'll do if they don't give the books back.

Good luck
- Paul

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larcher
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Reged: 11/01/05
Posts: 2655
Loc: Saverne, Alsace, France
Re: Place of shoot. [Re: Paul]
      #113374 - 02/09/08 11:04 PM

Peter
Never ask my grand ma to suck any balls, I have to improve my English because I can't understand what You're suggesting?
I know the names of the fuckers who have borrowed my books : my cousin first, second my closest friend Claude, third my bro in law, fourth a young hunting partner. I like all of them and consider having given the books. In the life one has to be a philosopher. More over it gives me an edge.

Ovny

Here is a link to a page of bwanasafari for placement of shots on buffalo.
safaribwana

By the way what means Ovny

In French OVNI means UFO , unidentified flying object????????????????

--------------------
"I don't want to create an encyclopedic atmosphere here when we might be having a beer instead" P H Capstick in "Safari the last adventure."

Edited by larcher (02/09/08 11:04 PM)

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Paul
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Reged: 28/08/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Re: Place of shoot. [Re: larcher]
      #113438 - 03/09/08 02:04 PM

Larcher, apparently many years ago, people used to make a small hole(s) in the end of an egg and suck out the raw contents. We don't do this now, but maybe our (great, great?)grandmothers did. Therefore, to 'teach your grandmother to suck eggs' means telling someone how to do something who probably knows how to do it better than we do.

Those safaribwana pics look OK but the targets seem rather large. While any shots within the red spots would work eventually, Kevin Robertson seems to believe in a bit more precision.

Cheers
- Paul

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ovny
.375 member


Reged: 19/06/08
Posts: 591
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Re: Place of shoot. [Re: larcher]
      #113439 - 03/09/08 02:15 PM

Quote:

Peter
Never ask my grand ma to suck any balls, I have to improve my English because I can't understand what You're suggesting?
I know the names of the fuckers who have borrowed my books : my cousin first, second my closest friend Claude, third my bro in law, fourth a young hunting partner. I like all of them and consider having given the books. In the life one has to be a philosopher. More over it gives me an edge.

Ovny

Here is a link to a page of bwanasafari for placement of shots on buffalo.
safaribwana

By the way what means Ovny

In French OVNI means UFO , unidentified flying object????????????????



In my case are my initials plus an I. Jejejeje, thanks for the link.

Oscar.

--------------------
I am Spanish

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93mouse
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Loc: Slovenia
Re: Place of shoot. [Re: ovny]
      #113481 - 03/09/08 09:45 PM



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ovny
.375 member


Reged: 19/06/08
Posts: 591
Loc: Spain
Re: Place of shoot. [Re: 93mouse]
      #113509 - 04/09/08 04:22 AM

The vital points are not very large jejeeje. One must tune up enough. Thanks 93mouse by the image.

Oscar.

--------------------
I am Spanish

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Place of shoot. [Re: ovny]
      #113554 - 04/09/08 03:48 PM

Quote:

The vital points are not very large jejeeje. One must tune up enough.



Oscar

Front on shots are harder than a broadside one. A brainshot can be very difficult and best on a standing beast or very close.

Sten Cedergren mentioned he does not know why so many go for a brain shot, he says at the point of the V will drop a charging bull easily. Comments anyone?

A chest broadside shot or angling on a buffalo is quite easy especially at close range with a big bore calibre. Doesn't mean they drop instantly though.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Paul
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Re: Place of shoot. [Re: NitroX]
      #113575 - 04/09/08 07:45 PM

93mouse's pic is very good and somewhat familiar. Get Kevin Robertson's 'The Perfect Shot' and you'll see lots with that sort of clarity. The dipping-spine shot should also do less damage to your trophy that the brain shot, I would think.

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93mouse
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Re: Place of shoot. [Re: NitroX]
      #113579 - 04/09/08 09:00 PM

Quote:


Sten Cedergren mentioned he does not know why so many go for a brain shot, he says at the point of the V will drop a charging bull easily. Comments anyone?



I have shot my charging buff frontal - PH advised "point of V", however when I saw it comming I just couldn't keep it off its eyes and nose - so I have put 1st one beneath the chin (hitting him on the left lower jaw), that stopped the charge for a moment and gained some time (knocked buff on his front knees, he was still pushing forward with his hind legs tho), PH gave him quartering high shoulder (beneath the spine) shot that put buff's hind part down, tho he was geting up again on his front legs (sitting like a dog) when i gave him another right on the shoulder joint that put him down for good (at that moment he gave up) - he was laying down with his head up, looking away so I gave him side brain behind the eye - lights out.







If I'd have to do it again (having a double now ) I'd give him 1st on point of V (standing or charging) and in case of a charge save the second for a head shot (on the nose this time). Under the chin would come at hand if buff would be standing still with head up, breasts concealed and it would be too far for a sure brain shot IMO.

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larcher
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Re: Place of shoot. [Re: 93mouse]
      #113601 - 05/09/08 12:55 AM

I agree with all of You.

93mouse's picture from Richardson's book is interesting. It leads to believe that any shot into the central vertical axis of the buff will be dramatic.
One great asset is the low dipping spine that enables to nail the buffalo from brain down almost half of the chest. I will suggest that the brain location can be deceptive. On any animal the brain is rarely above the eyes. More over, a shot at the forehead could be deflected. IMO opinion never shoot above the eyes line. Between the nostrils will be safer, the bullet smashing the spine that is a longer target.
One can notice that under the spine is a gap occupied by both lungs and that the heart is below. In this zone, a bullet can whizz just between the 2 lungs and do far less immediate harm.

Fundamentally, the trouble is to center the bullet onto the vertical central axis as shows 93mouse's report.

Mouse, I'd like to know why the buff was knocked on his front feet when hit under the chin, though the bullet went in the left lower jaw. Spine commotion?

--------------------
"I don't want to create an encyclopedic atmosphere here when we might be having a beer instead" P H Capstick in "Safari the last adventure."

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ovny
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Reged: 19/06/08
Posts: 591
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Re: Place of shoot. [Re: larcher]
      #113617 - 05/09/08 02:42 AM

Bow-wow, increibles you photograph them, of new thanks by its answers. I believe that the first shot would carry out it on the shoulders of the animal to the object to reach the heart and the lungs. In the case of a load, I would shoot on the nostrils. Also it will depend on the caliber utilized.

Oscar.

--------------------
I am Spanish

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Paul
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Reged: 28/08/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Re: Place of shoot. [Re: ovny]
      #113678 - 05/09/08 02:21 PM

Without access to any books at this moment, I think the brain of most bovine critters is above the eyes.

Certainly it is in cows. We used to shoot some of our own for meat, when the market collapsed in 1976. A shot between the eyes would cause the beast to shake its head and walk away. Shoot it in the centre of the forehead, even with a .22, and it would fall like a bag of spuds.

The problem with buffaloes, apparently, is that they often charge with their heads up, making this distincion almost irrelevant.

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93mouse
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Re: Place of shoot. [Re: larcher]
      #113689 - 05/09/08 04:33 PM

Quote:



Mouse, I'd like to know why the buff was knocked on his front feet when hit under the chin, though the bullet went in the left lower jaw. Spine commotion?





JB - must have been - as you see from the pic bullet shattered the jaw and went into throat just infront of molars - probably ended somewhere between neck vertebras and neck muscle - unfortunately bullet was never found.

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