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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Handguns

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88MauSporter
.375 member


Reged: 06/06/07
Posts: 530
Loc: Alaska / Texas
Webley, The perfect compamion
      #112787 - 28/08/08 12:46 PM

When you look at classic nitro express and other classic continental hunting rifles, Webleys were and still can be a great companion. For usefull and practical sidearms, I find the classic Webley very hard to beat. Mine are the older MKI and MK III versions. They were both converted to .45 auto rim some time ago and well before they became mine. I load .45 auto rim cases with .455 level standard load velocities and the heavier 250-260 grain bullets to shoot to point of aim. Both of these large, but handy revolvers shoot well and to sights at reasonable ranges (25 yrds) or so. I can also use .45 ACP brass, loaded with the same loads as the rimmed case and put them in full moon clips. This is fast to reload. The huge hammers are positive, and the trigger pulls crisp. The double action is surprisingly smooth in both. When going afield they are a great complement to a variety of rifles. I like that they are just as at home today in my adventures as they may have been with their original owners maybe 100 to 120 years ago. Here are some lovely "couples".
MK I with MH .577/.450 Sporter

MK I with Snyder .577 Sporter

Mk III with SMLE No. 1 MK III*

MK I with SMLE No. 1 MK III*

The pair with SMLE No. 1 MK III*

MK I with .375 Express 2 1/4 MH

MK I and MK III with Martini Cadet .310

MK I

MK III

MK I with Broad arrow on topstrap


My retreat.


--------------------
"A hunter should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everthing goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." 88MauSporter


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Checkman
.333 member


Reged: 15/03/08
Posts: 256
Loc: Idaho
Re: Webley, The perfect compamion [Re: 88MauSporter]
      #113008 - 30/08/08 11:01 PM

Earlier this year I finally got my hands on a MK VI after literally looking for years. There were two other times that I actually found a MK VI for sale. The first time it had been nickel plated and it wasn't a professional job plus it had some really cheesy white plastic grips on it. It was a pass even though I did consider it. The second time it was in great condition, but I couldn't afford it at that time.

This past February everything fell into place. It's actually an Enfield MK VI manufactured in 1925. Evidently Enfield took over manufacturing the revolver from approximately 1923 - 1927 then introduced the smaller version in 38/200 and discontinued the big old 455 model. Mine has also had the cylinder shaved for 45 acp/45 auto rim, but like you I load my 45 to 455 specs.

It's a classic revolver and has long been one of my favorites. It sits on the same level with the C96 Mauser. Which one day I hope to also own.

You have two very nice pieces there. They look great.


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9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5503
Loc: United States
Re: Webley, The perfect compamion [Re: Checkman]
      #113038 - 31/08/08 06:26 AM

Quote:

It's a classic revolver and has long been one of my favorites. It sits on the same level with the C96 Mauser. Which one day I hope to also own.

You have two very nice pieces there. They look great.




Agreed!!

I've never owned one but did shoot my friend's MKVI a bit. Neat guns.

88, yours are very nice!

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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mehulkamdar
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: Webley, The perfect compamion [Re: 88MauSporter]
      #113065 - 31/08/08 10:22 AM

88MauSporter,

Your post brought back some really fond memories. I owned a Mark III in India many years ago and while it had what was the smoothest trigger action of any revolver that I have ever fired, though mine wasn't particularly accurate. These are lovely old guns and the design is still being made in India by the Indian Ordnance Factory in 32 Long for civilian sale and in 38 Spl for sale to the Indian FOrest Department though Indian quality is crap compared to the originals.

These are grand old guns and they are beautifully made. Not as sturdy as a Colt or a Smith and Wesson from the period, but unusual and fun to own. Congratulations on a fantastic pair. I hope you find many more variations to add to your gunsafe.

Weidmann's Heil!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar


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88MauSporter
.375 member


Reged: 06/06/07
Posts: 530
Loc: Alaska / Texas
Re: Webley, The perfect compamion [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #113071 - 31/08/08 12:10 PM

Thanks for the replies and comments. I do enjoy my Webleys. I am distantly related to the Sir Ernest Shackleton of Antarctic exploration fame. He carried a Webley .455 of unknown mark, but it must have been a MK I or MK III, as the VI was not yet released. I do want to get my hands on a nice MK VI. I do enjoy my Webleys, and own also an Enfield in .380/200 with 6" barrel Mine is the earlier version with both single and double action. It is in like new condition.
I will carry my Webleys (because I can) when hunting with my "colonial" Sporters.
thanks, and I hope to see and hear about other Webleys and the like out there that go along with these classic Nitro express and Africa and Asia bound sporters.

--------------------
"A hunter should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everthing goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." 88MauSporter


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9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5503
Loc: United States
Re: Webley, The perfect compamion [Re: 88MauSporter]
      #113072 - 31/08/08 12:17 PM

Quote:

I am distantly related to the Sir Ernest Shackleton of Antarctic exploration fame.




No kidding?

One of my Heroes!!!

Shackleton was a great man among men.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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88MauSporter
.375 member


Reged: 06/06/07
Posts: 530
Loc: Alaska / Texas
Re: Webley, The perfect compamion [Re: 9.3x57]
      #113079 - 31/08/08 01:59 PM

Mine, too, of course. I have some hand me down books that Shackleton wrote of his first exploration that he lead. He was on at least three before he died on the way to South Georgia Island to begin a new expedition. He is buried there on what is one of the Islas Malvinas (for Martin) or Falklins.
There is one incident in the great epic of the ENDRANCE where one of the crew tries to create a mutinee in the ranks while the men are trapped on the ice. Shackleton pulls out the Webley a uses there threat of using the same to make sure this person respects that he is in command and Mr. Webley will no doubt settle the issue if it comes up again.
Shackleton was a fancier of nice sporting weapons. I have tried to research this with litttle result. Be keep trying.
He ordered an 1886 Winchester in .33 Winchester for two of the expeditions. He also brought a pair of nice English SXS doubles to hunt various wild fowl with the very first time he was part of an expedition to Antarctica.

Great true adventures to read in the Shackleton experience.

--------------------
"A hunter should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everthing goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." 88MauSporter


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88MauSporter
.375 member


Reged: 06/06/07
Posts: 530
Loc: Alaska / Texas
Re: Webley, The perfect compamion [Re: 88MauSporter]
      #113080 - 31/08/08 02:15 PM

Mehul Kamdar:
I am always iin awe of the stories of India and the past there. I have not been, but it is only time before I do. I am sure it is not near the land it was when you lived there. Much different in circumstances and people. It is very interesting to me that there are Webley inspired revolvers being produced today in India!! I have seen and once owned one of the No. I MkII actioned .308 (7.62 nato) rifles. I was mislead with mine, as someone had removed the Drill Purpose red stripes from the stock. I had to give it up.
My guns must be in shooting condition.
We have the distinct privilage of having "Indian" origin game animals in large numbers here in Texas. They run wild in hunting quantities and are encouraged on ranches for occasional hunting. Nilgi and "balckbuck". Fantastic animals. Brought here in the 1920's and released in the King ranch. They have multiplied and spread far beyond now in the South West.
Someday, I hope there will be controlled sport hunting again in India that I could participate in .
thanks, and tell me more about the big revolver and what you used it for.
Best wishes,

--------------------
"A hunter should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everthing goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." 88MauSporter


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dale
.333 member


Reged: 28/02/06
Posts: 341
Loc: logan W.V.
Re: Webley, The perfect compamion [Re: 88MauSporter]
      #113099 - 31/08/08 05:06 PM

88MauSporter,

Thanks for posting the photos, you have some unique and classic treasures. Hard to find in the condition of yours. I also like how you put them with the rifles, nice touch. I swear, it never ceases to amaze me how much knowledge is shared by the members. Always so interesting and I learn from all of them.


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mehulkamdar
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: Webley, The perfect compamion [Re: 88MauSporter]
      #113163 - 01/09/08 09:01 AM

88MauSporter,

Sadly, I was born too late for the glorious years of Indian shikar and by the time I was old enough to get my gun license (in those days you could get one at 16) the government banned hunting for all practical purposes. However, they do have a problem with pigs and some ungulates like Nilgai in several states of India these days and you can shoot them on a crop protection permit. There is a long discussion of this on the Indian hunting threads including an official policy document that has been posted there by a good friend of mine.

However, all is not lost and in recent years, one Indian state, Jharkhand, has sold boar permits to non Indians for the first time since 1976 for $ 50 per animal bagged. There are proposals to extend this to Nilgai as well in Rajashan and Gujarat and possibly Haryana, states which have a problem with these animals and which currently allow them to be shot under permission granted by a Divisional Forest Officer.

My Webley-Scott revolver was a .32 Mark III as I told you and it was one of three (maximum) guns permitted to Indians under Indian law these days. When I owned it, there was a restriction on the ownership of any handgun larger than .32 calibre and on rifles larger than 8mm. These restrictions have been thrown out through litigation in the courts by individual gun owners in recent years and now, Indians can own four guns if they happen to be target shooters. The import of guns is banned unless an Indian has lived abroad and has acquired a firearm during his / her stay abroad and had it for more than a year. Target shooters, again, are exempt from this ban but they can only own target firearms and nothing else.

Here is a link to the Webley rip-off made by the Indian Ordnance Factory. The quality is junk and they don't even blue the revolvers, painting them with some black automobile paint. This link has some more firearms that are manufactured for sale to the public including a Sauer 200 rip off rifle in 30-06 which is equally pathetic in quality. Sadly, India is not a place where anyone wants to buy any gun from the government. You do, however, have a few shops that manufacture muzzleloaders of good quality in the bore calibres both replica Brown Bess type guns and sporting guns including double rifles in 12, 16 and 20 bores with fluid steel and Damascus barrels and this company, Curious House, is the best among the private gunmakers. They sell the bulk of their guns in Europe where I have spoken to several friends who own their products and think well of them. They had plans to sell them in the USA some years ago but I don;t know what happened to them. The company also makes traditional Damascus knives and swords including hunting knives using the 2000 plus year old method of making Wootz type Damascus, a method that some people believe died out in the 17th century. It certainly didn't in India and these guys have been a business since 1815 though as traditional craftsmen of guns, swords, daggers and armour, they have been around for much longer being Sikligars or royal armourers by tradition for centuries. Their products can be found in virtually every big museum in Europe as the British, the French and the Portuguese, the three major powers that ruled over India continuously, and the Danish and the Dutch who were there before being edged out by the other three, took samples of these peoples' work back at a time when Indian steel was technologicaly superior to European until the beginning of the 18th century when modern steels were invented.

Sorry for the long post. Your revolver just brought back some very pleasant memories and I hope that you don't mind my rant on your lovely thread. I used to come to Texas when I ran a business supplying the Federal Government and shipped stuff to the military through Houston but I am now an adult ("geriatric" is how my wife describes it) student at university working towards a PhD, an old ambition of mine. I do have a lot of friends in Dallas-Ft Worth and Houston and most of them came to Texas as students in the early 1980s and stayed on, marrying lovely Texan women. Maybe, sometime when I'm there and if you are close to either of these cities, I could invite you to have some beers with us and our families if you're free? Of course, if you make it to Chicago, the invitation is always open. One of my best friends has a property with blackbuck which he hunts with friends and he has them there because in India itself, blackbuck have been hunted close to extinction. Texas is where many magnificent animals from India will be in the future, no doubt. As someone born in India and a proud resident of this country, I salute your state for its efforts in hunting and conservation.

Good hunting and may many more superb guns come to your gun safe!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar


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88MauSporter
.375 member


Reged: 06/06/07
Posts: 530
Loc: Alaska / Texas
Re: Webley, The perfect compamion [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #113209 - 01/09/08 02:35 PM

Mahul:
thanks for the informaiton about the hunting and guns in India. I do wait for a time to visit there. I apprecie the comments about the post and the Webleys.
My collecting always has some history involved to it in some way. I find that there is so much of interest in collecting classic arms and then studying the circumstances where, when and who used them.
I hope to see more about the classic rifles and the handguns of the same period.

--------------------
"A hunter should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everthing goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." 88MauSporter


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