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bwananelson
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Reged: 08/10/07
Posts: 1195
Loc: DELTONA FLORIDA
450 rigby vs 458 lott
      #112200 - 21/08/08 11:21 AM

what would be your pick in a bolt action rifle saw the same maker with theses two choices what is the better thumper

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THERE ARE NO DO OVERS IN LIFE DONT LET A CHANCE AT A DREAM SLIP AWAY.


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bigmaxx
.375 member


Reged: 13/06/07
Posts: 660
Loc: Bowling Green KY U.S.A.
Re: 450 rigby vs 458 lott [Re: bwananelson]
      #112203 - 21/08/08 12:36 PM

I like the .458 lott, one reason being availabilty of relatively inexpensive ammo and components. I also like the ability to shoot .458 winchester magnum, a caliber thats very common where big dangeous game are hunted. It's a major thumper in my book! I must admit I am not familiar with the .450 Rigby though. How is the .450 Rigby different from the 450 Nitro Express 3 1/4"?

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One day at a time...


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bwananelson
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Reged: 08/10/07
Posts: 1195
Loc: DELTONA FLORIDA
Re: 450 rigby vs 458 lott [Re: bigmaxx]
      #112207 - 21/08/08 02:53 PM

i dont know thats why my question i just saw the barrel stamped 450 rigby perked my interest

--------------------
THERE ARE NO DO OVERS IN LIFE DONT LET A CHANCE AT A DREAM SLIP AWAY.


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jvw
.300 member


Reged: 15/05/08
Posts: 102
Loc: Australia
Re: 450 rigby vs 458 lott [Re: bwananelson]
      #112213 - 21/08/08 05:09 PM

Gents,

Although both the .458 Lott and the .450 Rigby use the same .458-calibre bullets, they are actually two very different cartridges.

The Lott round uses a full-length, blown-out .375 H&H case, whilst the .450 Rigby uses the large .416 Rigby case, necked up to .458. The Lott is by far the most popular one of the two, although I know of a few PH's over here who uses .450 Rigby rifles to great effect. A friend of mine also owns a beautiful .450 Rigby on a much-modified Brno 602 action, one of the last magazine rifles built by Rigby in London during the early 1990's. He has used it extensively on elephant and buffalo and is very happy with it. My friend also has extensive experience with most of the English double and magazine cartridges and he rates his .450 (with handloads-500 grain Woodleigh solids and Swift A-Frame softs @ 2450 fps) as equal to the .500 Jeffery and .505 Gibbs (as factory-loaded).

Regarding ballistics, the Lott normally fires a 500-grain bullet at 2 200-2 300 fps, whilst the Rigby number (as loaded by Kynamco) uses a 480-grain bullet at about 2 450 fps. Incidentally, the 480-grain bullet is a throwback to the first Nitro-Express, the .450 NE introduced in 1898, which also fired a 480-grain bullet. The Rigby is quite capable of duplicating the Lott's factory ballistics at much lower pressure (read "easy extraction") but at the expense of a cartridge worth's magazine capacity.

I do not have much experience with the .458 Lott. I have fired one or two (recoil is brisk, as is to be expected), and it is by all accounts a very fine round. From what I've been told, 2 300 fps with a 500-grain bullet is just about the practical velocity/powder capacity limit in most rifles (sounds just fine to me!). The Rigby, on the other hand, is capable of a bit more, thanks to its large case capacity. My friend loads 500-grainers to over 2 600 fps with no problems (just don't ask about the recoil...), and 600-grainers to over 2 300 fps (see previous note about recoil). Making cases for the .450 Rigby from .416 Rigby is easy, but Bertram, Kynamco, and a handful of US makers/distributors offer them in any event, so you should be fine. The Lott is well on its way to replacing the .458 Winchester as the most popular heavy calibre just about everywhere, and that should result in plentiful ammo and components very shortly, even over here in Africa.

The Lott will kill everything, and I mean everything, very dead. The Rigby will as well, but it is capable of more, should you ever decide to need "more". In a similar rifle, and living in a place where components and ammo are getting scarcer and more expensive by the day, I would pick the one with the most available ammo and reloading components.


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bwananelson
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Reged: 08/10/07
Posts: 1195
Loc: DELTONA FLORIDA
Re: 450 rigby vs 458 lott [Re: jvw]
      #112242 - 22/08/08 06:09 AM

how about collector value i would think the rigby would be a rarer gun,i have only seen 1.

--------------------
THERE ARE NO DO OVERS IN LIFE DONT LET A CHANCE AT A DREAM SLIP AWAY.


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xausa
.400 member


Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: 450 rigby vs 458 lott [Re: jvw]
      #112247 - 22/08/08 09:08 AM

Would it be correct to surmise that the .450 Rigby is just the .460 Weatherby, without the belt?

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hoppdoc
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Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: 450 rigby vs 458 lott [Re: jvw]
      #112248 - 22/08/08 09:12 AM

No question that the 450 Rigby can push the 500 grainers faster, but to what effect??

A 500 grainer at 2150+ will penetrate and kill everything that walks so I am at a loss what the higher velocity 450 Rigby does other than give more standoff capability.

If I want more gun a larger diameter bullet seems a better approach.

The same arguement can be said about the 375 H&H vs Weatherby 378. Great ballistics but to what purpose?

Would I love to have a 450 Rigby?? Of course!!
Is it a superior weapon to a 458 Lott?? Dunno, but I suspect not.

I obviously admit I have never hunted Africa with either--Am I all wrong on this??

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An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

Edited by hoppdoc (22/08/08 09:18 AM)


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bigmaxx
.375 member


Reged: 13/06/07
Posts: 660
Loc: Bowling Green KY U.S.A.
Re: 450 rigby vs 458 lott [Re: hoppdoc]
      #112266 - 22/08/08 01:13 PM

Found this one on Whittaker Guns website: CZ 550 Safari Classic .450Rigby Fancy Grade Stock ***UNFIRED IN BOX*** $ 1,699.00

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One day at a time...


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ovny
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Reged: 19/06/08
Posts: 591
Loc: Spain
Re: 450 rigby vs 458 lott [Re: bigmaxx]
      #112272 - 22/08/08 03:31 PM

So I humbly speaking, I continue with my decision to buy a 458 Lott, I believe it is sufficient to reduce all the wildlife on the planet with ownership.

Regards,

Oscar.

--------------------
I am Spanish


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jvw
.300 member


Reged: 15/05/08
Posts: 102
Loc: Australia
Re: 450 rigby vs 458 lott [Re: ovny]
      #112277 - 22/08/08 08:44 PM

The .450 Rigby is indeed a beltless .460. Paul Roberts, the previous owner of Rigby, spawned the cartridge specifically with elephant in mind as he felt that the .450's and up did much better on body shots. As you can imagine, breaking a bull elephant's shoulder takes some doing and a 500-grain .458 bullet certainly has a bit of an edge over any of the .400 calibre cartridges in this respect.

Regarding collector's value, well, that would depend on the kind of rifle, wouldn't it? "Original", ie London-made Rigby's, obviously have a lot of collector's value. CZ's, although very fine rifles, would not have much.

What kind of rifle were you interested in buying?


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Ndumo
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Reged: 21/12/03
Posts: 230
Loc: Namibia
Re: 450 rigby vs 458 lott [Re: jvw]
      #112323 - 23/08/08 03:54 PM

I do not like belts, thus steered clear of the Lott, and settled on a Rigby. I have never looked back, it penetrates unbelievable, though I normally use heavier than standard bullets nowadays. (550 gr Woodleigh solids and 550gr Rhino "softs" @ 2300 ft/ sec, or 500gr FN solids at 2400)
Here is an article I wrote a while back on the Rigby:
http://www.huntingsafaris.net/pdf/reloadingtherigby450rimless.pdf

Here is a photo of the rifle (the one on top):


--------------------
Karl Stumpfe
Ndumo Hunting Safaris (Pty) Ltd.
karl@huntingsafaris.net
www.huntingsafaris.net
+264 811 285 416


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JabaliHunter
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Reged: 16/05/07
Posts: 1958
Loc: England
Re: 450 rigby vs 458 lott [Re: Ndumo]
      #112337 - 23/08/08 08:31 PM

That's a fine battery there and a great article! I just restarted my subscription to Magnum after a break of about 10 years (I stopped it on principal when they suddenly more than doubled the price to international subscribers, but it seems more reasonable now)...

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shinz
.300 member


Reged: 11/05/08
Posts: 135
Loc: New Zealand
Re: 450 rigby vs 458 lott [Re: Ndumo]
      #112345 - 23/08/08 10:43 PM

Karl, what a fabulous looking line up. Might one be impertinent enough to enquire what calibres the others are?
Steve


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Ndumo
.300 member


Reged: 21/12/03
Posts: 230
Loc: Namibia
Re: 450 rigby vs 458 lott [Re: shinz]
      #112348 - 24/08/08 12:50 AM

Steve, its the .450, followed by a 9.3x64, a 8x68, a 7x64 and a .243

--------------------
Karl Stumpfe
Ndumo Hunting Safaris (Pty) Ltd.
karl@huntingsafaris.net
www.huntingsafaris.net
+264 811 285 416


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shinz
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Reged: 11/05/08
Posts: 135
Loc: New Zealand
Re: 450 rigby vs 458 lott [Re: Ndumo]
      #112369 - 24/08/08 10:29 AM

Karl. many thanks for satisfying my curiosity, NICE calibres, the 243 is the only mundane one among them & I suspect in its case nice is as nice does, good on Baboons is it?
Steve


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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5521
Loc: United States
Re: 450 rigby vs 458 lott [Re: shinz]
      #112374 - 24/08/08 11:12 AM

Karl:

Who made the front sights on your rifle? Is it a bead or something else?

It almost looks like a Ruger Mini-14 barrel-band, sourdough-type which I might add is in my opinion a very practical and useful type of sight.

And the rear, is it a wide V or some sort of notch?

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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bigmaxx
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Reged: 13/06/07
Posts: 660
Loc: Bowling Green KY U.S.A.
Re: 450 rigby vs 458 lott [Re: 9.3x57]
      #112380 - 24/08/08 12:54 PM

Great wood on your wood stocked rifles. Those are beautys. Wood like that's hard to come by and not cheap when you do find it.

--------------------
One day at a time...


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Ndumo
.300 member


Reged: 21/12/03
Posts: 230
Loc: Namibia
Re: 450 rigby vs 458 lott [Re: 9.3x57]
      #112398 - 24/08/08 06:22 PM

9Three, it is a bead, (see photo below) slightly small for aging eyes I have been told, but it works for me. All the metal and wood work was done by Gerrie Coetzee in Bloemfontein. The rear sight on the .450 is a wide V, single, robust (and solid) "blade".
I was lucky with the wood, some of it was traded/ swapped very cheap. Like the piece that ended up on the 9.3 I swapped for a sound moderator that cost me less than US$60!
Steve, yes, the .243 works well on baboons, but I mostly use it to cull springbok. (and the occational bigger animal like oryx.)



--------------------
Karl Stumpfe
Ndumo Hunting Safaris (Pty) Ltd.
karl@huntingsafaris.net
www.huntingsafaris.net
+264 811 285 416


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Jabs
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Reged: 24/08/08
Posts: 3
Loc: Rocky Mtns
Re: 450 rigby vs 458 lott [Re: Ndumo]
      #112438 - 25/08/08 02:04 AM

Beautiful rifles!

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ovny
.375 member


Reged: 19/06/08
Posts: 591
Loc: Spain
Re: 450 rigby vs 458 lott [Re: Jabs]
      #112523 - 25/08/08 10:46 PM

Certainly are a joy.

Oscar.

--------------------
I am Spanish


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Dave93
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Reged: 16/02/07
Posts: 26
Loc: Big Sky Country
Re: 450 rigby vs 458 lott [Re: ovny]
      #112650 - 27/08/08 03:19 AM

Great looking rifles!!! Great write up also. I'd Like to see you do one on your 9.3x64. I definately enjoyed this write as well as the photos.

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Ndumo
.300 member


Reged: 21/12/03
Posts: 230
Loc: Namibia
Re: 450 rigby vs 458 lott [Re: Dave93]
      #112741 - 28/08/08 12:39 AM

Quote:

Great looking rifles!!! Great write up also. I'd Like to see you do one on your 9.3x64. I definately enjoyed this write as well as the photos.




Dave93, I have done an article on the 9.3x64
I will see if I can get it uploaded onto my website, but I am leaving on an elephant hunt tomorrow.

--------------------
Karl Stumpfe
Ndumo Hunting Safaris (Pty) Ltd.
karl@huntingsafaris.net
www.huntingsafaris.net
+264 811 285 416


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Dave93
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Reged: 16/02/07
Posts: 26
Loc: Big Sky Country
Re: 450 rigby vs 458 lott [Re: Ndumo]
      #112769 - 28/08/08 07:18 AM

Karl, I will look forward to seeing the article on the 9.3x64. Good luck and good hunting

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Yochanan
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Reged: 26/01/03
Posts: 912
Loc: Volksdiktatur Schweden
Re: 450 rigby vs 458 lott [Re: Dave93]
      #132659 - 18/04/09 04:54 AM

450 Rigby rimless would be a perfect vehicle for 600 grain bullets.... if only some manufacturer made decent bullets in that weight.

/Johan

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© "I have never been able to appreciate 'shock' as applied to killing big game. It seems to me that you cannot kill an elephant weighing six tons by ´shock´unless you advocate the use of a field gun." - W.D.M. Bell: Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter.


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doubleriflenut
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Reged: 27/11/08
Posts: 106
Loc: Chile
Re: 450 rigby vs 458 lott [Re: xausa]
      #132715 - 18/04/09 11:32 PM

Very close!

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