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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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lovetherecoil
.224 member


Reged: 06/03/04
Posts: 11
Opinions on .458 Lott
      #11198 - 08/03/04 11:37 PM

I would like opinions on the .458 Lott. I like the idea that you can fire the .458 Winchester out of a rifle chambered for the Lott.

Could some of you please tell me the pros and cons of this cartridge?

Signed, "Lack of Experience in Maine"

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475Guy
.400 member


Reged: 22/08/03
Posts: 1088
Loc: Kali, US
Re: Opinions on .458 Lott [Re: lovetherecoil]
      #11202 - 09/03/04 01:58 AM

For one thing, the cartridge is cheap to reload and component bullets are easy to come by. You can even use unsized cast revolver bullets if you can get somebody to get you some that close to your bore size. I wouldn't use 458 WinMag's in it unless it was an emergency. The shorter case will fire-etch the area ahead of it and make the Lott brass flow into the fire-etched area, therefore stuck brass. Accuracy is as good as what you can hold without flinching. The Lott in my Ruger was a bit light and I added weight to it.

--------------------
Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.

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deant
.224 member


Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 47
Re: Opinions on .458 Lott [Re: lovetherecoil]
      #11203 - 09/03/04 01:59 AM

Some say you shouldnt fire 458 winmags very much as it can cause you problems. But in a pinch they will work.
good points to me
1.Bullets can be had reasonable
2.Many different bullets choices
3.Brass is reasonable "hornady"
4.Hornady factory loads can be had reasonable.
5.Several reasonable 458lott starter rifles on market.
6.Reloading dies are reasonable."hornady"

Bad points to some
1.Its a cannon and some cant shoot them well.
2.Its not a Rigby or Jeffery
3.Its becoming "common"

I have a 458 winmag I was going to take out to lott but I took a buffalo and elephant with it the way it is so ill leave her.
I had a ruger #1 in 458lott shot great but I sold it to build a 470capstick to be a little different
dean
Dean


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lovetherecoil
.224 member


Reged: 06/03/04
Posts: 11
Re: Opinions on .458 Lott [Re: deant]
      #11204 - 09/03/04 02:35 AM

Thanks fellas,
I wasn't aware of the possible problems of shooting the Winchester in the Lott chamber. I do like the bullet choices though. I keep switching my mind on the cartridge for the rifle I'm building, but this Lott is looking good.

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atkinson6
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Reged: 26/01/04
Posts: 678
Loc: Idaho
Re: Opinions on .458 Lott [Re: lovetherecoil]
      #11213 - 09/03/04 04:12 AM

the 458 Lott is probably the best our there, if one can handle the recoil, most cannot, many think they can...

That said, if you can shoot it without recoil being a factor in your mind when you pull the trigger, and you can do this from squatting, prone, bent over and in about any field position, then your sitting in the pound seats, it is one heck of a hammer, I can't imagine a better more practical round,...

But for me, and I have been shooting big bores all my life, I find it a little abusive and I have to concentrate on not flinching, so although I can shoot it at the range and even off the bench, I do not hunt with it, its just a bit much for me, as was my 505 Gibbs. I settled for the 404, 416 Rem in bolt guns..My heavey .470 is tolerable, at least to the extent that I can hunt with it...As to the Lott and I, its close but no cigar...

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ThomasEdwards
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Reged: 04/01/04
Posts: 246
Loc: Newport Beach, CA
Re: Opinions on .458 Lott [Re: atkinson6]
      #11220 - 09/03/04 05:52 AM

ray,

...would you say the 458lott is just as good/better than the 470ne?...on a related question, is this just essentially a turnbolt vs. double rifle matter?...

...also, does a 458lott really make sense for non-ph hunters who are not hunting elephant?...

...thanks for your thoughts...

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PAHunter
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Reged: 18/02/04
Posts: 24
Loc: Allentown, PA USA
Re: Opinions on .458 Lott [Re: lovetherecoil]
      #11228 - 09/03/04 08:24 AM

Hi Guys:

The 458 Lott rocks my world when I shoot it with Hornady Factory loads 500 grn @ 2350 FPS. I shoot it in a custom 12 lb rifle with two mercury recoil tubes in the stock, with a muzzle break, and it still rocks..

I have taken one Buff with a 416 Rem Mag, and I got up close and personal, that is why I bought the 458 Lott. I plan on hunting them again and probably Lion.

I also shoot a 300 RUM, 375 H&H, 458 Win Mag.. but I have reached my recoil level with the Lott, especially from a to low bench... ouch.

Regards... Jim P.

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475Guy
.400 member


Reged: 22/08/03
Posts: 1088
Loc: Kali, US
Re: Opinions on .458 Lott [Re: PAHunter]
      #11230 - 09/03/04 09:38 AM

Low Bench? You must be at one of those ranges with the mickey mouse low portal that you have to shoot through. You got to get upright in order to shoot the beast without getting a concussion. Every time I go to the range and test some new loads, I snag every sandbag that's not is use and build up my shooting position so that I can shoot upright. A whole lott less pain.

--------------------
Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.

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NONE
.300 member


Reged: 15/12/03
Posts: 110
Re: Opinions on .458 Lott [Re: lovetherecoil]
      #11236 - 09/03/04 10:06 AM

The Lott will hammer the hell out of you there is no question about it and off the bench its pretty bad, good thing is since I don't carry a bench with me hunting I do very little shooting from there. Now keep in mind I have yet to fire this rifle in anger at a moving bite back.

Freehand its a beast but doable now for qualification I am a pretty big guy and much younger then most here, my rifle has two recoil reducers a decel pad and a AHR X break one of the best looking and most effective breaks I have shot with. I can fire in about any conceivable position and the first 7-10 rounds are not bad considering, after that the blood running out of your nose tends to affect your shooting. I suggest you try one before buying one as Ray said its not for everyone and on the edge of what I can shoot effectively, I have no macho reason for trying to shoot to much rifle and I suggest you shoot what works for you they all kill well with proper placement and bullets.

I have tried a .577nitro and its just not for me the one I fired was light and that my friend is to much rifle for this guy, that said I hit what I was shooting at just I had to open my eyes to make sure I hit it.

James F. Nixon III

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lovetherecoil
.224 member


Reged: 06/03/04
Posts: 11
Re: Opinions on .458 Lott [Re: NONE]
      #11241 - 09/03/04 12:07 PM

Is there much difference between the recoil of the .458 Lott and the .458 Winchester?

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475Guy
.400 member


Reged: 22/08/03
Posts: 1088
Loc: Kali, US
Re: Opinions on .458 Lott [Re: lovetherecoil]
      #11249 - 09/03/04 03:05 PM

There sure is. The WinMag is about 1/4 to 1/3 the recoil of the Lott depending on who you talk to. I can shoot the WinMag all day long and still walk and chew bubblegum. I can stand the Lott only about 10 rounds on the bench while testing full loads for accuracy. The rest is just blasted off-hand.

--------------------
Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.

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lovetherecoil
.224 member


Reged: 06/03/04
Posts: 11
Re: Opinions on .458 Lott [Re: 475Guy]
      #11264 - 09/03/04 11:27 PM

I guess I don't understand completely. How can there be 3-4 times more recoil out of the Lott, when all dimensions of the cases are essentially the same, except that the Lott is 3/10 of an inch longer?

That extra recoil is from shooting the same weight bullets?

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deant
.224 member


Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 47
Re: Opinions on .458 Lott [Re: lovetherecoil]
      #11268 - 10/03/04 01:01 AM

Now I would have said my 458lott recoiled about 25% more than my 458winmag. Some of that I think was because the lott was a ruger#1 and had a crappy recoil pad.
When i first got my win mag she had a montey carlo stock and a crappy pad. after restocking and installing a decent pad the recoil dropped off.
With a winterhat folded up and put in my shoulder I could take 15 shots with the lott off a bench with no ill effects. The worst time i had was in Zim last year i shot about 10 from my lott ,6 or so from a 450 ackley about 10 from a 12gauge shotgun and a few from a 375hh. My head didnt hurt but it was hard to raise my arm up very far.
dean

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475Guy
.400 member


Reged: 22/08/03
Posts: 1088
Loc: Kali, US
Re: Opinions on .458 Lott [Re: lovetherecoil]
      #11269 - 10/03/04 02:45 AM

It's physics. The WinMag with a 500 gr will go about 2050 +/-. That same bullet is going out at 2300 +/- in the Lott. Often the Lott's have been lighter than they needed to be therefore increasing the felt recoil by a very subjective amount. I was a bit tongue-in-cheek in the above post. But the fact remains, the Lott will definitely recoil much more and comes back at you a bit faster than the WinMag. Just go to the simple 38 Spec. and 357 Mag. Let's say we shoot both cartridges in a 2" barrel. The 38 with a 125 gr will maybe go 900 +/-. That same bullet in a 357 will go 1200+/-. The difference in recoil in the two rounds is the difference between fun and pain.

--------------------
Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.

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475Guy
.400 member


Reged: 22/08/03
Posts: 1088
Loc: Kali, US
Re: Opinions on .458 Lott [Re: lovetherecoil]
      #11272 - 10/03/04 03:14 AM

OOPS! I just thought of a better example as I was running out the door. Shoot any run of the mill 4570 load going 1250 in a Marlin and then shoot one of the Buffalo Bores with it going out 1850 and the difference is apparent.

--------------------
Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.

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lovetherecoil
.224 member


Reged: 06/03/04
Posts: 11
Re: Opinions on .458 Lott [Re: 475Guy]
      #11276 - 10/03/04 05:33 AM

OK, that makes sense, as I've shot a lot of 38's and .357mag.

It is amazing what that extra 3/10th's of an inch can do for a guy.

Story of my life!

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475Guy
.400 member


Reged: 22/08/03
Posts: 1088
Loc: Kali, US
Re: Opinions on .458 Lott [Re: lovetherecoil]
      #11278 - 10/03/04 06:13 AM

Before I run out of the house again, might I ask you a question. Just how much experience do you have in shooting big stuff? This definitely has a bearing on whether you should try to take on a 458 Lott. I've been shooting since the 60's and it has a lot on how I approach the big guys everytime I light one off. On the whole, the 416 whether Rem or Rigby is at the most that non-bigbore shooters' thresh-hold of handling recoil. I just don't want you to end up with something you couldn't handle and be gunshy the rest of your life.

--------------------
Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.

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JKS
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Reged: 02/03/04
Posts: 14
Loc: Mount Vernon, WA, USA
Re: Opinions on .458 Lott [Re: 475Guy]
      #11293 - 10/03/04 11:13 AM

lovetherecoil,

I'll second what 475Guy and the rest have said. I wouldn't recommend the Lott shooting full house ammo for a big bore newbie. The Lott demands respect and propper handling. Off the bench it is tolerable (somewhat) from a high seated position but don't go low. I know better but made that mistake last Sunday and the recoil goes staight down your spine

That said it is a fun round and you KNOW you are putting some serious lead downrange. Handload and go from 45-70 levels on up to your recoil tolerance!

John

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475Guy
.400 member


Reged: 22/08/03
Posts: 1088
Loc: Kali, US
Re: Opinions on .458 Lott [Re: JKS]
      #11295 - 10/03/04 11:32 AM

JKS, how many stars did you see after shooting it in the low position? Maybe the Milky-way? I've often let guys shoot my toys anytime somebody asks. Half the time, they don't listen when they try to light one off as they shoot it in a low varmint-bench-position. That's where all the complaints about it recoiling 3-4 times my WinMag comes from. I've heard of some seeing stars hours after shooting big guys and found out later that is was incipient retinal separation. As you say, it takes preparation and will power to take the thumping.

--------------------
Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.

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JKS
.224 member


Reged: 02/03/04
Posts: 14
Loc: Mount Vernon, WA, USA
Re: Opinions on .458 Lott [Re: 475Guy]
      #11303 - 10/03/04 12:06 PM

475Guy,

You said it perfectly. It takes will power, determination and the DESIRE to shoot the bigger guys well. I got into the bigger bores for something different and the challenge of shooting them well. Sure I use them for NA hunting but partly as an excuse to own them! I'll admit it appeals to the macho side of me, but lets face it, shooting a boomer is a visceral thrill, and shooting one well is very satisfying. My "non big bore" friends think I'm nuts but that's okay

John

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lovetherecoil
.224 member


Reged: 06/03/04
Posts: 11
Re: Opinions on .458 Lott [Re: 475Guy]
      #11349 - 10/03/04 11:23 PM

Morning 475guy,
I don't have experience with the big bore rifles. I need some though. All I can go by is that whenever some of us get together to shoot, I'm about the only one who doesn't complain about recoil.
I'm not trying to sound tough, but it just doesn't seem to effect me like some. Much bigger friends don't understand it.

Having said that, I'm sure a 458 Lott would definitely "effect" me!
Although if I make the rifle into the Lott, I would handload some "softies" to start with.

The 416 Rigby is always in the back of my mind for the other choice.

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atkinson6
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Reged: 26/01/04
Posts: 678
Loc: Idaho
Re: Opinions on .458 Lott [Re: lovetherecoil]
      #11363 - 11/03/04 04:31 AM

ThomasEdwards,
The 458 Lott is a more powerfull rifle than the .470, end of story, but I cannot see that if kills any better..All the big bores kill about the same IMO...I seem to handle the double rifle and 470 better than the bolt 458, at least in the recoil dept....

That said, I have never found the 416s or 404 lacking in killing power, or for that matter the 375 H&H, and based on that I see little reason to take a lick'en...........

When most of these guys get in close on a buff and their adrenaline gets pumped and they kill old dagga boy with a couple of shots with their 416, but he didn't drop to the shot, they automatically come back the following year ala PAHunter posts with a bigger hammer, and like PA they will find that on an average, they get the same reaction from the Lott, 505 or whatever that they got with the 416, it takes a couple of shots and he runs a bit...

Only on the internet and in a few periodicals dose Mr. Daggas feet come out from under him and he hits the dirt like a sack of potatoes. When he does however, be it a 9.3, 375 or 600 Nitro, then that one instance carves that hunters mind into sudden expertise and he will expound greatly on whatever caliber did the deed..It will forever be his "old Betsy", the killing machine...In reality he probably hit the spine...

Same thing happens in the elk camps of Idaho, the 338s, for example, are as good a killers as the 375 as a matter of fact, but not on paper...

I place more emphasis on bullet construction and proper bullet placement than on caliber...and I would prefer a .470 over a 458 Lott because I can have the .470 in a double rifle...

The Lott is certainly a great caliber as is the 500 Jefferys and 505 Gibbs..but they don't perform miracles, good shooting does that..

Have you ever noticed that many who shoot the 458 Lott and up lose their grip on the rifle in recoil, yes it happens often and thats not condusive to the second shot....

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ThomasEdwards
.300 member


Reged: 04/01/04
Posts: 246
Loc: Newport Beach, CA
Re: Opinions on .458 Lott [Re: atkinson6]
      #11370 - 11/03/04 05:53 AM

ray,

...many thanks for responding...

...nothing like injecting a dose of reality into the marketing-hype bubble through real-life (vs. virtual) experience...

...every thing that you have said is but a modern-day rendition of what pondoro taylor and others have been saying for almost 100+ years...terminal performance, ability to place shots well, bullet construction, quick first shots with prompt followup shots...

...i think i will stick with my .416 rigby turnbolt and 9.3 double for dg, and an assortment of medium/small bores for the rest...

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PAHunter
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Reged: 18/02/04
Posts: 24
Loc: Allentown, PA USA
Re: Opinions on .458 Lott [Re: atkinson6]
      #11379 - 11/03/04 09:27 AM

Hey Ray:

If I get in close and personal with a Buff again, and I can shoot a bigger stick ala 458 Lott compared to a 416 Rem Mag, and it makes me feel better so be it.

It may NOT kill any better, but it sure does make me feel better knowing that I am shooting the biggest bore I can handle accurately.

Regards... Jim P.

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475Guy
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Reged: 22/08/03
Posts: 1088
Loc: Kali, US
Re: Opinions on .458 Lott [Re: lovetherecoil]
      #11400 - 11/03/04 03:38 PM

ltr, you have got the right attitude. You have to want to be pounded in order to toughen your nerve endings so that you don't develop a nervous flinch. Also, too much of a good thing is bad. Limit yourself to a few rounds and increase the number of shots the next time out. It's like Martial Arts, you have to learn to take the pounding before you can appreciate the technique enough to execute it. If you were in Kalifornia, I'd let you play with a couple of toys.

--------------------
Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.

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