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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Paradox and Bore Guns
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beleg2
.375 member


Reged: 15/08/07
Posts: 591
Loc: Bahía Blanca - Argentina
Rifled shotguns
      #111762 - 13/08/08 10:03 PM

Hi,
I do not know if it is correct to ask questions about slide action rifled shotgun here.
Feel free to move it if belongs to another forum.

I saw a Mosberg slide action shotgun with rifled barrels.
Most of these guns are rifled for sabot but I would like to use roundball or a short bullet.
How they shot?

Thanks
Martin

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Tatume
.400 member


Reged: 09/06/07
Posts: 1091
Loc: Gloucester, Va USA
Re: Rifled shotguns [Re: beleg2]
      #111763 - 13/08/08 10:09 PM

Dear Martin,

Mine is an H&R single shot, the 12 ga Ultra Slug model. It shoots very well indeed with Foster-type slugs, and even better with saboted bullets. I have no experience with roundballs in the shotgun, nor the Mossberg rifled barrels.

Take care, Tom

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26516
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Rifled shotguns [Re: Tatume]
      #111766 - 13/08/08 11:59 PM

Martin- most of the rifled shorguns have a 36" twist. Were I to make one up for shooting round balls I'd like a slower twist, something like 60" or a bit slower yet.

A modern 2 3/4" plastic case has the capacity to drive 490gr. to 590gr. round balls (depending on the size & method of wadding) to just over 1,500fps with black powder or smokeless. Trouble is, a 12 bore barrel of modern steel in these twist rates is not generally available.

A viable possibility is to find a short, 26" barrel with a tight full choke. Then, the choke can be rifled as in a Paradox double. This should give rifling of .020" depth per side (40 'points' of choke total). A barrel with an 'extra full' designation should give a bit more depth, which would be even better.

A rifling bench can be made using a slow twist muzzleloading barrel as a guide. GM barrels in .50 and .54 cal. have 70" to 80" twists and would be perfect. The rifling guide runs through the muzzleoading barrel having a lead guide on that piece of rod that takes it's rifling in the rifled barrel. this rod then extends into the shotgun barrel with the cutter in the shotgun barrel. The lead plug in the muzzleloading barrel is guided by it's rifling and this turns the cutter in the shotgun barrel. The depth of rifling is controlled by the one who is rifling the barrel and should go to almost the depth of the 12 bore tube, perhaps a thousanth or 2 tighter. The muzzleloading guide barrel only have to be about 10" in length, and could even be a bit shorter.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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beleg2
.375 member


Reged: 15/08/07
Posts: 591
Loc: Bahía Blanca - Argentina
Re: Rifled shotguns [Re: DarylS]
      #111775 - 14/08/08 04:56 AM

Thanks Tatume and Daryl.
I was looking for a bore rifle to use with roundball or bullets casted by myself.
Here gunlaws are geting more restrictive and it will be very difficult to get sabots.
I have consider the option on rifling a choke but it will take some time to plan it.
I was looking for a smooth barreled shotgun with sights for shooting balls when I found this Mosberg. The mosberg must have better accuracy, I presume.
Thanks
Martin

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Tatume
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Reged: 09/06/07
Posts: 1091
Loc: Gloucester, Va USA
Re: Rifled shotguns [Re: beleg2]
      #111777 - 14/08/08 06:01 AM

Martin,

You should search on and read Daryl's writings on smooth-bore round ball shooting. He has had great success and considerable accuracy with smooth bore guns to 100 yards and more.

Take care, Tom

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26516
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Rifled shotguns [Re: Tatume]
      #111807 - 14/08/08 11:31 AM

Tom's right, Martin - with round balls and cupped gas-check wads upsidedown, I've achieved some realistic big game grouping at 100 meters. With iron sights, shooting offhand with 2 lefts and 2 rights I've managed all 4 on an 8" to 10" plate at 100 meters. This, from a double smoothbore. My buddies ask me for more of the .684" balls about every other year for their duck guns. They pack round ball loads in case a moose or deer comes down for a drink. They've got both birds and a freezer full of red meat on the same trip more than once. They use the same loads for the round balls as for ducks, only use a thin t-shirt patch as if for a muzzleloader.

I use a wad column consisting of a cup gas check cut off a used trap wad over the powder, then fiber or card wads necessary to fill the case to another gas-check cur off a trap wad, sitting cup-up. The ball sits in this and I fold crimp over the ball.

Lyman has data listing wad columns they've worked up using a .690" ball. Putting the base gas check wad cup-up centres the ball as it travels down the tube. Failure to do this will greatly increase group sizes. A .690" ball will just pass through a full choke in a 12 bore and that's the reason Lyman uses it.

Lyman also sells a mould that casts a short waisted slug that fits inside a 12 gauge cup and is supposed to give good accuracy. The slugs weigh 506g.r in WW metal and about 525gr. in pure lead. They call it a sabot mould as the field shooting plastic wad is the sabot. this wasted slug inside the shot cup might shoot well from a comercial rifled barrel. The twist is about right.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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shinz
.300 member


Reged: 11/05/08
Posts: 135
Loc: New Zealand
Re: Rifled shotguns [Re: DarylS]
      #111825 - 14/08/08 10:19 PM

Quote:


Lyman also sells a mould that casts a short waisted slug that fits inside a 12 gauge cup and is supposed to give good accuracy. The slugs weigh 506g.r in WW metal and about 525gr. in pure lead. They call it a sabot mould as the field shooting plastic wad is the sabot. this wasted slug inside the shot cup might shoot well from a comercial rifled barrel. The twist is about right.



Lee also sell a slug mold designed to be used with WAA12 shot cups. After an earlier thread about rifled 12G barrels on Greener GPs I did some googling for the Lee slugs, there were various reports, but enough positive to make me want to try the Lee before I'd go for the Lyman on a cost basis alone. The secret with shooting the Lee slugs seemed to be to put a felt wad in the shot cup before the slug so the slug didn't dig into the wad & distort it which seemed to adversely affect accuracy. I reckoned too that to trim the wad petals back to just behind the nose of the slug would ensure the crimp folds didn't push the wad petals over the nose of the slug preventing a clean drop off which might also affect accuracy. It will be nice to try the theory at some stage.
Steve

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beleg2
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Reged: 15/08/07
Posts: 591
Loc: Bahía Blanca - Argentina
Re: Rifled shotguns [Re: shinz]
      #111827 - 14/08/08 11:37 PM

Thanks for your advises.
Martin

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xsheadspace
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Reged: 09/07/08
Posts: 28
Loc: Upstate NY
Re: Rifled shotguns [Re: beleg2]
      #112097 - 19/08/08 04:21 AM

Just because the twist is faster than ideal, doesn't mean that it won't be better than a smoothbore. Try some roundballs, like .69-.70" size in a plastic cup wad with an extra cushion wad under the ball. Use powder data for the 1 oz shotshell load.

--------------------
hippie redneck geezer

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