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reflex264
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Reged: 20/01/08
Posts: 50
Loc: TN
got my .450 lever custom back
      #109671 - 13/07/08 02:03 PM

Here is my latest toy. .450 Marlin, extended mag tube,converted to pistol grip,XLR stocks, WWG ejector, action tuned and trigger job. It is a shooter. Much improved feel and pointing over a standard guide gun. 4000flbs capible safely. Did some rapid fire drills today. Perfect. Hope you fellers like it. reflex264

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bigmaxx
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Reged: 13/06/07
Posts: 660
Loc: Bowling Green KY U.S.A.
Re: got my .450 lever custom back [Re: reflex264]
      #109685 - 13/07/08 11:11 PM

I really like it! I have a factory .450 Marlin guide model with open sights I use as a woods rifle for whitetails and take along for boar too. I may actually scope it this year with a low power job. I like it for walking cedar thickets and when weather precludes scoped rifles being used. That .450 is a thumper. I couldnt believe how accurate they are. I started using the Hornady leverevolutions. Awesome rifle you have there. They put alot of bullets in the air fast!

--------------------
One day at a time...

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ovny
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Reged: 19/06/08
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Re: got my .450 lever custom back [Re: bigmaxx]
      #122694 - 31/12/08 08:10 PM

It is very nice, and the caliber Marlin 450 has to be really strong. I hope you enjoy it a lot in their hunt. In my country there is little tradition of respect to weapons of leverage, but I think it is ideal for his handling of hunting for places in Spain because the dumps are short and tangled, just to get used to the action of the weapon.

Best regards,

Oscar.

--------------------
I am Spanish

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: got my .450 lever custom back [Re: ovny]
      #122717 - 01/01/09 12:41 AM

Nice rifle!

I have had several Marlin .45-70's.

The one I have now I got in the first year of Ballard rifling and I like it alot.

Question, with heavy loads, has the forestock ever loosened? Mine did just a smidge so I bedded it in Acraglas and so far no more problems.

Thanks for posting.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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KWard375
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Reged: 26/03/06
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Re: got my .450 lever custom back [Re: 9.3x57]
      #124310 - 17/01/09 01:04 PM

Very nice looking Marlin, I have a 45-70 model before they introduced the .450.

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reflex264
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Reged: 20/01/08
Posts: 50
Loc: TN
Re: got my .450 lever custom back [Re: reflex264]
      #128632 - 03/03/09 05:19 PM

Well gentlemen, after killing a few deer with it I finally got to shoot something bigger. I shot this water buffalo on a hunting preserve this past Friday. The rifle and load did a great job. It was 4 hours from the time we first started after them till I got my shot. The guide said he has seen them shot with everything and never saw one taken down this fast. I was using JBY Crater Lite 420grs. The first shot broke the leg toward me and took out the front of the lungs, exited the ribs on the off side and did enough damage to the other leg that the buff couldn't run. I eased up and put another bullet right through the heart and a stream of blood about 3/4" in diameter squirted out about 4' from the buff. It began to stagger and then went down. Not exactly like hunting the NT but a good warm up for that trip which I hope to make in two years. Enjoy the pics. reflex264

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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3591
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: got my .450 lever custom back [Re: reflex264]
      #128651 - 03/03/09 11:58 PM

Congratulations, mate.
Those things sure do have wild-lookin' head-gear...

A good warm-up indeed!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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DoubleD
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Reged: 23/11/03
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Re: got my .450 lever custom back [Re: Marrakai]
      #128652 - 04/03/09 12:24 AM

Who built the Rifle?

--------------------
DD, Ret.

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Mike_Bailey
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Reged: 26/02/07
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Re: got my .450 lever custom back [Re: DoubleD]
      #128654 - 04/03/09 12:30 AM

Oscar, you are spot on, I use a Marlin .44 down here in Huelva in the thick stuff, best, Mike

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: got my .450 lever custom back [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #128657 - 04/03/09 12:40 AM

Nice job and where in the heck is DDouble? Looks like you snuck into his secret spot down there in Brazil!!

Nice job and yes, those Marlins are GREAT guns.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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bonanza
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Re: got my .450 lever custom back [Re: reflex264]
      #128665 - 04/03/09 01:12 AM

A beautiful example of form follows function. I bet that puppy rocks your world when you touch one off.

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26992
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: got my .450 lever custom back [Re: bonanza]
      #128674 - 04/03/09 03:52 AM

Reflex - great job - wonderful rifle with largely under-rated potential.

now - that bullet 420gr. Craterlite whassat? Is it solid? Is it a soft? What were the ballistics? What was the range of the shooting, al please? More input!

Incredible penetration! Onside leg, lungs, exit into offside leg and wreck it too? Wow!

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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bigmaxx
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Reged: 13/06/07
Posts: 660
Loc: Bowling Green KY U.S.A.
Re: got my .450 lever custom back [Re: DarylS]
      #128696 - 04/03/09 07:22 AM

Looks like Wilderness Hunting Lodge, is it? Is your .450 ported?

--------------------
One day at a time...

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reflex264
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Reged: 20/01/08
Posts: 50
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Re: got my .450 lever custom back [Re: bigmaxx]
      #128720 - 04/03/09 01:00 PM

Hey fellers. The gun isn't ported. I would rather have a bit of recoil as the noise. It is at Wilderness Hunting Lodge. The rifle was a combination of Jim Brockman and myself. Jim did the tube and got it feeding slicker than anything I have ever shot. I changed it over to the pistol grip frame and put the XLR stocks on it. It has a trigger job, WWG Bear Proof ejector and a M8-2.5 Leupold in Leupold mounts. The Bullets are cast bullets by Jae Bok Young and are among the best I have ever shot. They are just hard enough to break bones and just maleable enough to hang together even on the big leg bones. The bullet recovered from the off side still weighed 294.0grs or retained 70% of its original weight. These bullets have a huge meplat so teh initial impact hole is cut like a cookie cutter and stays open. I took the shot at 50 yards after trying to get a shot for 4 hours. The beast was imobilized and would have died but I put the shot right through the heart to expidite matters. The load shot the 420gr at 1785fps. This was the maximum velocity with the powder I used. This also happens to be the optimum velocity fro damage to the ballistic buff. It is fast enough to break bones bit slow enough as to not destropy the bullet so it can continue to cause massive trauma. The pistol grip vs. the straight stock allows the recoil to be directed straight back. I know what some are thinking, wouldn't a straight stock come straight back? In 2 years of testing the straight stock gun consistently raised the muzzle taking your eyes off the target increasing the time to recover for a second shot. I was ready to put a aimed shot if needed right through the eyeball in less than one second after the first. Here is the Crater Lite Bullet. reflex264

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: got my .450 lever custom back [Re: reflex264]
      #128727 - 04/03/09 02:46 PM

TKS reflex264. Rather surprising results at such load speeds, however the range didn't slow the bullet much from it's initial velocity.

That's a huge meplat. Cool! appears to be lubed with LBT Blue. I still have some of the 'box' I bought back in the 70's, but used it mainly for speeds over 2,200fps in .375's and smaller. Good stuff, but I've found ordinary SPG, and Lyman Moly work fine in large bores for up to 2,200fps.

I wouldn't mind getting a few of those to try in my .45/60 Sharps. Even though the case is only 1.9" long, I get slightly longer (2.650" to 2.750") loaded length than a Marlin allows with the same bullets, due to the leade and throat in my rifle. Along with the 35" barrel, I should still get similar ballistics to those you have indicated, but with reduced pressure of course - dependent on the powder used. I've been loading long enough to know to start low and work as pressure indicates.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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reflex264
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Reged: 20/01/08
Posts: 50
Loc: TN
Re: got my .450 lever custom back [Re: DarylS]
      #128733 - 04/03/09 03:31 PM

Quote:

TKS reflex264. Rather surprising results at such load speeds, however the range didn't slow the bullet much from it's initial velocity.

That's a huge meplat. Cool! appears to be lubed with LBT Blue. I still have some of the 'box' I bought back in the 70's, but used it mainly for speeds over 2,200fps in .375's and smaller. Good stuff, but I've found ordinary SPG, and Lyman Moly work fine in large bores for up to 2,200fps.

I wouldn't mind getting a few of those to try in my .45/60 Sharps. Even though the case is only 1.9" long, I get slightly longer (2.650" to 2.750") loaded length than a Marlin allows with the same bullets, due to the leade and throat in my rifle. Along with the 35" barrel, I should still get similar ballistics to those you have indicated, but with reduced pressure of course - dependent on the powder used. I've been loading long enough to know to start low and work as pressure indicates.



Here is a good place to start. This is my pressure data for the bullets. reflex264
crater data

Edited by reflex264 (04/03/09 03:36 PM)

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reflex264
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Reged: 20/01/08
Posts: 50
Loc: TN
Re: got my .450 lever custom back [Re: reflex264]
      #128734 - 04/03/09 03:42 PM

Here are some more pics. The first one shows the gapeing hole in the heart.


the buff showing where the blood was pouring out like a firehose. We had to clean things up for the pretty pictures.

this one shows how wide the animal realy was. Huge


Edited by reflex264 (04/03/09 03:44 PM)

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: got my .450 lever custom back [Re: DarylS]
      #128743 - 05/03/09 12:55 AM

Quote:

TKS reflex264. Rather surprising results at such load speeds



I don't think it is suprising at all.

Take a step further down and it can be seen where this development hails from. Heavy sixgun shooters know that they are up against it with the possible speed limitations set by their handguns and bullet design is critical. Wide meplats make a very significant difference in terminal effect of short-range rounds. Relatively small changes in tip design make substantial differences in terminal effect.

Elmer sort of started the ball rolling with his original Keith design for the .44 sixguns and the concept has been refined since, with handgun lessons maybe 20 years ago transfered to the .45-70 and then .450 Marlin rounds.

As I {we} have said in the past, the .45-70/.450 Marlin cartridges are not .458 Lotts, but they do possess far more short-range performance potential than .30-06-class rounds on game of any size.

The performance of my Lee 402 grain Hollow Point load jogging at 1640 fps from my .45-70 Marlin has to be seen to be believed. It is not a "big flat meplat"-type bullet, but approaches the challenge from a different angle; Heavy Hollow Point. When most read "Hollow Point" they think fast, explosive disintegration. Nothing could be farther from the truth. In extensive testing and game shooting of deer, bear and range cattle I am absolutely prepared to state that this bullet/load combination is the full equal at short range of the .375 H&H Magnum {with soft-point bullets of whatever type} against which I have tested it time and time again.

It must be understood that proper bullet design combined with the short range at which maximum velocity is held are the keys to the type of performance touted by many experienced .45-70/.450 Marlin shooters. I believe it is a true statement to say that many who have experience with the NE rounds but not with the .45-70/.450 Marlin do not understand the level of killing performance capable by the .45-70/.450 class rounds. Also true is that there are alot of internet junkies who think the .45-70 is the equal to the .450 class NE rounds which it is not.

Regardless, EXPERIENCED shooters of these rounds know their capabilities.

The Marlin is a very well-balanced, fast handling rifle and loads can be assembled that both keep recoil to very manageable levels AND provide terminal effect far beyond that of the .30-06 class rounds.

Reflex, what did you do to slick up the feeding of your rifle? Mine works just fine, but I am curious...

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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reflex264
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Reged: 20/01/08
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Loc: TN
Re: got my .450 lever custom back [Re: 9.3x57]
      #128795 - 05/03/09 02:07 PM

Reflex, what did you do to slick up the feeding of your rifle? Mine works just fine, but I am curious...


After breaking the rifle in I polished all the surfaces with witness marks where wear was taking place. The ramp on the lifter was not perfect even though it fed OK. I also polished the back side of the loading gate to make it easier to feed more rounds into. It was already easier to load than my 45/70s but this made it much better. After Brockman did the extended mag tube he did something else to it because feeding is as smooth as butter. I too have tested 45/70 and 450 vs. .375, .416 taylor and .416 Rigby. It is simply amazing that the smaller rounds will hang in there to a certain extent with the big boys but make no mistake: the big .416s out power the .450 and 45/70 and especialy at long range. The gent that carried me was amazed by the damage done by the rifle and cartridge. He said most of the time Buff shot with any normal big guns such as the .375 and .416s run off 50 to 100 yards before turning around to see what happened. I asked him if the hunters that have had this happen used solids of expanding bullets. Solids. Wound looks like someone pushed a pencil through the heart and lungs. If I carryu one of my .416s to the NT it will be loaded with 400gr partitions for the first shot. reflex264

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bigmaxx
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Re: got my .450 lever custom back [Re: reflex264]
      #128822 - 06/03/09 04:24 AM

I love Wilderness Hunting Lodge. I boar hunt there. Didnt get to go this year. Blew all my funds in Zimbabwe! I have a ported Marlin .450 I have had for a while. It is loud, but thats the way it came. I am thinking about a low powered scope. Nice rifles.

--------------------
One day at a time...

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DarylS
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Re: got my .450 lever custom back [Re: bigmaxx]
      #128835 - 06/03/09 07:06 AM

Reflex and 9.3 - you guys have hit the nail directly on it's head.

If you want to see better ballistics from either the .45/70, or much easier yet, from the .450 Marlin, you have to put them in bolt guns or single shot Rugers. Then they come even closer to the .416 and .458's, but they still aren't EQUAL. - Closer than from a lever gun, but not equal as they won't put of the same weight bullets out the muzzle at the same velocity.

If the .450 Marlin's chamber (bolt or single) had a 3/8" free-bore, allowing longer seating length, it will develope ballistics the same as a modern 2.4" (.45/90)BUt- it still won't equal a .458 - especially if the .458 also has the normal long leade or freebore.

Example - from a Mk 10 Mauser, my .458 Alaskan (.458 2") with 3/8" freebore, gots 2,060fps with 500gr. Hornadys(4,713fpe). Compared to down loaded .458 Win Mags. it's equal, but compared to properly loaded .458 WinMags, it's still behind by 100fps or slightly more. Is it noticable on game? - maybe not with premium bullets - but who cares - quibbling. I've loaded 400gr. to 420gr. bullets to 2,200fps (4,515fpe). Not quite maximum, but good enough for anything this side of Mars - IF the proper bullet is used. Yes - as Brian P. said, the .45/70 Marlins attained a poor rep in Africa right off the bat due to the bullets some hunters tried to use on buffalo - good heavens - a 300gr. factory load? - talk about ignorant people!

Bear in mind, a .45 cal. will usually produce close to 100fps higher velocity with a cast bullet than jacketed. I never tried the RCBS 525gr. at more than 1,900fps - they killed wolves and moose just fine at that spped- rather excessive, actually - but fun. Oh yeah - that's only 4,209fpe - considerbly short of the .458Mags. etc.

The .450 Marlin's 2.1" case, with appropriate freebore or leade in a bolt or single action gun will give identical or slighty better ballistics than my 2" case will, but it must have the appropriate chamber leade to do it. Evenw it more power available, I often held 400gr.-type bullets, cast and jacketed to around 1,900to 2,000fps due to easier(on me) shooting - speeds which are easily matched & exceeded with a Marlin, using appropriate powders either the .45/70 or .450 Marlin will do.

The Leverguns have a very short leade and maximum overall length, limiting powder space. This hurts the performance in comparrison, BUT - they are very effectvie, even with this shortcomming. The M86 Browning/Winchesters allow longer bullet seating for the .45/70 and increased performance over the Marlin - Maybe noticable on game, maybe not. Once you get voer about 1,600fps or 1,700fps range, these 'old' designed ctgs. are VERY effective on most anything - IF the proper bullet is used.

There is no arguing with Rod's, reflex's or even my meager testing & performance on game with these rounds. They work & work well. I was very impressed with my first .458 2"(worn out kinda - 15,000 rounds), long throat, so I bought the $160.00 reamer. This was so I'd always be able to build another - I merely needed another action to build my 3rd - that action showed up 5 days ago. Now I need a bolt for the action - and a barrel and a stock - got the reamer though, and the lathe - downhill from here - actually would prefer a .450 Marlin Stainless with 22" bl. Oh well.

I'm glad reflex brought this forward, posting pictures of his buffalo and all the performance and link info - excellent thread. The photo's are great.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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reflex264
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Re: got my .450 lever custom back [Re: DarylS]
      #128838 - 06/03/09 07:50 AM

Daryl S, you might be intersted in a rifle being built by Gatlinguns as I type this. It is a .450 Marlin on a FN. I will probably get to do the load workup for it. He is supposed to have it done soon so I should have pics to post. Using the 550gr JBY Borerider I expect to crowd 2000fps. reflex264

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reflex264
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Reged: 20/01/08
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Loc: TN
Re: got my .450 lever custom back [Re: bigmaxx]
      #128839 - 06/03/09 07:56 AM

Quote:

I love Wilderness Hunting Lodge. I boar hunt there. Didnt get to go this year. Blew all my funds in Zimbabwe! I have a ported Marlin .450 I have had for a while. It is loud, but thats the way it came. I am thinking about a low powered scope. Nice rifles.



I carried my .416 Rigby as a back up and intented on getting a hog with it. Unfortunatly I got sick and retirned home one day early. Who knows, we might run into each other up there. reflex264

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DarylS
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Re: got my .450 lever custom back [Re: reflex264]
      #128927 - 07/03/09 04:09 AM

That FN will be an interesting gun. If a normal lever-gun chamber is cut, I would be surprised to see 2,000fps with that bullet.

Standard heavy Marlin .45/70 and .450M ballistics are what Frank Barnes had in mind when designing the .458 2" bolt rifle ctg. -around 2,000fps with a 400gr. seemed to be his goal.

Wil Hafler has an excellent article on the .458 2" in Big Bore Rifles and Ctgs., but his loads are, I assume, for a shorter throated chamber than I had. Still very impressive @ 2,150fps with 400gr.

H335 is one of the best powders for this round, I found. I used 68.0gr. for 350, 400 and 500gr. bullets and all sub MOA to 200 yards. There was not the spread of velocities you'd expect. I also experimented with John Buhmiller's double primer loading for straight cases - with excellent and surprising results, but that's another topic.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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reflex264
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Reged: 20/01/08
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Loc: TN
Re: got my .450 lever custom back [Re: DarylS]
      #128953 - 07/03/09 04:43 PM

The lovely thing about the JBY 550gr Crater 2 is that with a LFC die you and seat the bullet at any depth that will fit your magazine well and work up loads accordingly. I carried this all the way to the extreme while working with my 45/70 Ruger #1. In the .450 Marlin bolt action that bullet can be seated to allow a bunch of powder (within reason) and should easily attain 2000+fps. reflex264

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