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hoppdoc
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What caliber for a 1st Double??
      #108915 - 04/07/08 11:53 AM

OK Guys--

Go back in time before you bought your first Double--

With everything you know now WHAT CALIBER would you prefer for your 1st Double ??

WHY??
What caliber for your 1st Double??
You may choose only one
22
6.5x57R
7x57R
8x57
9.3x74R
375
450/400
470
500
577
which other caliber??


Votes accepted from (04/07/08 11:51 AM) to (No end specified)
You must vote before you can view the results of this poll



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hoppdoc
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Re: What caliber for a 1st Double?? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #108918 - 04/07/08 12:02 PM

Sorry--

Left out the 30 caliber niche--
Which caliber?
You may choose only one
30.06
30 Blaser
300 Mag


Votes accepted from (04/07/08 12:02 PM) to (No end specified)
You must vote before you can view the results of this poll



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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: What caliber for a 1st Double?? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #108928 - 04/07/08 04:31 PM

I voted for the .450/.400 but either that or a .500/.416.

With and without a scope. For hunting versatility.

Ended up buying a vintage .450. Which is not on the list.

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John aka NitroX

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Ripp
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Re: What caliber for a 1st Double?? [Re: NitroX]
      #108961 - 05/07/08 12:03 AM

I voted for the 500 Nitro simply because I am really fascinated with that caliber, recoil has never really bothered me and I love to hunt dangerous game..think the 500 would be the only double one would ever need..now want is an entirely different issue..

Ripp

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tinker
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Re: What caliber for a 1st Double?? [Re: Ripp]
      #108972 - 05/07/08 01:41 AM

Ripp-

On needs, I end up having much, much more need for my rimfire SxS than any of my centerfire rifles.

Although I don't keep count, based on one every other week I kill at least 25 squirrels a year with it, and at least as many pigeons.
Mice and opossum, the occasional nasty-ass pond-scum of the gene pool stray cat, and two raccon have gone down to my tiniest double.

That's all around-the-house and around-the-shop day to day urban varmint control.
In value to my structures (roofs primarily) alone, my little rimfire double has paid for itself many times over.

There's even a modern production example of what I have (9mmrimfire X 22lr), and they don't cost much, I think a Spanish outfit is making them.

For what this thread is all about, I'm happy with what I have and whatever order it was that I got into and out of my doubles.

I very, very much believe that if there was a good, solid 22lr double rifle available in the sub five grand USD neighborhood that they'd sell well -- and that it would make the absolute best first double rifle for everyone.
From my experience, I feel that such rifles would never leave their owners' sides.



--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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mickey
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Re: What caliber for a 1st Double?? [Re: tinker]
      #108998 - 05/07/08 08:16 AM

I picked the 9.3 as a first Double. To me it is the most useful all arounder listed. Tough choice though.

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Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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foxfire
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Re: What caliber for a 1st Double?? [Re: mickey]
      #109016 - 05/07/08 12:10 PM

When I bought my first double it came with three sets of barrels a 7x65R, 9.3x74R and a 470. The first to draw blood and see the most use is the 7x65R it has a few whitetail and a Fallow Buck easy to carry and a pleasure to shoot. Next the 9.3x74R saw an Aoudad and a couple of whitetail also nice to shoot and a little heavier to carry around. Last the 470 has seen a few boar, it might see more use when I finally make it to Africa but for the most part it's heavy as hell and really useless here in the states except shooting pigs for practice.

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walksfar
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Re: What caliber for a 1st Double?? [Re: foxfire]
      #109018 - 05/07/08 12:14 PM

Depends on what you'll use it for.
Can't go wrong with a 450/400 3".
All-around gun for sure is what that is.

--------------------
..Faith in God and the Mauser...

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4seventy
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Re: What caliber for a 1st Double?? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #109028 - 05/07/08 03:04 PM

I just love the humble 400-350 NE, but it's not on the list.
Therefore I'd say for a medium, 9.3x74R would be the go, and if I was after a large bore, the .470.
The .470 is copping a popularity flogging from the 450-400 NE at present, but the .470 is a great cartridge in its own right.


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hoppdoc
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Re: What caliber for a 1st Double?? [Re: 4seventy]
      #109045 - 05/07/08 07:42 PM

For a rifle that can be used like most feel a Double was intended--the 9.3x74R is flexible, fun, and reeks of Double class and functionality.

Yes,a 450/400 would be right there for fun shooting and hunting for any American big game possible--It makes me Drool just to think of hunting elk/moose/bear with one--

But I could use the 9.3 on deer/pigs and smaller stuff and not feel ridiculous and overgunned!!

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: What caliber for a 1st Double?? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #109050 - 05/07/08 10:16 PM

Here's a nod to the 9.3x74R.

Curl

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YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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DarylS
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Re: What caliber for a 1st Double?? [Re: CptCurl]
      #109055 - 06/07/08 12:03 AM

HA!- me too, Curl - 9.3x74 - it would fit into my hunting style perfectly, as well as make a great guide rifle too.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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tinker
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Re: What caliber for a 1st Double?? [Re: DarylS]
      #109062 - 06/07/08 03:12 AM

Finally actually chose a caliber to put in the poll.


I'm sticking with the .22
I really love my big bore and borerifle dobles, the Jules Bury 8x60R BoxlockEjector is the ultra sex machine...

The 22 is something I use almost every day though.
It keeps me fresh and quick shooting fast over the iron sights, I'm doing rapid reloads and getting back on the sights scanning the field, and it's accurate and deadly on a seemingly unextinguishable, neverending population of aggressive urban (downtown oakland!) varmints.
The little double keeps me 'on it' year round.

Furthermore, there's zero recoil and zero muzzle report with my preferred ammunition, the CCI CB long.
My daily practice is nearly free in respect to ammo cost, and there's no sight/sound to bother the neighbors.
I can even shoot it inside the house (I have a good 50 foot 'range' inside the house I can use when the wife/kids are gone and 40' indoor in my machineshop behind the house.)

Last/not least is possibly the neatest feature of all.
My children will be learning to shoot over the iron sights of a SxS double!!


--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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Yves
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Re: What caliber for a 1st Double?? [Re: tinker]
      #109077 - 06/07/08 09:30 AM

Hello All,

I see I am in the minority with recommending the 8x57 caliber. Here is my reasoning. The 8x57 is useful for any U.S. hunting except possibly for the biggest dangerous game (in the hands of an average hunter). My choice is based on ready availability of hunting and plinking ammo and the occasion to practice a lot and take the piece out often so I am really good with it. Then, if I am able to go on an Aussie or African hunt I can sell it or trade it for a larger caliber rifle to hunt large plains or dangerous game. There is certainly nothing wrong with the other caliber choices but the question was for a FIRST choice, and for me meant one I would use often. I suppose many of the chaps answering the question thought they would only own a double rifle once in their lifetime so chose a caliber useful for Africa and other places. BUT, I don't think many are likely to take out their 9.3mm or 450x400's to the practice range more than once or twice and certainly not for a couple boxes of ammo like I do with my smaller caliber rifles. Sure, any big bore will kill a pig or white tail deer and I applaud those who occasionally exercise their big bores for that purpose. Remember too, the recommendation will be considered by newbies looking for a first double. Why recommend a thundering powerhouse blaster when what they really need is something they will take to the field to shoot often? Later, if they want to hunt with an expensive and high powered big bore rifle they will at least know how to shoot it well. On the other hand though, if I had bought a 500 NE as a first double rifle I know it could do the job if I EVER took it to the field. Even then, I am not comfortable knowing I may have to shoot it more than a few times. I respect your choices and welcome your comments about mine.

Cheers,

Yves


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JabaliHunter
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Re: What caliber for a 1st Double?? [Re: Yves]
      #109111 - 06/07/08 08:43 PM

Well, as .303 is not on the list I have to agree with Yves but I would choose the 7x57R because there is a greater availability of 7mm bullets.

For a first double, you want something that you can shoot ALOT whether at the range or hunting and for me at least that rules out anything 9.3x74 and up. A 9.3x74 would be my choice for general hunting, but not for shooting ALOT and really getting to know the rifle and handling a double.

Another important factor in owning a double is relaoading and working up loads that shoot to the regulation. Therefore having a wider selection of 7mm bullets adds to the choice, variables and fun! Plus its cheaper on both bullets and powder than a .450/.400, which would clearly be the best choice for a first DG double.

Just a few things to consider. Its not an exact science and its the variables that make up part of the fun!


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DUGABOY1
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Re: What caliber for a 1st Double?? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #109114 - 07/07/08 01:30 AM

I voted for the 9.3X74R for a "FIRST" double rifle! My reasoning is that in a lot of cases, people want a double rifle, and change their mind once they get one, and find out the attendant problems this type of firearm often presents! My three favorite chamberings for a double rifle are the 9.3X74R, the 450/400NE 3", and the 500NE. With that in mind, two things seem prudant to me! They are first, and foremost, simply because a person has a burning desire to have a double rifle, doesn't mean that rifle is the best choice for that person. No. two, is most who want a double rifle tend to buy one with a chambering that is too large for practicle heavy use, for general hunting. Over the last fifty years I have talked to a very high number of people who expressed a desire to own a double rifle, and almost without exception, their first choice for chambering was a 600NE, and most of those people had never shot anything larger than a 30-30 saddle carbine, or a bolt actioned 30-06. Can you imagine the reaction to their first shot of that field cannon.

The double rifle is saddled with a learning curve, that requires a lot of shooting to become profecient with it. How many rounds do you think the guy who buys a 600NE double will put through the barrels over the first year? My prediction is, there will be a 600NE double for sale shortly after he fires the first ten rounds. NOW! for the guy who has owned a double before, and has learned the ins, and outs of it's care and feeding,but wants "ONE" double rifle for everything, I would reccomend a 450/400NE 3", with ficility for mounting a QD Illuminated scope. That rifle, like the 9.3X74R will allow you to shoot it a lot, and is better suited for everyday hunting of everything from Jackel, to elephant.

When the new guy finds he doesn't really understand the way a double rifle works, and finds it a frustrating contraption, that they can't make shoot worth beans, he will usually dump the rifle, and go back to an idiot proof bolt rifle, that he can get ammo for at Wal Mart. If he as bought a 470NE,500NE,577NE, or 600NE with a tow bar, and wheels. That dumping will be a loosing proposition for sure, but he'll gladly take the loss.

If, however, he buys a little 9.3X74R double rifle NEW at far less than the cost of anything larger, at least the rifle will get a fair trial, before the divorce, because he will be able to shoot the rifle a lot, at much lower financial pain. If he decides he is not a double rifle man, then the smaller rifle will be far easier to sell, and if he decides he's made the right choice of rifle types, then the little 9.3 double can either be traded in on a larger bore, or kept for his light rifle to back up the bigger double he wants now.

I have always advised against a guy new to double rifles buying a used, are (USED UP) old double rifle, and paying a premium unless he has someone who,is knowledgable, who is willing to help him in picking the right rifle. He can get burned saverely with some of the dolled up junk on he market today. Buy new, and buy small, that way if you change your mind, it is much easier to get out of without financial ruin.

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"


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Omnivorous_Bob
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Re: What caliber for a 1st Double?? [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #109116 - 07/07/08 02:33 AM

"and almost without exception, their first choice for chambering was a 600NE"

Mac, you and I must hang out in different circles! That having been said, 600 doubles are sufficiently rare (and expensive) that there isn't much danger of a new guy buying one until the has throughly sucumbed to the DR bug.

I agree that the 9.3X74R would make a great first caliber. Not so powerful as to be intimidating, not too expensive for a decent 'shooter' quailty gun, and is suited for scoping for those who are transitioning from scoped bolt guns. I think the 375 flanged would be even better (more familiar to most in US) if ammo and brass were readliy available.

After that, I'd say 450/400. A classic caliber but a bit more powder/recoil than some deer/occasional elk hunters may be used to.

And finally, I agree with Tinker that a 22 DR would be and awesome set up! I acquired an Italian 410 a few months back with just such a project in mind, but have been waffling between a 22 Hornet and 22 WRM (with the attendant firing pin work).

--------------------
"If we're not supposed to eat animals, how come they're made out of meat?"


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tinker
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Re: What caliber for a 1st Double?? [Re: Omnivorous_Bob]
      #109117 - 07/07/08 02:44 AM

I am very much enjoying this, I can imagine it will get better and better...



I know for double damn sure my interests are different from most here, but I must admit that I find myself thinking about all of these choices 'hmmmm, that'd be a great rifle to start with...'

To each his own.
Still, I want them all!


--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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DUGABOY1
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Re: What caliber for a 1st Double?? [Re: Omnivorous_Bob]
      #109122 - 07/07/08 03:28 AM

Quote:

"and almost without exception, their first choice for chambering was a 600NE"

Mac, you and I must hang out in different circles! That having been said, 600 doubles are sufficiently rare (and expensive) that there isn't much danger of a new guy buying one until the has throughly sucumbed to the DR bug.




The thing is, you and I know the 600NE is a rare bird, but most of the young guys who have never even seen a real double rifle, simply assume that the biggest thing they have heard of would be the thing to get. They have listened to Mark Sullivan mouth off about his 600NE. As I said that was their first responce,and that never makes sense to anyone who knows anything at all about double rifles. When that is shown to be, not only hard to find, but requires a king's ransom, to obtain,and a mule to pack it, then it is the next thing they have read in a gun rag, or seen on a film, a 470NE. At that point I usually offer to let them shoot a 470NE, or a 500NE. After a couple shots they decide that is a little too big after all!

Quote:

I agree that the 9.3X74R would make a great first caliber. Not so powerful as to be intimidating, not too expensive for a decent 'shooter' quailty gun, and is suited for scoping for those who are transitioning from scoped bolt guns. I think the 375 flanged would be even better (more familiar to most in US) if ammo and brass were readliy available.




That is the fishhook in the pudding, availability of ammo, and componants for the 375 Flanged. That is one of my all time favorites, but like some other chamberings, they are also rare on the market, expensive, and a pain in the butt to load for. For the first timer, the 9.3X74R is a far better choice,for a convencience standpoint.

Quote:

After that, I'd say 450/400. A classic caliber but a bit more powder/recoil than some deer/occasional elk hunters may be used to.




That may be true, but a well ballanced 450/400NE 3" double rifle is far less punishing from recoil that the typical mountain rifle chambered for 338 win mag, or a 340 Wby mag.

Quote:

And finally, I agree with Tinker that a 22 DR would be and awesome set up! I acquired an Italian 410 a few months back with just such a project in mind, but have been waffling between a 22 Hornet and 22 WRM (with the attendant firing pin work).




The .22 lr double is a fine little toy, but I think if you are looking for somthing rare that is the chambering to look for. I don't think a first timer who wants a double rifle is rarely thinking about .22s, but nitro express rounds, and doubt they would pay what it takes to buy a s/s double rifle chambered for .22lr.

If the guy NEW TO DOUBLES where as well versed on double rifles as you and I, they wouldn't have suggested a very large chambering in the first place, you think?

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"


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tinker
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Re: What caliber for a 1st Double?? [Re: Omnivorous_Bob]
      #109123 - 07/07/08 03:42 AM

O'bob-

If that Italian 410 was new and cheap enough, buy another one just like it and have a 2-barrel set.
Don't move the firing pins at all, just set the chambers of the rimfire down juuuust enough to have the strikers hitting the rim of the case, not the center.
All that's needed there is eccentric turning of the barrel journal, then a more judicious job of barrel striking once all's screwed/soldered together.

You'll likely have a wee bit of barrel/lump fitting to do to get both sets of barrels fitting up properly on the same frame, but you'll end up with a 22 AND a 410 double, in a switch barrel set!

Then once you're done you can sell the other stocked receiver on gunbroker (or whatever) as a double rifle project ready-to-go and you'll likely get back most of what you paid for the whole gun in the first place...


Quote:

And finally, I agree with Tinker that a 22 DR would be and awesome set up! I acquired an Italian 410 a few months back with just such a project in mind, but have been waffling between a 22 Hornet and 22 WRM (with the attendant firing pin work).








--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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hoppdoc
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Re: What caliber for a 1st Double?? [Re: Omnivorous_Bob]
      #109133 - 07/07/08 07:01 AM

Mac, I will admit that the macho in me wanted the biggest field piece practical as a newly manufactored Double but the CHEAP in me couldn't handle the $$$$ ticket so I bought one of those cost effective 470 Merkels--Fun but handled like swinging a railroad tie.

I traded up to a 500 Merkel and have been relatively happy since then. Have a quality gun at a reasonable price that will kill anything I point the barrels at if I do my part!! Plenty of smack, balances/handles better, and has enough recoil to give me a senior moment if I don't shoot it properly!! I like it alot!!

Still if I knew what I know now a quality 9.3x74R would have been the first Double in my closet--no doubt at all---

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

Edited by hoppdoc (07/07/08 01:05 PM)


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: What caliber for a 1st Double?? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #109167 - 07/07/08 04:08 PM

I think most guys in Aust and the USA want the classic big bore "African safari" rifle, and so go for a .470 plus or minus.

Maybe later if they go "nuts" like everyone here they get into medium and if "really nuts" small bore calibres.

Many Europeans with driven game hunting for boar, deer, moose etc may start off with a medium to heavy double rifle, and the 9.3x74R is probably the winner for that hunting among other medium calibres.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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tinker
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Re: What caliber for a 1st Double?? [Re: NitroX]
      #109175 - 07/07/08 04:56 PM

He can't be talking about me.



Quote:

...and if "really nuts" small bore calibres...









--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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DUGABOY1
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Re: What caliber for a 1st Double?? [Re: tinker]
      #109210 - 08/07/08 02:55 AM

Quote:

He can't be talking about me.



Quote:

...and if "really nuts" small bore calibres...









--Tinker






--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"


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500grains
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Re: What caliber for a 1st Double?? [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #109212 - 08/07/08 03:49 AM

Doubles are not for everyone. I voted .470 because they seem the easiest to resell.

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