Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact
NitroExpress.com: Boddington on the .35 Whelen

View recent messages : 24 hours | 48 hours | 7 days | 14 days | 30 days | 60 days | More Smilies


*** Enjoy NitroExpress.com? Participate and join in. ***
You are not logged in. [Login] Main Index · Search · Active Topics
New user · Who's Online · FAQ · Calendar

Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Rifles
Previous topic Previous   View all topics Index   Next topic Next   Threaded Mode Threaded  

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | >> (show all)
Charles
.275 member


Reged: 13/12/07
Posts: 55
Loc: Texas
Boddington on the .35 Whelen
      #108693 - 01/07/08 11:42 PM

There has been some discussion on this caliber, so I thought I would post what Boddington said in his Safari Rifles. " I have used the rifle on moose, elk, black bear, and wild boar, and it's one of the surest killers I've ever used. Its 250 grain bullet has the weight and the frontal area, and it does wonderful things without undue recoil and muzzle blast. Out to 200 yards, I would rate it the equal of the .338 Winchester Magnum. It would not be a good choice in open country, but in the mixed thornbush common in much of Africa, it would be ideal."
" Within a few months of its introduction, Remington took some 25,000 orders for .35 Whelen rifles, far more than they were prepared to produce! "
P 46-47. Other interesting comments there.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27097
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: Charles]
      #108694 - 02/07/08 12:34 AM

Cool! - my sentiments exactly, it is a great ctg. Incidently, with 300gr. bullets it about duplicates a quite popular medium bore - the .333 Jeffery.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
albertan
.333 member


Reged: 13/06/06
Posts: 432
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: DarylS]
      #108731 - 02/07/08 11:05 AM

I was the one who posted on Boddington and the .35 Whelen earlier. While I do think the old .35 is a cool caliber it is not, nor will it ever be, the equal to the .338 Winchester at 5 yards or 325 yards. Comparing 250 grain bullets @ 2650 fps versus 2350 fps. A sectional density of .313 versus .279. The .338 will out penetrate it everytime. The .338 will out-penetrate the great .375 H&H as well. That is one of the big reasons for the .338 Winchester's success.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5522
Loc: United States
Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: albertan]
      #108732 - 02/07/08 11:19 AM

Quote:

The .338 will out penetrate it everytime. The .338 will out-penetrate the great .375 H&H as well.



I have shot too many bullets/cartridges head-to-head in test media to make such a statement.

Bullet construction, velocity and caliber all come together to make a bullet penetrate. Just because a .338 bullet has the spec's you identify does not mean it will outpenetrate a .358 bullet, truth be told.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
bigmaxx
.375 member


Reged: 13/06/07
Posts: 660
Loc: Bowling Green KY U.S.A.
Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: 9.3x57]
      #108737 - 02/07/08 12:29 PM

I shoot both the .338 winchester magnum and the .375 ruger. When it comes to things that bite, stomp, gore and such, I will be sticking with the .375 ruger. I have conducted some very informal tests and arrived at that conclusion. I know that ballistics seem comparable, but in my opinion the .375 caliber, whether ruger, or H&H, or one of the other obscure chamberings is a superior dangerous game caliber. The whelen is a caliber I have always been interested in. If I ever find a rifle I like in that caliber I might be tempted to give it a whirl.

--------------------
One day at a time...

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27097
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: albertan]
      #108778 - 03/07/08 01:20 AM

Quote:

I was the one who posted on Boddington and the .35 Whelen earlier. While I do think the old .35 is a cool caliber it is not, nor will it ever be, the equal to the .338 Winchester at 5 yards or 325 yards. Comparing 250 grain bullets @ 2650 fps versus 2350 fps. A sectional density of .313 versus .279. The .338 will out penetrate it everytime. The .338 will out-penetrate the great .375 H&H as well. That is one of the big reasons for the .338 Winchester's success.


: Albertan has a point - based totally on SD and velocity. paper specs rarely produce results in accordance with the numbers, as 9.3x57 found out in his test media.
: 9.3x57 has also found out the 300gr. .375 swaged to .368" and fired from a 9.3 rifle will out penetrate any non FMJ .338 mag load out there and just recently published those results on another forum. Paper specs don't tell the whole story- hardly ever do.
: I have a lot of respect for the 8x68 and similar .338 mag, .35 Whelen, .375 Whelen Imp, 9.3's and .375's. Out to 300 yards on moose, there is little difference in killing power as they'll all drop the moose close to impact if used properly. They'll all leave the bullet underneath the hide on the off side if you want, or exit if that's what you want. One merely picks the appropriate bullet.
: Arguing which round is better based on a couple numbers of sectional density in a day when modern premium bullet designs have negated that system's validity, is non-productive and in error.
: The .35 Whelens I am familiar with run 2,250fps with 300gr. and 2,600fps with 250's. My .375Imp Whelen gets 2,470 with 300's and 2,675fps with 270's. They give up little or nothing to factory .338 Win. Mags. in paper ballistics, but paper ballistics are only the start of the equation today, not the answer. The results are what matters.
; Famed writer and African Hunter, the late Finn Aagard once wrote he saw little if no difference on the African game he shot between the 9.3x62 and the .375H&H. He was using 286gr. at 2,340fps in the 9.3 and 270gr. at 2,700fps or 300gr. at 2,560fps in the .375H&H. On paper, they produce a trememdous difference, but the animals he shot couldn't read.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
albertan
.333 member


Reged: 13/06/06
Posts: 432
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: DarylS]
      #109085 - 06/07/08 10:49 AM

I would like to know what pressures you are running in order to get 2600 fps with a 250 grain bullet out of a .35 Whelen. I do not believe it. I have fired a few Whelens and they came nowhere near 2600 fps and at 300 yards their trajectory was shaped like a rainbow. It is a 250 yard gun.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Con
.333 member


Reged: 24/05/04
Posts: 261
Loc: Victoria
Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: albertan]
      #109112 - 06/07/08 10:59 PM

albertan,
The pressures are probably inline with what can be done in a modern bolt actioned rifle. When Remington introduced the 35Whelen they must have been mindful of older Springfields, M95's etc chambered for the 35Whelen in the 'good ole days' and loaded accordingly. Factory ballistics can certainly be bettered.
Cheers...
Con

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Nakihunter
.375 member


Reged: 13/10/07
Posts: 588
Loc: New Zealand
Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: Con]
      #109152 - 07/07/08 12:02 PM

There was a recent post (by Bob Fawcet?)on the 358 (Handloader article by John Barsness) where the author got 2450fps out of a 358 Win with Tac powder. That is brand new data. About 10 years ago the going wisdom was a max 2250 out of that caliber. The same seems to be case with the Whelan - but you must use the right powder & bullet combination. I believe that the 2600fps with 250 gr bullet is the exceptional max & not a given standard. My 9.3X62 Simson does 2550fps with 250 gr bullets but at low pressures with little case stretching. Barsness drives the same bullet at 2700fps out of his new CZ rifle.

--------------------
Always shoot through the target & not just at it.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Plains99
.300 member


Reged: 10/11/04
Posts: 225
Loc: Dodge City, Kansas, USA
Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: Nakihunter]
      #109197 - 08/07/08 12:58 AM

I think you boys overseas would be better off any day with a 9.3X62 than a .35 Whelen. Simply no advantage to it. I agree that the .338 is a better round than the .35 Whelen but again, I consider the 9.3X62 to be a better all around performer than either. My 2 Cents.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27097
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: Plains99]
      #109201 - 08/07/08 01:30 AM

The 9.3x62 is a 78gr. water capacity case as I measured on 2 fired Sako cases. The Improved .375/06 I shoot with the shoulder moved .030" forward has identical capacity to the 9.3. If you want to compare the two Whelen rounds with the 9.3x62, they must also be on improved cases to make the comparrison fair.
; Note much data has the .338Whelen or .338/06 if you want to call it, running consistantly 100fps ahead of most data for the .35 Whelen. Ever wonder why? The capacities are identical, which means if they are loaded to the same pressure with same weight bullets, the .35 calibre will produce higher velocities, not lower. That's just plain common sense in ballistics.
: With the bullets available today, the .35 is a good 300 yard Moose, Elk and Bear gun, just as the .338/06 is and same with the 9.3x62. I do not believe anyone should be shooting our valuable big game at longer ranges than that and I don't give a crap what calibre you are shooting. Too many things can go wrong just as or fractions of a second before the trigger breaks. Even though the 9.3x62 has greater capacity & therefore the ability to shoot same weight bullets faster, or heavier bullets just as fast, you would be hard pressed to tell the difference between any of them on the same game animal.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Will
.333 member


Reged: 04/02/03
Posts: 303
Loc: Kansas
Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: DarylS]
      #109699 - 14/07/08 09:47 AM

Gee willikers (is that how you spell that?) Bat Man, the 35 Whelen is just super duper. And so much better and worse than every other cartridge!!

--------------------
_________________________________________________
Bill Stewart

Once you have been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Charles
.275 member


Reged: 13/12/07
Posts: 55
Loc: Texas
Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: Charles]
      #109700 - 14/07/08 10:01 AM

Can the 35 Whelen do 2600??? That is the question. The Barnes reloading book lists 2586 for it which translates into just over 3700 pounds of muzzle energy. Should be close enough to 2600 fps for most.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: Charles]
      #109729 - 14/07/08 11:02 PM

I read with great interest the comments on the various calibers..and agree with the comments that there are too many NEW powders and bullets to make any broad based assessment on one calibers superiority over another based on muzzle energy and velocity. Personally, I feel muzzle energy does not give a very accurate read on the calibers ability nor its performance..If that was true, then a 22.250 is just as capable as a 30-06 for larger game based on muzzle enery..(merely an example)..

I was once a believer that speed and muzzle energy were key components to success...not so anymore..don't get me wrong..with the right bullets and conditions and depending on the game I hunt..I still reach for my custom rifles in .257 Weatherby or 300 Ultra-mag...as they are very flat shooter and if I can do my part...will take game past 400 yards easily...however, with all the muzzle energy the 300 Ultra produces ...it is a pretty small bullet when you have something like a hippo of elephant coming at you at less than 20 paces...even though it has about the same or more enery than a .375--as BigMax stated above,,,if me the .375....as has been very apparent to me on numerous species shot...frontal surface area and bullet construction are hugely more important than speed...

Just my opinion...

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Plains99
.300 member


Reged: 10/11/04
Posts: 225
Loc: Dodge City, Kansas, USA
Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: Ripp]
      #112973 - 30/08/08 01:25 AM

I know this thread is pretty much dead but I thought I'd add my .02$. I can't see the appeal of the .35 Whelen compared to the 9.3X62 and now the development of the .376 Steyr and the .375 Ruger. I've hunted with them all and the Whelen has very little to offer in comparison.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5522
Loc: United States
Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: Plains99]
      #112992 - 30/08/08 11:09 AM

Here's a thought.

Since the bullet is the thing, a guy can get a simple set of drawing dies from Lee Precision and shoot 9.3 bullets in a .35 Whelen, reducing them from .366 to .358, and also of course still shoot .358's.

Moving up a caliber, I do this with my 9.3x57's, shooting .375 bullets that are resized to fit my 9.3's as well as 9.3's of course.

Case capacity is so similar that what the 9.3x62 can do the Whelen should be able to do, or nearly so, with small enough differences to be hardly noticed by game.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
shinz
.300 member


Reged: 11/05/08
Posts: 135
Loc: New Zealand
Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: 9.3x57]
      #112996 - 30/08/08 03:06 PM

Poor old 35 Whelen eh!, you either love it or hate it, but I would say the only real difference between this & the 9.3x62 in the field is the factory loads it comes in. This is not to denigrate the 9.3 in anyway at all before its adherents leap down my throat, but a 35W with such bullets as 280gr Swift A-frames & 310 grain Woodleighs at respectable velocities is going to cut the mustard which ever way you look at it. Double Tap load the Woodleighs SN & FMJ (at special request) to 2300fps, at this speed & with that wonderful SD they would penetrate beautifully methinks.

Hell they even look the part.
Steve

Edited by shinz (31/08/08 10:35 AM)

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Mike_Bailey
.400 member


Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 2289
Loc: GB
Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: shinz]
      #113000 - 30/08/08 08:53 PM

Why bother with any of them when you can get a .375 H&H (rimmed or rimless) ? best, Mike

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
hoppdoc
.400 member


Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #113004 - 30/08/08 09:36 PM

The Whelen kills, the 9.3x62 kills, both on standard length actions.

I would now lean toward the 9.3 for longer shots(never owned one)but the .358 Swift in a Whelen will kill 'em with authority if you do your part!!

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5522
Loc: United States
Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: hoppdoc]
      #113027 - 31/08/08 03:30 AM

Remember, if having fun is any part of this discussion, and plinking is, too, you can shoot .38 bullets in your .35 Whelen, and plink with cheap bulk Remington 200's.

AND shoot resized 9.3's.

I'm a 9.3 fan but the more I think about it, especially since getting this resizing thing down, the .35 Whelen looks pretty darn convincing.

...unless a fellow is taking it to Africa for DG where the 9.3x62 is legal minimum.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
BFaucett
.333 member


Reged: 13/01/04
Posts: 452
Loc: Houston, Texas
Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: 9.3x57]
      #113076 - 31/08/08 12:37 PM

I'm a big fan of medium bore rifles in general. I have a .338 Win Mag and a .375 H&H but as I get older (I'm 54) I find myself becoming a little more sensitive to recoil and to rifle weight. I've really come to enjoy what I call the mild-mannered medium bores such as the .35 Whelen and the 9.3x62.

I haven't hunted anything with the .35 Whelen yet but I have done some plains game hunting with my 9.3x62. My 9.3x62 is a CZ 550. I currently own two rifles in .35 Whelen. One is a Rem 700 CDL and the other is a recently acquired (this week) new stainless Ruger M77 Hawkeye. Rather than try to decide between the .35 Whelen and the 9.3x62, I simply chose to own both! Both are classic cartridges.

Personally, I think the .35 Whelen is closer ballistically to the 9x57 Mauser and .350 Rigby Magnum than to the 9.3x62 but that's not a bad place to be at all! Both the 9x57 Mauser and .350 Rigby Magnum had fine reputations in Africa as general purpose medium bores.

Cartridges such as the .338-06, .35 Whelen, and 9.3x62 may not have what are considered today to be "flashy" ballistics, but they all seem to get the job done without a lot of recoil and muzzle blast.



A ballistics table that may be of interest:



Cheers!
-Bob F.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Con
.333 member


Reged: 24/05/04
Posts: 261
Loc: Victoria
Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: BFaucett]
      #113175 - 01/09/08 10:35 AM

I'm not as 'old' as Bob F but I agree with his sentiments on the mild mediums. My 350RemMag is about the limit of where I can shoot effectively with nil practice ... I love my 458AccRel (500gr at 2230fps) ... but my 35's are easier to shoot overall.

The ability to use a range of pistol projectiles is important to me, hence why I prefer the 35s to the 9.3s. I suppose in the final analysis though, any cartridge moving a projectile of around 250gr at around 2400fps is going to do a pretty bang-up job on 95% of the worlds game animals.

Now ... does anyone have the case dimensions of the 350G&H magnum ... seems like a nice cartridge in need of resurrection.
Cheers...
Con

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
BFaucett
.333 member


Reged: 13/01/04
Posts: 452
Loc: Houston, Texas
Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: Con]
      #113218 - 01/09/08 03:01 PM

Quote:

Now ... does anyone have the case dimensions of the 350G&H magnum ... seems like a nice cartridge in need of resurrection.
Cheers...
Con



I've never been able to locate a cartridge drawing of the .350 G&H Mag but I've read that it was simply the .375 H&H Mag case necked down to .358" caliber. I'm not sure if any other dimensions were changed.

"In 1925 Griffin & Howe introduced its .35 Griffin & Howe Magnum caliber, which was based on the Holland & Holland .375 case."
from: http://www.griffinhowe.com/history.cfm

-Bob F.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Con
.333 member


Reged: 24/05/04
Posts: 261
Loc: Victoria
Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: BFaucett]
      #113265 - 02/09/08 12:30 AM

Bob F,
It's the 'based on' that worries me. I believe there may actually be two 350 G&H Magnums ... an improved version the dimensions of which are given in Ken Howell's 'Designing and Forming Custom Cartridges' and erronously named as the 350 G&H Magnum (dimensions like a 35/8mmRemMag ... I have heard of a 350 G&H Magnum Improved) plus the 350 G&H Magnum which is indeed simply a 375H&H necked down to 35cal ... these dimensions being pretty much what Cartridges of the World provide. The 400Whelen was also 'based on the 30/06' but the shoulder diameter was the fly in the ointment to anyone that simply opened up a 30/06 to 0.411". Not sure whether the 350 G&H also had subtle differences, but she'd be a sweet heart feeding and surely worthy of a resurrection to a 35cal nut like me.
Cheers...
Con

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
BFaucett
.333 member


Reged: 13/01/04
Posts: 452
Loc: Houston, Texas
Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: Con]
      #113269 - 02/09/08 02:19 AM

Con,

Here's a scan, in pdf format, of an article by Ken Waters about the .350 G&H Magnum. The original date of the article isn't stated.

http://www.bunduki.com/bob/articles/350GHMag.pdf

In the article, he states that it is simply the .375 H&H necked down. Unfortunately, there is not a cartridge drawing in the article. Anyway, I thought you might enjoy the article.

Also, here's a scan of a page from my reprint/copy of the Griffin & Howe 1930 catalog showing the .350 G&H Mag:

http://www.bunduki.com/bob/articles/350GHMag-GH1930catalog.jpg


Quality Cartridge here in the States makes brass and ammo for the .350 G&H Mag:

http://www.qual-cart.com/350_G-H_Mag.htm

Cheers!
-Bob F.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | >> (show all)


Previous topic Previous   View all topics Index   Next topic Next   Threaded Mode Threaded  

Extra information
0 registered and 163 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:   

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating:
Topic views: 30289

Rate this topic

Jump to

Contact Us NitroExpress.com

Powered by UBB.threads™ 6.5.5


Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact


Copyright 2003 to 2011 - all rights reserved