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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles

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450_366
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Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #155444 - 04/03/10 08:44 AM

They got it wrong, most do prefer a longer action, dispite the rumor.

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"


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FATBOY404
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Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #155455 - 04/03/10 11:09 AM

I agree with you Mike. I have never short cycled a magnum action in the heat of the moment and as far as weight is cocerned most of us are 10 kg over weight so why worry if your magnum action is a pound heavier.
Having said that if I wanted another BG rifle to go with my 404 it would probably be a 416 Taylor.

--------------------
"WHATEVER BLOWS YOUR HAIR BACK"


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010166
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Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: FATBOY404]
      #155458 - 04/03/10 12:04 PM

I am suprised no one has mentioned the .416 Hoffman. The cases are easily made from .416 Rem Mag brass, and it has pretty impressive balistics. After reading the coments above the .416 Taylor really does seem popular. I will still stick to my .404 as it will do anything a .416 will do.

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Con
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Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: 010166]
      #155473 - 04/03/10 03:33 PM

Quote:

I will still stick to my .404 as it will do anything a .416 will do.




Hey ... I reckon exactly the same about my 458AccRel (shortened 300RUM wildcat opened to 45cal). I can get upto 2550fps from a 400gr, 2230fps without breaking a sweat from a 500gr ... in a standard length unmodified Ruger action as a 2+1.

I cant see the reason to have 416s when a 45 can do it just as easily.

If I had to pick a 416 ... it'd be the 416Taylor. Odd how the smaller case polls better than the larger 416Rem and 416Ruger.
Cheers...
Con


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DarylS
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Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #155513 - 05/03/10 04:39 AM

Sarg - For me, the .416 Ruger, having 6gr. more capacity than a H&H case, has more capacity than needed to get 2,400fps with a 400gr. bullet - is only one reason I wouldn't choose it.

Besides, I like making my own stuff & turning the belts off .338 or .458 brass is easy-peasy and dirt cheap - too, any belted brass will do. I don't have to buy Hornady 'Ruger .375 or .416 brass' - which will not likely be available here (if ever, in bags for handloading) for another 2 years or more. Having to buy ammo at $75.00 to $90.00 for 20 just doesn't turn my crank - waste of money - but picking it up once fired at the range, being able to use anything from .264 Win. and larger in belted cases or being 'saved' for me by 1/2 doz. to a dozen other shooters does.

Free beats $$ anytime. Alows more powder in the vault and more bullets in the cupboard for loading.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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szihn
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Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: DarylS]
      #155617 - 06/03/10 09:40 AM

I also like the Taylor above all others
True, there are bigger and faster 416s out there, but to me that's not the point.
I love the ballistics of a 416 bullet of 400 grains going 2350 FPS from the muzzle. That's the same as the original 416 Rigby.
But the Taylor does it from a standard size rifle action and with inexpensive components. The rifles I have made in the Taylor carry nicer then the bigger magnum actions do and they kill very well. If you have for example, $2500 to spend on a rifle and you put $1200 into an action you have only $1300 left over for a stock, a barrel, sights, bases and rigs if you want them, a pad, and ALL the gunsmithing
Now a Taylor can be made on a 98 Mauser with an excellent action for dangerous game, but you will only have $150 to $200 in that action. So that leaves a LOT more money to spend on wood and gunsmithing.
In a nut shell, a $2500 416 Taylor made on a Mauser is a LOT nicer then a $2500 416 Rigby built on about anything, just because on the bigger fatter shells, you are going to eat up a lot of cash just buying parts. The difference in the "grade" of the rifle is always going to be more in the gunsmithing, and less in the parts. Anyone can buy parts, but to build them into a masterpiece is all about the skill.


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Reggie
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Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: Will]
      #155674 - 07/03/10 09:41 AM

Quote:

Shinz,

I can get 2400 fps with a 400 gr. bullet in the Taylor but I can't get the bullet seated down to the cannalure. As such, the bullet sticks out of the case a bit, but it doesn't matter. As the rifle recoils, the bullets hit the front of the magazine box and hence the bullet isn't going anywhere since the powder is quite compressed to begin with.

There is a simple way of estimating bullet velocities for different bullet weights. I have never seen it "published" anywhere but it will get you in the ball park.

Making the assumption that the cartridge case holds so much energy the muzzle energy of different weight bullets will be approximately the same. The heavier the bullet the less powder is typically used, but for estimating velocities one can assume the same powder charge and hence the same amount of chemical energy.

In the csse of a 400 gr. bullet in the 416 Rem. at 2400 fps, the vel. of a 450 gr. bullet is found from equating muzzle energies,

(400)(2400)^2 = (450)(V)^2

V = 2262 fps.

Hence, I would expect to get about 2250 fps for a 450 gr. bullet in the 416 RM.

If you do this for the loads in a reloading manual or in the ammo manufacturer's catalogs you will see this to be true.




Bill -

Have you tried any of the 350gr. Speer Hot Core bullets? With these and 70.0gr. R-15 on top of a Fed 215 magnum primer, I get 2350fps. velocity, great accuracy and impressive performance.


Reggie


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ovny
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Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #155698 - 07/03/10 07:32 PM

I like very much 416 Rigby. It is a classic cartridge that never disappoints.

Oscar.

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I am Spanish


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Rule303
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Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: ovny]
      #155788 - 08/03/10 11:44 PM

I'd go with the Rigby. Relatively cheap rifle, $1500 for a CZ550. The nostalgia is part of it. As mentioned earlier the recoil is more of a push then a sharp kick. I have fired a 416 Taylor- beautiful rifle and a good cartridge but it does push back sharper than the Rigby. I would think this should not be a problem.

Greg


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reflex264
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Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: Ripp]
      #159890 - 03/05/10 01:37 PM

I have a Rigby and Taylor and really like them both. The Rigby with handloads has no problem getting 400grs out at 2500fps. The Taylor will get them out at 2400fps but I have found that loading them 2350fps using IMR4320 lets me crimp in the groove and Doesn't show any pressure problems. I have shot it on really hot days without a hitch. I guess I can't decide between the two but if forced I will have to say the Taylor. reflex264

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Brazos_Jack
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Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: 375RugerNo1]
      #160142 - 08/05/10 08:11 PM

A-Pick any one .416 cal cartridge - .416 Remington Magnum

B-State why you would pick this cartridge over the others.
-My retirement years will include a lot of traveling hunts, including a couple to Africa. No other .416 (or .400 or .404) comes close to the availability of the .416 RM in places you might need one - Like Africa, Australia, or Alaska. Even the .416 Rigby is a far distant 2nd place. Loose your luggage with your ammo on your way to Africa and with any of the others you are probably SOL.

C-What type of gun would you purchase or chamber it in. Blaser R93 Professional

From what I've heard and read, any .416 that can muster anywhere above 2150 is good to go and exceeding 2500 can hurt penetration due to bullet problems. So the Taylor, or even the old .450-.400 are fine performance wise. The Ruger looks like a good, well thought out design and the .400 H&H is decidedly better is every detail than any other I've seen.

But the .416 Rem. has no issues, having enough case taper for the pressure it runs to assure reliable extraction in any properly built and maintained rifle in any ambient temperatures you'll ever encounter.

The .30-.338 magnum and the .308 Norma Magnum are both better cartridge designs than the .300 Win Mag. But I would have no problem finding some .300 Win Mag in Jo'berg. Not so the other two.

Unless you never hunt more than 30 minutes from your reloading bench, always pick the most widely available cartridge in a given class.


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DarylS
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Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: Brazos_Jack]
      #160154 - 08/05/10 11:28 PM

.416 Taylor - belt turned off - never mentioned this before - well, maybe I have. Easy to chamber- just use a .416 Rem reamer and hold the reamer back for a 1.5" case. Easy peasy chambering. No belt and better dead fit to modern brass.
Same loading data as Taylor, and no unsightly belt that's doing nothing for the round.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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bonanza
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Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: 375RugerNo1]
      #160156 - 09/05/10 12:29 AM

.416 Remington so I can get headstamped cases.

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"


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DarylS
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Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: bonanza]
      #160176 - 09/05/10 10:57 AM

Interesting point. I suppose that would be good for some wishing comformity.

I've been shooting non-correct headstamp cases for so many years, I don't even think of them any more. My first wildcat, a .257 Ackley Improved, had 6mm Rem, 7x57 Mauser and 8x47 Mauser headstamped cases for the three different bullet weights I used, one for each. My .458 2" had .264 WinMag to .458 Win mag and every make and headstamp in between - 7mm Mag, .300 Win Mag, .308 Norma Mag., .300 wTBY Mag., .350 Rem Mag. and .338 Win Mag and all different mades as well. I found the .458 did not care what make they were - still plunked them into tiny groups.
For the .416, I'd probably stick with .338
Win. Mag or .458 Win. mag. - or both - each for different bullet weights.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Brazos_Jack
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Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: DarylS]
      #160190 - 09/05/10 02:37 PM

I haven't heard of it being an issue yet. But I would rather have what is stamped on the brass match what is stamped on the rifle barrel when passing through customs inspection in an African country. I already have an official looking label I can print out so that at least the ammo box label matches the rifle barrel.

Brazos Jack


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88MauSporter
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Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #160191 - 09/05/10 03:01 PM

XAUSA, Nice big game rifle. Be proud.

I will go with the standard .404 Jeffery. I little too big and a lot of case capacity to powder charge. Keeps the pressure down in those hot climates. Like the ORIGINAL .375 H&H.
Let us know how it perfoms on big game.

--------------------
"A hunter should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everthing goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." 88MauSporter


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DarylS
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Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: 88MauSporter]
      #160208 - 10/05/10 12:38 AM

With the powders that are available today - temperature is a non-event as to pressure.

I'll never get to Africa, so customs problems are also a non-event. Love my wildcats.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Rule303
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Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: DarylS]
      #160283 - 11/05/10 09:26 PM

Hate to disagree but even with modern powders temp has to be watched esp if you are running near max loads. Load up a some of rounds with ADI, Hodgon powderX2 and 2 with win ball powder. fire one of each. Then hold the others in your hands until the powder has had time to warm and fire them. I think you will find a difference in the recoil of the one with the win powder.

Cheers
Greg


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Ben
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Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: Rule303]
      #160285 - 11/05/10 09:42 PM

I have really enjoyed using my .416 Rigby, but don't have any experience with anything else. I think a weakened magazine spring is the cause of my current feeding problems with bullets on the right-hand-side of the magazine.

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Schauckis
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Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: Ben]
      #160369 - 13/05/10 06:21 AM

.416 Wea Mag for no reason at all.
Make the rifle a laminated or plastic stock Wea MkV for durability and usability.

Then again, the .416 Rem Mag will do anything asked to do and it's more gun than I can handle.
My friend is plenty pleased with his Sako .416 RM and despite it being quite a light gun the recoil isn't too bad at all.
When shooting a big giraffe bull I borrowed the PH's Winchester in .416 RM and the results left nothing to be desired.
Add the good availability of rifles and ammo and it makes a good case or itself, for sure.

- Lars/Finland

--------------------
A.k.a. Bwana One-Shot


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Reggie
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Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #161552 - 06/06/10 07:58 AM

TAYLOR!

Plain and simple - it does the job!!!

If you need more than the Taylor, you either need high explosives or you need to reconsider your hunting skills.

Reggie


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Ben
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Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: Reggie]
      #161558 - 06/06/10 08:34 AM

Although, Reggie, there are those who argue that a fellow doesn't really need anything beyond this-or-that cartridge way below a .416 Taylor! Shooting big bores isn't so much about hunting skills as about fun. Cheers.

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tophet1
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Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: Ben]
      #161563 - 06/06/10 09:43 AM

I agree 100% Reggie. Which is why I'll always hunt with my 9.3x62. Having said that I've just ordered a CZ550 in .416 Rigby and it will be nothing but fun, noise and recoil (evil grin).

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vapodog
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Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: tophet1]
      #161564 - 06/06/10 09:58 AM

416 Ruger.....a bit more "oomph" than the Taylor but it's a standard vs a wildcat....

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375shooter
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Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: vapodog]
      #161572 - 06/06/10 11:47 AM

I have a .416 Rigby and love it. It has a rich history with a superb reputation. I wouldn't want to be without one. I've had 400 gr. Hornady's moving along at 2700 fps, but my normal working load is 2400. It's very manageable at this velocity. I never shot anything larger than a black bear with it, although I would love to hunt elephant and buffalo.

I think the .416 Ruger is a well-balanced cartridge. IMO, it has the perfect overall length and case capacity for the caliber plus it's beltless.

--------------------
Boresighter Rifle Scopes


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