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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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FrankMartinez
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Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #137794 - 23/06/09 03:31 AM

Here are some comparison photos and a link to information about them.
http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4711043/m/769108843


My new favorite is the .416 AR

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szihn
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Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: FrankMartinez]
      #137800 - 23/06/09 04:25 AM

Taylor

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500Nitro
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Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: szihn]
      #137801 - 23/06/09 04:27 AM


416 Taylor.

Does it all in a short action, brass readily available.

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Der_Jaeger
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Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: 375RugerNo1]
      #142141 - 17/09/09 04:46 AM



More fodder for the .416 debate!

http://www.rifleshootermag.com/featured_rifles/RS_onetwopunch_091109WO/index.html

--------------------

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Sarg
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Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: Der_Jaeger]
      #142146 - 17/09/09 07:59 AM

Yes the Taylor was the way , but now I think the 416 Ruger will kill it off , even I might get one if Ruger does not hurry up and make a 458 Ruger or a 458 Win in their new Ruger Hawkeye Alaskan , I would perfer a Camo Laminated stock as on the Ruger Predator how ever !

This rifle & caliber is a little wonder for the average Joe Big Game hunter IMHO !

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Kalunga
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Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: Sarg]
      #142148 - 17/09/09 09:17 AM

I love my .416 Rigby and can`t imagine that the more modern competitors will beat it in real live performance.
Especially in the hot climate of the African bush the low gas pressure of the Rigby is a good insurance against serious problems.
Just MHO.

Kalunga

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Tatume
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Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: Kalunga]
      #142149 - 17/09/09 09:33 AM

Rigby

--------------------
Take care, Tom
NRA Life Member

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DarylS
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Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: Kalunga]
      #142153 - 17/09/09 10:56 AM

Quote:

I love my .416 Rigby and can`t imagine that the more modern competitors will beat it in real live performance.
Especially in the hot climate of the African bush the low gas pressure of the Rigby is a good insurance against serious problems.
Just MHO.

Kalunga



The low gas pressure of the Rigby is not needed nowadays. The Brits used huge cases to lower pressure due to the instability of the powder they used, ie: Cordite.

Today's powders allow safe maximum loads in smaller cases that duplicate the reduced pressure loads of the huge Brit brass, using less powder and giving less recoil. The Taylor will duplicate Rigby factory ammo and therefore the end results will be the same, as long as the more heavily recoiling Rigby is as user friendly as a Taylor can be.

Today, using that huge case is a waste of money in action size and powder expenditure. Being a free-world in our areas allows us to use whatever we want - hence our acceptance of whatever turns your crank!!

Go for it.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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9.3x57
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Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: DarylS]
      #142160 - 17/09/09 12:21 PM

I cannot at this point see that I would have a need for a .416, but reading about them and speaking to those who own them and need them convinces me that I agree with Daryl. Each one is splendid in its own right. They are all really superb cartridges, with the downsides of one being the selling features of another.

I do know which I'd go with, tho, and not because it is "superior" but rather because it "Does it all in a short action, brass readily available".

Sounds familiar, huh??

Thanks 500.

I gotta agree, as much as I like the history of the Rigby and the others for various reasons, I know me and I know I'd pick the one I could shoot for cheapest, and the Taylor would do it best in that regard.

I also like the fact that the Taylor with its small case would likely be very easy to work up light loads; 300's or 400's at 2000 fps would make great Bear Med'cine and the gun could be made very light to handle such loads, too.

I think it was Our Marrakai who has a Taylor Meat Gun that he shoots something like a 400/2250 load in that he says kills all very well indeed.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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Der_Jaeger
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Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #142188 - 17/09/09 09:27 PM


My pick is the .416 Weatherby because I already own one and find the cartridge amazing. If I were to buy another, I would probably go with the .416 Remington. I would consider a ".416 RUM" if they ever make one, which is doubtful. By the way, I am not a reloader so those factors do not play a role in my decision making.

--------------------

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Tatume
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Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: Der_Jaeger]
      #142189 - 17/09/09 09:41 PM

The low-pressure cartridges like the 416 Rigby have a different recoil signature. The recoil is not as sharp and quick. I find it more comfortable. As a single-shot aficionado, action length has no importance to me. Thus, I prefer the 416 Rigby over the others.

--------------------
Take care, Tom
NRA Life Member

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9.3x57
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Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: Tatume]
      #142193 - 17/09/09 10:40 PM

Quote:

The low-pressure cartridges like the 416 Rigby have a different recoil signature. The recoil is not as sharp and quick. I find it more comfortable.



I have heard this before. Seems totally plausible. I know the phenomenon can even occur in the same cartridge depending on powder type. It is obvious in the .44 Magnum where achieving 1100 fps with 240 grain bullets produces noticeably different recoil depending on whether Unique or 2400 powders are used. Interestingly, tho there is more powder mass with the 2400 and theoretically the recoil should be heavier, the use of the fast Unique causes a very sharp snap that I find much less comfortable.

An interesting test would be to hand a few shooters the Rigby and Taylor running at the same velocities and see who likes what.

If an honest 2400+ fps is demanded, it seems that might crowd out some Taylors, yes? Seems like I read some can make the speed nicely and others have trouble getting there.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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Ripp
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Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: Der_Jaeger]
      #142197 - 17/09/09 11:17 PM

Quote:


My pick is the .416 Weatherby because I already own one and find the cartridge amazing. If I were to buy another, I would probably go with the .416 Remington. I would consider a ".416 RUM" if they ever make one, which is doubtful. By the way, I am not a reloader so those factors do not play a role in my decision making.



Why don't you make up one--the .416 RUM would be an amazing caliber --actually have thought about doing that myself..have used all the RUM's with amazing results..have used the 300RUM the most---with 200gr A-Frames..amamzing caliber.

As you stated., pretty sure Remington is not going to do it--just not enough market for it..

After reading this thread though, have to admit the Taylor interests me a bit as well...

so many cartridges, so little time...

RIpp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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Kalunga
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Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: DarylS]
      #142199 - 17/09/09 11:42 PM

Quote:


The low gas pressure of the Rigby is not needed nowadays. The Brits used huge cases to lower pressure due to the instability of the powder they used, ie: Cordite.



I am Fritz not Brits javascript:void(0) !

Quote:


Today's powders allow safe maximum loads in smaller cases that duplicate the reduced pressure loads of the huge Brit brass, using less powder and giving less recoil.



I was talking about real life performance and I will never forget the experience a hunter I know made with a .416 Rem. in Benin. He took a shot at a buffalo that lost his sense of humour and charged instantly..... The problem then was that the action of his rifle didn`t open due to excessive gas pressure. These are the kind of problems I was talking about.

Kalunga

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Huvius
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Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: Ripp]
      #142200 - 17/09/09 11:47 PM

I like the Rigby mostly for the sake of nostalgia.

A couple questions though:
Why is it assumed that you need a magnum action for the Rigby? (Selby's was on a standard length action)
And, if it can all be done with a smaller case capacity, then, why is the .338 Lapua such a hit?

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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9.3x57
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Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: Huvius]
      #142201 - 18/09/09 12:05 AM

Quote:

And, if it can all be done with a smaller case capacity



Pressure for pressure with the same bullets, it can't of course.

That's why they ALL have great appeal.

However, I'd be interested to know the consensus of whether the lengthened actions should be used for loads developing the same max working pressures as those generated by the .416 Weatherby and Remington. Not whether the action will blow up, but whether the action should be subjected to top pressure loads as a steady diet.

The .416 Rem would also be appealing to me...as it has cheap components {cases} easily available. In fact, it would seem the .416 REM would appeal to all side best as far as pure practicality is concerned; cheap cases, top velocities.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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DarylS
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Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: Huvius]
      #142202 - 18/09/09 12:12 AM

All of the factory .416 Rigby's I know of, are on long actions and expensive rifles.

In the .416 Taylor, a 400gr. bullet driven by 70-odd grains of powder is preferable to me and my current recoil sensitivness over a 400gr. bullet driven by 100-odd grains of powder for the same speed. Guess I'm a bit soft in my old age.
I know that in North America on even the big bears, nothing past 52gr. to 58gr. of powder driving a 350gr. or 400gr. bullet at 2,000fps to 2,100fps is required. Hmmmm sounds quite similar to the .450/400, doesn't it.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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9.3x57
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Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: DarylS]
      #142208 - 18/09/09 12:49 AM

I believe Huvius is correct.

Were the standard actions commonly opened up not just for .375 but also .416?

Also, Selby is a South Paw but seemed to do OK with the wrong side bolt handle. We Lefty's must be creative, ya'know, living in a discriminatory Right-Hand World as we do...

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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DarylS
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Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: FrankMartinez]
      #142210 - 18/09/09 01:02 AM

Quote:

Here are some comparison photos and a link to information about them.
http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4711043/m/769108843


My new favorite is the .416 AR





I like the AR & uit's looks, but it has more capacity than I need.

After some decades of using belted cases from the 6.5 Mag on up, I've come to the conclusion that any new rifle I make up for a necked and belted case will be chambered for that case with the belt removed. I do prefer rimmless rounds and even slightly rebated rims to belts as I did with the .450 Alaskan to .458 Alaskan. Trimming belts off is an easy chore with a small lathe or electric drill in a bench vice - seconds is all it takes.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Sarg
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Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: DarylS]
      #142229 - 18/09/09 06:47 AM

Thats all very well , but no need for a Wildcat now with the beltless , "cheap" , powerfull & avaiable 416 Ruger !

Have you guys read up on it at all ?

I think you may not have from reading your posts !

You can rechamber a 416 Taylor to 416 Ruger as well , will take 10 years to be ever where no doubt .

If you knew about the Ruger , why would you not pick that , other than romance ?

Too new,untested, ?

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500Nitro
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Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: Sarg]
      #142230 - 18/09/09 06:54 AM


Reports coming back that the 338 RCM aren't getting the velocities stated in the catalogues.

So the question is, are the velocities going to be the
same in the 416 ?


Comes down to my original point, Readily available brass - 416R - N', cheap brass - 416R = No. Plenty of 375H&H brass around.

What does the 416R give you that the other's don't,
except a new factory gun ?

Romance, short action - shouldn;t be a factor.

Short action - no action (except the Magnum Mauser) has ever slowed me up in fast shooting (and I have used a 375H&H Action a lot where 20 shots in 1 - 2 minutes was needed) and I don't think the short action would have made me any faster.

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Yochanan
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Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #142231 - 18/09/09 07:48 AM

There can be only one classic - 416 Rigby. Load it hot if you prefer or keep it at standard specification with low pressure. Personally I find the recoil is becoming a bit sharp when a 410grain bullet is loaded to 2400fps plus.

Factory fodder available from Federal, Norma, Kynoch, Hornady and Winchester.

Magnum mauser action, because, they are so damn gorgeous.

--------------------
© "I have never been able to appreciate 'shock' as applied to killing big game. It seems to me that you cannot kill an elephant weighing six tons by ´shock´unless you advocate the use of a field gun." - W.D.M. Bell: Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter.

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doubleriflejack
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Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: FrankMartinez]
      #142234 - 18/09/09 08:08 AM

Hard to beat the original old classic .416 Rigby. For double rifles, the latest Kreighoff creation, the .500/.416 Rigby is outstanding, with performance same as Rigby, but with less pressure, making it more desirable for double rifles that are not as strong as bolt rifles.

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Reggie
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Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: 375RugerNo1]
      #155438 - 04/03/10 06:05 AM

Pat -

IF you reload, there is no better choice than the .416 Taylor.

Even though the Taylor has passed muster with SAAMI, there only seems to be one manufacturer (A-Square) that has been interested in putting this cartridge out to market - at a considerable price!

BUT, when reloading comes into play, you can shoot the Taylor well and (relatively) cheaply, with everything from the high dollar jacketed rounds to very good (and inexpensive) cast bullets.

Anything that walks, craws, flies or slithers on this Earth can be taken easily with the Taylor!

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Mike_Bailey
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Re: Pick a .416 Cal cartridge! Which would you go for? [Re: Reggie]
      #155443 - 04/03/10 08:20 AM

Can someone out there tell me what the big deal is between "short" and "long" actions ?? I have never been a bolt fan other than Mannlichers but why do people care if it's a long or short ? Why do ammo manufacturers keep inventing cartridges that fit in "short" actions ? I must have read 200+ shooting/reloading/hunting books but have never got my head around this.If you want a rifle in a long cartridge buy an rifle with a suitable action ! Please help someone, regards, Mike

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